Random Politics Thread

[Virtual ghost]

I've got no respect for Christie -- a rotten governor (maybe the most rotten of all time) whose calls for "taking responsibility" strike an ironic note given how fast and easy he threw his aides into the fire for the bridge scandal he orchestrated

Of course, but my comparison was made in comparison with what Trump is offering. So judging from what I saw I would take him over Trump at the helm of the Republicans. The problem is that in the domain of foreign policy things are getting very complicated and thus this entire partisanship war is no longer sustainable. There simply needs to be a more unified front towards hostile moves from outside. What just wouldn't happen if Trump gets to set narrative. He went so over the line that he shouldn't even lead the opposition/minority party. My post in on the level of "desperate times, desperate measures".

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Here I will answer you again since the youtube has thrown at me a random but pretty decent video about what I was talking.

You may not like the guy but you can have basic respect for the person because he appears to be sane. As I told you: if you have only two parties in the county then you can't really afford to have one going completely crazy and off the rails. Since in a sense that is like breaking a leg. The other leg can be as healthy as possible but it just wouldn't matter all that much. In other words this presentation sounds more like the right that I know it. Therefore if you want for US to have things going in a fashion that is closer to other developed countries this is how the right should sound. Since here you can see a person that seems to realize that we are in the 21th century. What is the absolute foundation that you can get anything done. Therefore just as I said in the previous reply: GOP seriously needs one big system update. Because no matter what they will govern large parts of the country and thus you need both of your leg healthy/functional. What can be only solved in the primaries, in general it is already too late.

Chris Christie, I'm less concerned about than the eschatology/Revelations obsessed evangelicals. (This seems more of an American phenomenon)

I think the ones you really have to worry about in your calculus (in terms of global impact) is whatever percentage of these people are genuine in their evangelical beliefs.

I can see one of those guys thinking it would be great to drop some nukes on Russia because it would hasten the return of Christ.

Given the situation with Russia, I don't want those people with their finger in the button.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Chris Christie, I'm less concerned about than the eschatology/Revelations obsessed evangelicals. (This seems more of an American phenomenon)

I think the ones you really have to worry about in your calculus (in terms of global impact) is whatever percentage of these people are genuine in their evangelical beliefs.

I can see one of those guys thinking it would be great to drop some nukes on Russia because it would hasten the return of Christ.

Given the situation with Russia, I don't want those people with their finger in the button.

That is kinda my whole point. I don't agree with Republicans on almost anything however I still see great need to find a figure that can lead the party in generally sane way. The global tensions and problems are simply becoming too great that US can afford some kind of a slow moving civil war. Because the tide of a much greater conflict is turning against the country and that need to be fully recognized. As I said the whole world is currently one big electoral map of US vs. China, where each country has it's own electoral value and leaning. Therefore if you are losing ground that only adds to instability and economic problems because you are losing access. Therefore if you are going to do ultra divisive primaries that will surely blow up your side of the race. What basically makes it certain that you are going to lose the general election. What in this case means that someone else will become dominant global power and then cheap partisan battles and victories will mean little. Especially since that means that you will have debts of a superpower without being a superpower.

I know that at this point voters of both parties cringe at having anything do with the other side but that simply isn't sustainable in current circumstances. You will eventually have to find some kind of a internal compromise (or openly risk much bigger mess and pain than it is now).

 

[Tomb1]

Of course, but my comparison was made in comparison with what Trump is offering. So judging from what I saw I would take him over Trump at the helm of the Republicans. The problem is that in the domain of foreign policy things are getting very complicated and thus this entire partisanship war is no longer sustainable. There simply needs to be a more unified front towards hostile moves from outside. What just wouldn't happen if Trump gets to set narrative. He went so over the line that he shouldn't even lead the opposition/minority party. My post in on the level of "desperate times, desperate measures"

You make too much of unified fronts. Unified fronts gave rise to many disastrous policies. Iraq came out of a unified front (public law no. 107-243). The invasion of Iraq ranks up there as one of the US's worst political decisions this century. Partisanship is not inherently bad.

 

[The Cat]

Chris Christie, I'm less concerned about than the eschatology/Revelations obsessed evangelicals. (This seems more of an American phenomenon)

I think the ones you really have to worry about in your calculus (in terms of global impact) is whatever percentage of these people are genuine in their evangelical beliefs.

I can see one of those guys thinking it would be great to drop some nukes on Russia because it would hasten the return of Christ.

Given the situation with Russia, I don't want those people with their finger in the button.

If they were, they would be very busy loving their neighbor as themselves and doing unto others as they would have done unto them, and walking humbly with their god. Turning other cheeks and being good Samaritans. They wouldnt be trying to end the world, they'd be praying: "Have mercy on me a Sinner." Quietly in the corner. It's the Evangelical Pharasees and Teachers of the Law that you gotta watch out for.

 

[ceecee]

If they were, they would be very busy loving their neighbor as themselves and doing unto others as they would have done unto them, and walking humbly with their god. Turning other cheeks and being good Samaritans. They wouldnt be trying to end the world, they'd be praying: "Have mercy on me a Sinner." Quietly in the corner. It's the Evangelical Pharasees and Teachers of the Law that you gotta watch out for.

Exactly. They would not be starting a FUCKJOEBIDEN PAC or seeing how many infants and children under 5 they can get thrown off Medicaid by bankrolling the most soulless state legislature possible.

 

[ceecee]

Chris Christie, I'm less concerned about than the eschatology/Revelations obsessed evangelicals. (This seems more of an American phenomenon)

I think the ones you really have to worry about in your calculus (in terms of global impact) is whatever percentage of these people are genuine in their evangelical beliefs.

I can see one of those guys thinking it would be great to drop some nukes on Russia because it would hasten the return of Christ.

Given the situation with Russia, I don't want those people with their finger in the button.

I don't even know why we are discussing the GOP nominees at all. At all. Don't vote for any Republicans, anywhere at any level. This isn't about individual candidates and which one is less worse. This is about the entire party, from local to federal - and they can eat themselves much like they did in 1854. They came out of that much better for their party and the country.

 

[The Cat]

When people tell you who they are listen to them. Pubs all over are telling you they're your rulers, not your representatives.

 

[The Cat]

Exactly. They would not be starting a FUCKJOEBIDEN PAC or seeing how many infants and children under 5 they can get thrown off Medicaid by bankrolling the most soulless state legislature possible.

Not to mention forcing kids to be born only to steal food out of their mouths with their bass akwards rob the poor to amuse the rich platform. Every one of those sons of bitches is always "willing to be the bad guy" but not a single soul among them is willing to be even a half way decent guy let alone a good guy. And they have the unmitigated gall to run as the alleged "moral" party, when their own Bible condemns them for weilding "The sword of the spirit" against women and children whenever they get a ghost of a chance to do it. I just want one reporter to ask one of these chuckle heads who doesnt want a seperation of church and state and only wants the bible in school what they make of this:

And Then I want them to pull up their voting record. All the thirsty people they took water from, all the hungry children they forced to stay hungry to "prove a point" to the other side of the isle. Every immigrant in need seeking aid and shelter, and was turned away imprisoned tortured(including rape) and killed...their blood cries out to heaven and if not a sparrow falls without God marking the time, what do these "religious" chuds think is waiting for them when they get to the other side. Christians should be acting more like progressives if they actually read their Holy Book and used it as a rule and guide for their faith and practice rather than as a cudgel against the poor or lgbtqia+.

It bugs me as someone who grew up in the "culture" but actually did the homework and fucking read the damned book.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I know that at this point voters of both parties cringe at having anything do with the other side but that simply isn't sustainable in current circumstances. You will eventually have to find some kind of a internal compromise (or openly risk much bigger mess and pain than it is now).

Obama tried internal compromise for 8 years, and look where that got us. I actually thought it was working and was willing to make my peace with everything, especially because I was more centrist in those days (2014, 2015). I had this idea that it was important to be moderate to contain the extremists on the other side. Isn't it plain to everyone now that it doesn't actually work?

 

[The Cat]

Obama tried internal compromise for 8 years, and look where that got us. I actually thought it was working and was willing to make my peace with everything, especially because I was more centrist in those days (2014, 2015). I had this idea that it was important to be moderate to contain the extremists on the other side. Isn't it plain to everyone now that it doesn't actually work?

Conservatism and liberalism are smokes screens designed to keep us fighting each other and not noticing the rich men picking our pockets and trying to flee the planet before the check comes due and wrecking it on their way out. Metaphorically as a society we're in the Diner in Pulp Fiction. Religion dictates progressivism in its holy scriptures. Science demands adaptation and evolution. Common Sense dictates that it's cheaper to be a good person. If all these things at their core inherently point towards progress, why are you looking for solutions from congress? Community Networking is the path you'll need to take to find what you are looking for. Like him or not respect him or not, Jerry Fallwell proved the path to power starts at the community level. All the purity tests in the world can't hold a candle to the simple act of people coming together with common purpose towards a common goal. And EVERYONE at the peon voter level has more in common with each other than they do differences. The people in power know it and believe it even if we don't down here in the pits.

The truth is we're the weak. And our system is the tyranny of evil men. But some are tryin'. A few even are tryin' real hard to see it be a shepherd instead.

Disenfranchising you and defeating you is the point of all of the smoke screens. Like it or not, believe it or not as you will, but this is war, even if an invisible one. We need to find a way to come together as a people or we will most certainly go extinct in a hard, prolonged and horrifying manner. But as they said in Rome until it fell and even after: "Dum Spiro Spero." If I were a drill sgt I'd tell you everyone is tired and everything sucks, now get back to work. Because we've got lots of work to do before dying. You can bitch about giving up when you're dead. Because ultimately once you've given up. You kinda already are dead as a person. You just sort of haunt life instead of living in it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You make too much of unified fronts. Unified fronts gave rise to many disastrous policies. Iraq came out of a unified front (public law no. 107-243). The invasion of Iraq ranks up there as one of the US's worst political decisions this century. Partisanship is not inherently bad.

Since you got some likes for this I will give you my honest answer.

It is true that partisanship isn't fundamentally bad, after all I am fully for the honest political debate. However keeping the country at the edge of civil war for years just isn't smart thing to do. After all this has huge emotional and financial cost. What is the damage that is completely comparable to Iraq. Also Iraq didn't happen due to bipartisan reasons, it happened because there wasn't enough sane people at the table. What is exactly something that I would like to see changed and that is why I started to think out loud that this slow moving civil war perhaps isn't the smart idea (especially if you take a look at the wider global picture). Because if this continues you will have literal Iraq on your streets and backyards and that will surely be much worse than Iraq on the other side of the globe. After all as a foreigner I pay attention to both parties and in the both I see pretty much same paranoia. Yes, there are some pretty bad apples in the mix but I just don't see the point in this scale of drama on both sides. While in reality you are all just confused because you had a pretty lousy streak in life. Therefore people insisting on removing bad apples and solving concrete problems would make much more sense than current pushing for the rapture of the whole country. What means that there would be no winners or they would be various foreign powers. As that famous quote goes "the only way to win is not to play".


But as all of you wish, I wouldn't bother any of you anymore with this. I think that I was pretty clear over the last few posts.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Obama tried internal compromise for 8 years, and look where that got us. I actually thought it was working and was willing to make my peace with everything, especially because I was more centrist in those days (2014, 2015). I had this idea that it was important to be moderate to contain the extremists on the other side. Isn't it plain to everyone now that it doesn't actually work?

Wrong, he didn't really try to do anything. He continued to massively outsource jobs out of which rural areas (aka Republicans) live. Plus he continued to push various disasters like already named Iraq. While what was needed here was making a compromise with Republican voters, not their representatives. The concept that doesn't really exist in modern political culture of US (and that is kinda why you are where you are). In other words this is what would really prevent 2016 from turning into what it was.

But as I said I will stop here. After all this problem wouldn't be solved on the random site such as this one. In my book the whole logic of "everything" here is just wrong.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Wrong, he didn't really try to do anything. He continued to massively outsource jobs out of which rural areas (aka Republicans) live. Plus he continued to push various disasters like already named Iraq. While what was needed here was making a compromise with Republican voters, not their representatives. The concept that doesn't really exist in modern political culture of US (and that is kinda why you are where you are). In other words this is what would really prevent 2016 from turning into what it was.

Perhaps. I wouldn't have objected to that, depending on if it involved something like TPP.

Is TPP what you are referring to? I remember him constantly pushing to get that passed in 2016, and I wanted him to just stop.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Perhaps. I wouldn't have objected to that, depending on what if it involved something like TPP.

Is TPP what you are referring to? I remember him constantly pushing to get that passed in 2016, and I wanted him to just stop.

Yes I am talking about that, as well as various other such stories over those 8 years. I mean this was a general policy even before him and he only speed it up from what I understand. Therefore I am talking about the whole political doctrine, not just some random deal. What is extra problematic is that you guys don't have many of what is generally consider to be basic welfare programs around the rest 1th world. Therefore when you do mass outsourcing you will literally kill decent amount of people in the process. Because in US without money and income you are basically a dead man. This is why rural areas went crazy and in 2016 it happened what happened.


If someone wants to hate Republican politicians that is ok, but don't bring ordinary people into this unless you really have to. These people are mostly pretty traumatized and just leave them out of trashing talking points if possible. Or at least that is what I would do since nothing really constructive can come out of this. Alienation only makes things even worse.

 

[The Cat]

Perhaps. I wouldn't have objected to that, depending on what if it involved something like TPP.

Is TPP what you are referring to? I remember him constantly pushing to get that passed in 2016, and I wanted him to just stop.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion

Yes I am talking about that, as well as various other such stories over those 8 years. I mean this was a general policy even before him and he only speed it up from what I understand. Therefore I am talking about the whole political doctrine, not just some random deal. What is extra problematic is that you guys don't have many of what is generally consider to be basic welfare programs around the rest 1th world. Therefore when you do mass outsourcing you will literally kill decent amount of people in the process. Because in US without money and income you are basically a dead man. This is why rural areas went crazy and in 2016 it happened what happened.


If someone wants to hate Republican politicians that is ok, but don't bring ordinary people into this unless you really have to. These people are mostly pretty traumatized and just leave them out of trashing talking points if possible. Or at least that is what I would do since nothing really constructive can come out of this. Alienation only makes things even worse.

That's part of the game though that most of us dont realize we're playing in. The one way out is through and nobody makes it out alone. Its a generational crab bucket. Most people here believe that theres no such thing as brainwashing.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes I am talking about that, as well as various other such stories over those 8 years. I mean this was a general policy even before him and he only speed it up from what I understand. Therefore I am talking about the whole political doctrine, not just some random deal. What is extra problematic is that you guys don't have many of what is generally consider to be basic welfare programs around the rest 1th world. Therefore when you do mass outsourcing you will literally kill decent amount of people in the process. Because in US without money and income you are basically a dead man. This is why rural areas went crazy and in 2016 it happened what happened.

There is a certain tendency in "popular crisis management" (I am not talking about politicians or civil servants although this in all probability extends to some of them) to take a bad thing that happens and go "Oh we need to do something about this bad thing, we need to make sure the bad thing never happens again". This part I'm fine with.

There's another part. This is where they get livid with anger at the concept of analyzing why the bad thing happened. "This bad thing exists outside of space and time! why are you treating it like it's not. Oh my god do you support bad thing?" I've seen conservatives and liberals do this (about different things) and it drives my bonkers. Good luck trying to stop a thing while thinking it's the mark of a corrupted soul to try to understand it. I think a lot of people responded to 2016 along these lines.

To bring it close to home and illustrate what I'm talking about (although I've never heard anyone do the above with regards to this incident), it seems important to know why young man that shot all those people in Highland Park Illinois last July, did that. How do you stop it from happening again if you don't? You can ban weapons, but good luck getting that to happen on a federal level. And unless it happens on a federal level, it's useless because people can go buy these things in a neighboring state.

 

[The Cat]

There is a certain tendency in "popular crisis management" (I am not talking about politicians or civil servants although this in all probability extends to some of them) to take a bad thing that happens and go "Oh we need to do something about this bad thing, we need to make sure the bad thing never happens again". This part I'm fine with.

There's another part. This is where they get livid with anger at the concept of analyzing why the bad thing happened. "This bad thing exists outside of space and time! why are you treating it like it's not. Oh my god do you support bad thing?" I've seen conservatives and liberals do this (about different things) and it drives my bonkers. Good luck trying to stop a thing while thinking it's the mark of a corrupted soul to try to understand it. I think a lot of people responded to 2016 along these lines.

To bring it close to home for me, it seems important to know why young man that shot all those people in Highland Park Illinois last July, did that. How do you stop it from happening again if you don't? You can ban weapons, but good luck getting that to happen on a federal level. And unless it happens on a federal level, it's useless because people can go buy these things in a neighboring state.

Riddle me this: "Does the face of the coin matter as much as the stakes of the toss if its Heads they win Tails we lose?