Culture and Mental Illness

[prplchknz]

the culture i'm in which is white liberal/progressive culture they try to understand but they don't. and therefore is no longer worth me talking about

 

[ceecee]

I think the stigma has dissipated in some ways and increased in some ways. I've often thought the hyper reaction to, not only mental illness but ANY kind of illness, from certain segments of the population is the reaction to anyone discussing health and the challenges of getting help and treatment. Just look at COVID and people raging against any kind of comprehensive response to it. Ultimately I do think health and care will become less stigmatized overall but not until care is available, even for the ones raging against care - their mental states are really precarious and they desperately need some help.

 

[Red Memories]

I think there's still a good deal of stigma about mental illness in relation to teenagers, which I think prevents help from being received early on.

I suppose I am using my family example, but my mother is mentally ill herself and kind of emotionally unavailable, and my grandfather does not take mental illness seriously at all unless you have a "Reason". His reasoning would be a bad traumatic childhood like my mother had. Otherwise you are making things up for attention. Which is EXACTLY how he perceived my mental health crisis I had at 16. Despite being diagnosed with GAD and Depression in my psyche ward stay and outpatient, he believed I did this to manipulate my mother into pitying me. I still have a lot of internal anger about how he does not at all believe I have an anxiety disorder. Every time I have an anxiety problem he is very rude to me, tells me to get over it, I've had a good life. all that jazz. As if buying me things means I have a good life. -_- When I worked at Wal-Mart I felt like my boss did not take my problem very seriously and was too harsh with me when I'd have panic attacks at work. I realize it reduces my productivity but chiding me absolutely does not help in the moment.

Idaho healthcare is absolutely terrible. They offer little in the form of mental health care. My mother can only go visit small scale therapists who do not help with her extensive trauma at all, and because of our budget, we cannot afford specialists. My therapist was one still in training but it is what we could afford since my welfare expansion for my mental health similar to discussed, was only for some group therapy that was all the way in another town. I didn't respond well to group therapy in the ward so I really did not want that. Idaho also has one of the highest suicide rates and I completely understand why after my experience.

I feel like as an adult my mother has come around to me having GAD. But before she would equate my issues to teenage hormones that I would "grow out of" or she would get angry with me for venting to people online. So it has always kind of been an uphill battle for me.

My boss is just completely different. He completely sees my illnesses as valid and takes me seriously when I tell him little things he can do to help prevent it. The panic attack I had at work that day was set off by having too many people asking me questions all at once and not knowing how to handle them all and fearing the unknown which may come as a reaction so I panicked. So he suggested possibly getting me a little pen pad to carry so if someone asks I can write it down so I remember what they asked and what I am looking for. Which is great. And he reminded me if I feel unsure he is right there and I can always tap him, nothing has more importance than helping me help them. XD But that reassurance is something I am absolutely not used to.

My grandfather attributed my symptoms to being one of the following categories:
My depression was an act of attention, so was my bout of self injury.
My anxiety is my lack of preparation. Not trying hard enough. Not working hard enough. Spending too much time on other shit instead of doing what I'm supposed to. If I prepared I wouldn't feel anxious at all... -_- also suggested I used it for attention too.
I don't DARE even bring up PTSD to him, I haven't had a bad life, I can't have that.

My family is American of course. They grew up in West Virginia. Different place in the south. So just giving a perspective there.

 

[Tilt]

@Coriolis, I don't think the symptoms and problems behind those illnesses are unique to Japan necessarily but the actual illnesses are catered specifically to fit the Japanese cultural context. Japan is known for its extreme collectivism and reaching of certain social milestones or you will bring shame upon your family. It's so engrained into the culture, certain people want to escape the high pressure and will do it to an "unhealthy" level. However, I am sure other highly collectivist achievement-based cultures deal with similar issues.

The thing about C-PTSD is that some people see it as too similar to borderline personality disorder or as an overlap of multiple existing disorders. So it really comes down to what criteria can teams of experts compromise on and agree upon in order to make C-PTSD its own distinct diagnosis. Right now, the symptoms are just lumped into anxiety and trauma-related disorders.

 

[Frosty]

@Coriolis, I don't think the symptoms and problems behind those illnesses are unique to Japan necessarily but the actual illnesses are catered specifically to fit the Japanese cultural context. Japan is known for its extreme collectivism and reaching of certain social milestones or you will bring shame upon your family. It's so engrained into the culture, certain people want to escape the high pressure and will do it to an "unhealthy" level. However, I am sure other highly collectivist achievement-based cultures deal with similar issues.

The thing about C-PTSD is that some people see it as too similar to borderline personality disorder or as an overlap of multiple existing disorders. So it really comes down to what criteria can teams of experts compromise on and agree upon in order to make C-PTSD its own distinct diagnosis. Right now, the symptoms are just lumped into anxiety and trauma-related disorders.

Yeah Ive also seen- and Im not saying this is MY opinion- that theres this idea that labeling someone with C-PTSD is less stigmatizing than BPD- so that that label is used when BPD would work as well.

Not sure if thats right or not, but I think thats where some of the controversy might come in. There are distinctions between the two disorders- but also a lot of blur. But thats similar to a lot of psych disorders. Bipolar 1 vs 2 vs cyclothymia. Schizophrenia vs schizoaffective disorder vs psychotic depression vs bipolar with psychotic features. GAD vs social anxiety disorder. Seasonal affective disorder vs MDD. On and on and on.

But it does bring up an interesting point. Like, some disorders ARE more stigmatized than others. And even if cptsd is (and again not saying it is or isnt) a catch all for BPD- at what point is a diagnosis so stigmatized as to... where a change in label- an adjustment or something- would help. At what point is labeling someone with a black and white disorder better or worse than just- treating them based on symptoms and traits? Disorders are catch all terms for symptoms- but there is good and bad in labeling yourself with a disorder. Good- now you understand “why”, bad... Ive seen a lot of people... Ive seen a lot of people broken or hurt by the idea of being told of the potential limitations of living with a particular diagnosis.

So I guess, my question is... culturally what is the next step? Do we try to normalize diagnoses- or is that bad? Do we need to change diagnostic categories? Create more variations/subtypes- or less? How do we both legitimize the struggles of those with more common and maybe less- “technically” severe mental illnesses while also voicing that some illnesses- particularly those less common- do tend to be more stigmatized/are less accepted?

Culturally... what do we need to do to do better?

 

[prplchknz]

I am sure that in this matter a lot depends on a person's upbringing and his attitude to other people. Some refuse to acknowledge the existence of people with serious health problems or disabilities. They believe that these people are still a big problem for the development of society and negatively affect others. However, this is a misconception, and I hope there will be few such people. Now there are many benefits for people with disabilities. WOWcan pay for expensive medical treatment and help them live a normal life. Also, don't forget about the various sponsoring organizations that are fighting to save their lives. I believe that there are many more people who are ready to help in such a situation. And someday a society based on mutual understanding, help and support will be created!Im an ad zombie! RAWR!

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WTF? no people on ssi get at most a little over 700 a month (ssdi, it's a little more), and unless they're lucky to be on disability by age of 26 they only have medicaid and most doctors don't take medicaid. ssi actually sucks to be on, you can't make enough money to actually own anything or pay rent but yeah we're fortunate, eff you! asshole. and there are so many people who are disabled who can't get disability because they're not "disabled" enough wtf does that even mean? but they also can't work or are limited in what they can do. but yeah disabled people are gaming the system . you are ignorant, if you knew how fucking hard it is to actually get disability and how much it actually sucks you wouldn't said this stuff. Yes I know he's banned, but this is for other ignorant fucks on the forum

 

[yeghor]

I have seen a few comments in other threads that mention culture in reference to how people views mental illness, especially the family members of someone experiencing mental illness. In the US, and here I mean "garden variety" Americans, mental illness is losing some of its stigma, and from what I understand the Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") required mental illness be treated on the same terms as physical illness. Still, there is prejudice and misunderstanding among much of the populace about this category of illness.

How do other cultures view mental illness, and what is the impact on the ability of people who have it to cope with it, seek treatment, and get on with their lives?

This thread is not in Support/Advice subforum, but please be mindful as you comment that this is a sensitive topic for many people, especially those sharing personal experiences.

I think radical feminism has led to normalization of feminine type of mental and behavioral disorders in the Western world such that they are allowed much more representation in the public and business domain (i.e. more tolerance to them is being preached) whereas masculine type of disorders are being criminalized/stigmatized yet they are in fact different manifestations of similar mental problems, and the feminine versions are covertly and masculine versions are overtly destructive to the integrity of the society and others.

Of course this normalization has lead to the seepage of these disorders and disordered worldviews and ideologies into the general public and governmental policies, gradually eroding the integrity of the Western World, making it more chaotic under the pretense of becoming more liberal. Then you end up electing prime ministers that keep partying like teenagers.

 

[Coriolis]

I think radical feminism has led to normalization of feminine type of mental and behavioral disorders in the Western world such that they are allowed much more representation in the public and business domain (i.e. more tolerance to them is being preached) whereas masculine type of disorders are being criminalized/stigmatized yet they are in fact different manifestations of similar mental problems, and the feminine versions are covertly and masculine versions are overtly destructive to the integrity of the society and others.

Of course this normalization has lead to the seepage of these disorders and disordered worldviews and ideologies into the general public and governmental policies, gradually eroding the integrity of the Western World, making it more chaotic under the pretense of becoming more liberal. Then you end up electing prime ministers that keep partying like teenagers.

What do you mean by "feminine" and "masculine" disorders? How do you distinguish among disorders, learned behaviors, and behaviors that are simply different? What definition of liberal are you using? You will need to provide more details for me (and probably others) to grasp your meaning.

 

[Earl Grey]

I think radical feminism has led to normalization of feminine type of mental and behavioral disorders in the Western world such that they are allowed much more representation in the public and business domain (i.e. more tolerance to them is being preached) whereas masculine type of disorders are being criminalized/stigmatized yet they are in fact different manifestations of similar mental problems, and the feminine versions are covertly and masculine versions are overtly destructive to the integrity of the society and others.

Of course this normalization has lead to the seepage of these disorders and disordered worldviews and ideologies into the general public and governmental policies, gradually eroding the integrity of the Western World, making it more chaotic under the pretense of becoming more liberal. Then you end up electing prime ministers that keep partying like teenagers.

This whole post is basically saying "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist," like, well, a child, not even touching on this strange categorisation of certain disorders being 'masculine' or 'feminine'.

More representation if anything has been helpful in eradicating issues instead of letting them fester quietly. It has been the same with for eg, autism, where children were thought to be Changelings and left in the forest to die, taken to the circus to be gawked at and tormented on purpose, sold to slavery, killed for any other reason, etc.

When women did not have voices, of course there would be no coverage of mental and behavioural disorders. They were just divorced or killed, burned, stoned. Or, diagnosed with what at the time was called 'hysteria'- and INSTITUTIONALISED. It doesn't take a lot for that to happen, either. Rosemary Kennedy was LOBOTOMISED ultimately because she was "rebellious", with no one in her family ever truly helping her with her delayed development that resulted in her "behavioural problems" (bullshit. When she was being treated well, people reported that she didn't behave any differently from others. It was only when she was sent back to her family, judged, ostracised that she began acting out- like, YOU KNOW, A NORMAL PERSON).

Just because it wasn't "widely known", that doesn't mean the disorder (or penalties for the disorder) didn't ever exist, and that doesn't mean it wasn't ever treated/punished (more the latter than former). Society knew about these things, even before they were called what they are called in our modern society, whatever they may be. To say otherwise is ignorance.

Personally, I think dealing with these disorders- whatever they may be- in a humane and civilised fashion beats public burnings, but you do you.

 

[yeghor]

What do you mean by "feminine" and "masculine" disorders? How do you distinguish among disorders, learned behaviors, and behaviors that are simply different? What definition of liberal are you using? You will need to provide more details for me (and probably others) to grasp your meaning.

I shouldn't have to Coriolis, if there were NTs around. They would read into it already without having me to explain every fine detail between the lines.

ESTP = Antisocial personality disorder = He's a criminal
ESFP = Feminine antisocial personality disorder = Borderline Personality Disorder = She's a strong woman victimized by men, it's not her fault.
INTP = Schizophrenia = Mental guy
INFP = Feminine schizophrenia = Identity dysmorphia and multiple personality disorder = She's gender/identity fluid, it's OK we shouldn't ostracize them but accommodate them.
ISTP = Psychopathy = He's a criminal
ISFP = Feminine psychopathy = She's a left activist and radical feminist, she's not violent she just wants the world be a better place.

Radical libertarian right is not OK because they oppressed/oppress women.

Radical libertarian left is OK because women were/are oppressed.

In my eyes they are different expressions of the same shit, male and female chiavaunism/sexism, respectively and radical feminism is enabling that behaviour under the pretense of liberalism (freeing my sex/class from oppression) rather than acknowledging itself as a problem and rehabilitating it.

 

[Coriolis]

I shouldn't have to Coriolis, if there were NTs around. They would read into it already without having me to explain every fine detail between the lines.

"Reading into it", especially on a serious topic like this, results in misunderstandings more often than not, leaving people talking past each other. I am not going to assume your meaning, and if you cannot be bothered to explain, it is pointless for me to respond. @Arcturus made the effort to do so, and explained himself quite clearly, but you have yet to address his points.

In my eyes they are different expressions of the same shit, male and female chiavaunism/sexism, respectively and radical feminism is enabling that behaviour under the pretense of liberalism (freeing my sex/class from oppression) rather than acknowledging itself as a problem and rehabilitating it.

This is too incoherent and full of ambiguous labels to permit any sort of cogent response.

 

[yeghor]

"Reading into it", especially on a serious topic like this, results in misunderstandings more often than not, leaving people talking past each other. I am not going to assume your meaning, and if you cannot be bothered to explain, it is pointless for me to respond. @Arcturus made the effort to do so, and explained himself quite clearly, but you have yet to address his points.


This is too incoherent and full of ambiguous labels to permit any sort of cogent response.

I am constantly being frustrated. I'll try to explain the reason why.

Sensors are accustomed to perceiving things with their eyes. They are like beasts that live above ground in broad daylight. I am more like an animal that lives below ground. I liken myself to a wombat. Wombats have poor sense of sight cause they live in burrows in the dark. Instead, they have heightened sense of smell and hearing to compensate for it. There are also beasts that are in/between, who can process sight, hearing and sound at the same time. I think there's a similar reason why Mole have chosen that username.

Based on this analogy, my deductions rely 90% on smell and hearing. A discommunication arises when I present my deductions to sensors in that I am talking about smell and sound of things, which don't mean much to them. They make counter-arguments based 90% on sight. I tell them it might look like what they say it is but it doesn't smell or quack like what they say it is.

This is deficiency on both sides. I need to find a way to make my smell and sound deductions more translatable into sight perception and you guys need to learn to close your eyes and strengthen your senses of smell and hearing. Until that time, further discussion is pointless and frustrating.

 

[Coriolis]

I am constantly being frustrated. I'll try to explain the reason why.

Sensors are accustomed to perceiving things with their eyes. They are like beasts that live above ground in broad daylight. I am more like an animal that lives below ground. I liken myself to a wombat. Wombats have poor sense of sight cause they live in burrows in the dark. Instead, they have heightened sense of smell and hearing to compensate for it. There are also beasts that are in/between, who can process sight, hearing and sound at the same time. I think there's a similar reason why Mole have chosen that username.

Based on this analogy, my deductions rely 90% on smell and hearing. A discommunication arises when I present my deductions to sensors in that I am talking about smell and sound of things, which don't mean much to them. They make counter-arguments based 90% on sight. I tell them it might look like what they say it is but it doesn't smell or quack like what they say it is.

This is deficiency on both sides. I need to find a way to make my smell and sound deductions more translatable into sight perception and you guys need to learn to close your eyes and strengthen your senses of smell and hearing. Until that time, further discussion is pointless and frustrating.

Your previous comment relied upon labels like liberal and feminist that have considerable baggage and are highly subject to interpretation. I cannot know which interpretation you are using unless you explain. This is not type-dependent except perhaps inasmuch as INTJs value efficiency: why expend the effort if there is likely to be no return? There is no point in my formulating a thoughtful reply, only to be told after that I (not surprisingly) completely missed your point. I will say that the mental health conditions you mentioned are not type-dependent, nor gender specific, though how they are received in society is often biased by gender, and other factors.

 

[yeghor]

Your previous comment relied upon labels like liberal and feminist that have considerable baggage and are highly subject to interpretation. I cannot know which interpretation you are using unless you explain. This is not type-dependent except perhaps inasmuch as INTJs value efficiency: why expend the effort if there is likely to be no return? There is no point in my formulating a thoughtful reply, only to be told after that I (not surprisingly) completely missed your point. I will say that the mental health conditions you mentioned are not type-dependent, nor gender specific, though how they are received in society is often biased by gender, and other factors.

Moody Blues - A Simple Game

 

[Indigo Rodent]

WTF? no people on ssi get at most a little over 700 a month (ssdi, it's a little more), and unless they're lucky to be on disability by age of 26 they only have medicaid and most doctors don't take medicaid. ssi actually sucks to be on, you can't make enough money to actually own anything or pay rent but yeah we're fortunate, eff you! asshole. and there are so many people who are disabled who can't get disability because they're not "disabled" enough wtf does that even mean? but they also can't work or are limited in what they can do. but yeah disabled people are gaming the system . you are ignorant, if you knew how fucking hard it is to actually get disability and how much it actually sucks you wouldn't said this stuff. Yes I know he's banned, but this is for other ignorant fucks on the forum

All societies that don't pay living wages + medical costs + compensation for pain of disability to all economically disabled people are utterly inhuman and evil and worthy of punishment. Many societies are devoted to nazi social Darwinism and starving disabled people or torturing disabled people with poverty. They have to be denazified.

 

[Pionart]

Let's not forget that some of so-called mental illness is simply a person not fitting into their surrounding culture (and not actual neuroticism).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If we had national mental health care we could probably go a long way towards solving homelessness.

 

[yeghor]

This is what happens when the culture tries to normalize mental disorders by reframing them.

Things Just Got CRAZIER For Ezra Miller After The TRUTH Gets EXPOSED! - by JosiahRises