[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Fidelia]

The answer to the first sentence is the part that I bolded. We're not all hardasses. It looks to me like most ESTJs you've interacted with have been a bit unhealthy. For example, when healthy ESTJs are in arguments, they do look at other points of view... if you have evidence with you. If it looks like they're refusing to consider the other side of the argument, it's that they take debate very seriously and if/when they lose debates, they take it very personally and get embarrassed and they feel it in their soft marshmallow center but refuse to show that. In contrast, from my experience with INxJs, those types sometimes can be VERY judgmental, and REFUSE to accept factual evidence contrary to their beliefs, whereas xSTJs, technically, will change their minds when given significant, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
Also, if it looks like they're "trying to shove their beliefs down your throat", it's because they don't think of them as "beliefs", but instead think of them as "the right thing". They're just trying to help ... in a very untactful way, lol

She speaks the truth! I think the ESTJs I've met are actually much more openminded than me in some respects.

 

[simulatedworld]

Word, you just have to get ESTJs out of Te mode for a minute, get them to trust you enough to let their Si talk to you. You'd be surprised how intellectually curious and open to unique subjective experience they can be.

The trick is getting them out of Te mode!

 

[EJCC]

@fidelia: Yeah, funny how that works! It's been that way with every INxJ I've ever known. Can't figure it out. And you know, not that many people seem to recognize that fact!

@sim: True dat. But when you get them into Ne mode... THEN things get good.
Edit: Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I'm not in "Te mode" for the majority of the time. But the way I imagine "Te mode" is a humorless, bossy sort of mode. I dunno. You watched my video, right? That was pretty much my default mode, and... eh, I'm overthinking this. Never mind.

 

[Fidelia]

I know, we seem to fly under the radar because we're not as vocal. However, I think we're more stubborn and have spent time building intricate structures to hang our information are so we're very reluctant to change it unless there's an imperative reason to. (Maybe it's the Ti?)

What makes you open to considering new information when you hear it? I've seen ESTJs change their minds, but I don't know why they did.

 

[EJCC]

What makes you open to considering new information when you hear it? I've seen ESTJs change their minds, but I don't know why they did.

I guess it comes down to wanting to know the truth. It feels good to know the facts, and know the right way to do things. Also, it's good to avoid the embarrassment that comes from being proven wrong, lol...

 

[Fidelia]

What about stuff that can't be known as being objectively true? For example, I remember telling an ESTJ some things I believed about education. He seemed skeptical initially, but I later heard him explaining it to someone else as his own adopted idea.

 

[EJCC]

^ It's a pretty straightforward thought process when that happens. It happens to me a lot, too (mostly with philosophical topics and occasionally with religion) - I'll hear someone say their theory on an issue, or something else that's not concrete/objective like you said, and I say to myself "Hey, that makes more sense than what I thought previously. I'll go with it." And that's that.

Although what'll happen on the outside will just look like this:

Person: "Here's my theory: _______."
ESTJ: "Oh, okay. Huh. "
^but the ESTJ is, on the inside, replacing their previously held idea with the new one.

 

[Fidelia]

See that would never happen with me. But you described the process exactly! I just never would have guessed that was what was happening in their heads. Thanks!

 

[Tamske]

@sim: True dat. But when you get them into Ne mode... THEN things get good.

How do you get them out of Ne mode when they're struck there?

 

[EJCC]

How do you get them out of Ne mode when they're struck there?

"Stop being such a goofball! There's WORK to be done!!!" Oh wait, that's what I say to xNTPs, not the other way around...

What would be a good example of an ESTJ stuck in Ne mode?

 

[Tamske]

Husband comes home on Friday... "WEEKEND!" If there's no housework to do (well he IS an ESTJ after all) he's in totally relaxed weekend mode, talking nonsense the whole time.
I (being a real ENTP) have always still some work to do, mixing it up with play... and if deadline comes, I need to keep TWO Nes silent!
(of course, the "right" solution to this is doing the work first and enjoy the weekend...)

 

[EJCC]

^ I'd recommend, if he has any work to do, saying "Hey, let's set aside an hour or two to do our work, and then when we're done, we can do fun things!" And then you can both do your work at the same time, so he won't be distracting you. But if he distracts you anyway when he's supposed to be working (which is what I do when I'm in Ne mode and just want to chat with people instead of working), shutting him down and telling him he should be working is good Sounds bad when I say it like that, but we ESTJs don't take it personally.

...And your idea works really well too Yeah, that'd probably be better.

 

[milkyway2]

As long as the house is clean, he's happy.

THIS IS AMAZING

IT WORKS EVERY TIME

 

[simulatedworld]

@sim: True dat. But when you get them into Ne mode... THEN things get good.
Edit: Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I'm not in "Te mode" for the majority of the time. But the way I imagine "Te mode" is a humorless, bossy sort of mode. I dunno. You watched my video, right? That was pretty much my default mode, and... eh, I'm overthinking this. Never mind.

No, I didn't see it. Link?

Most people have trouble seeing their dominant function in themselves, though. It's so ingrained into your perspective that it seems like the default "normal" perspective and it's hard to see how anything could be different.

Kind of like how you don't notice the smell of your own house because you're so used to it.

 

[EJCC]

As long as the house is clean, he's happy.

THIS IS AMAZING

IT WORKS EVERY TIME

So true. Especially true if it was the ESTJ who cleaned it. Regardless of whether anyone cares whether it's clean, the ESTJ cares, and therefore the ESTJ is happy, and proud of his/her work. This happens to me a lot. Example from when I was a kid:

Me: Hey! Come check out my room! I spend like five hours cleaning it! Isn't it pretty???
My dad: I don't see any difference...
Me:

No, I didn't see it. Link?

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...type-let-us-help-type-you-39.html#post1013465

Most people have trouble seeing their dominant function in themselves, though. It's so ingrained into your perspective that it seems like the default "normal" perspective and it's hard to see how anything could be different.

Kind of like how you don't notice the smell of your own house because you're so used to it.

That's really interesting. I guess, for me, that's reinforced by the fact that the stereotype about Te is bossiness and forcing your view on other people, and I'm not overbearing like that.

 

[TopherRed]

And that's why we love you EJCC. You can clean my room any time, too.

 

[EJCC]

And that's why we love you EJCC. You can clean my room any time, too.

Serious answer: Aw Thanks! I may just take you up on that

Joking answer: I'll clean YOUR MOM'S room! WHOA!

...

 

[Rainne]

Hey, I have another question:

How important is social status (ex: wealth, power, position) to a ESTJ?

 

[EJCC]

Hey, I have another question:

How important is social status (ex: wealth, power, position) to a ESTJ?

It can be very important, or not important at all - i.e. it depends. If other ESTJs are like me, they really want respect and recognition for what they do. Some ESTJs think of that in terms of social status, but not all of them.

 

[Max]

Hey, I have another question:

How important is social status (ex: wealth, power, position) to a ESTJ?

I'm gonna go with "very important" on this one. I need to be seen and respected for the value I have and what I do, and it needs to be shown to me.