Trump vs. Bernie

[Nicodemus]

I have a confession to make that I think would surprise some people. My main reasons for supporting Bernie Sanders actually have nothing to do with "free stuff." It isn't about free college, student loan forgiveness (which I have reservations about despite having a fuckton of it), or even Medicare for All.

It has more to do with Bernie's stances on a few things that are formative to my political development. It might seem like ancient history to many, but I think his opposition to the Iraq War and the Patriot Act are really the things that have won me over. Those were not popular stances at the time. I think it shows a great deal of courage and integrity and speaks volumes to his character. His primary success shows me that we've come along way since 2004, and that's very encouraging and energizing. I think there's still too many in the Democratic party who I don't really trust when it comes to facing similar issues in the future. I don't think we've really ever dealt with as a country with the mistakes we made during that time, and but I think with him as President, we might. It convinces me that politics is something worth giving a shit about again. I like his stances on the Middle East and that he just straight up called Bibi exactly what he is.

I think with him as President, I could actually feel proud of this country. I'd feel like we'd be a place worth living and the model for the world we always claim we are. We wouldn't just be a place less shitty, but maybe actually the great country we're supposed to be.

The stuff about M4A and the "free stuff" is just a bonus. I don't care that corporate media despises him because they helped get us into this mess in the Middle East in the first place.

I think the single most important reason that people like Bernie is his authenticity. That, strangely enough, is also why people like Trump - although, in his case, that entails an unending barrage of lies. Voters want real people, not polished politicians. Her inability to be herself on stage cost Hillary the election; it would cost Klobuchar the election and would defeat Bloomberg (unless he bought Fox News). Buttigieg, to my displeasure, is also turning into a politician.

If it really comes down to Trump vs. Bernie, I think Bernie would win if only the people decided. But given that Bernie poses a danger to corporate rule over government, he may be up against powers mightier than the electorate while Trump is supported by corporate and private money from within the US and around the world.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If it really comes down to Trump vs. Bernie, I think Bernie would win if only the people decided. But given that Bernie poses a danger to corporate rule over government, he may be up against powers mightier than the electorate while Trump is supported by corporate and private money from within the US and around the world.

I've said before that in a Trump vs. Bernie fight, the corporate media might suddenly start being a lot more pro-Trump. So that's a danger for sure, but I really think he's the best shot against Trump.

And you raise an interesting point about Fox. If Bloomberg really wanted to do good, why doesn't he just buy Fox?

 

[21%]

I think Trump was just kinda 'shameful' to have as president, but he did nothing to hurt rich people's pockets. Bernie is proposing to hurt rich people's pockets, and I think people on both sides are going to try to stop him, because ultimately money is more important. Someone was saying earlier that there might be an attempt on Bernie's life, and I don't think it's too far-fetched.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I got the impression from the last debate that the plan is to attempt to get Bernie worked up to the brink of another heart attack. I don't think that will happen, especially once he debates Trump one-on-one. I could see trump getting worked up in a one-on one with Bernie though. He is easily goaded. I recall he kept his cool all of 5 minutes in one of the debates with Hillary. You could watch his face turning brighter and sense when he was about to go off the rails. Of course that's what his supporters seem to love.

 

[Jaguar]

I got the impression from the last debate that the plan is to attempt to get Bernie worked up to the brink of another heart attack.

If that's even a remote possibility, he shouldn't be running.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Whenever people mention "free healthcare" and lump it together with other "free stuff" promised by the likes of Warren and Sanders, these tweets come to mind:

And I do want to mention it's not about free healthcare so much as affordable health care. I'm with Bernie when he says it's weird this is considered such a radical idea.

It might seem radical to make healthcare affordable to everyone because we're so far from that being a reality, but still, it's weird that we can send people to the moon and create clones but it's "too radical" to think we should adjust things so that everyone has access to healthcare.

Can you even imagine how radical and super-communist the idea of libraries would be if they didn't already exist?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

If Bloomberg really wanted to do good, why doesn't he just buy Fox?

There's a lot of things he (and other billionaires) could easily pay for to help. I've wondered if it's because it doesn't occur to them (or to anyone they interact with) or if they just don't care enough.

 

[ceecee]

My mother survived on disability for several years after her back surgery. I was educated in public schools and at a public university. My grandparents lived off of social security until they died. I've driven across multiple state lines on national highways without incident. The CDC works to track and catalog the spread of diseases and develops vaccinations that save hundreds of thousands of lives each year.

I'm not sure what you mean by "most things" or "massive failures" but I'd like specific examples so we can discuss this more in depth.

In no way am I advocating for less freedom or a nanny state; I think liberty and the right to be in control of one's own destiny are of utmost importance. But I think it is important to rationally assess our problems and take an honest look at the possible solutions to them.

I have no idea why wanting the government to serve the people of this country appears to be akin to a nanny state or less freedom or something bad, at least to some people.

Can you imagine what a person might be able to accomplish when they don't have to worry about health care? Or aren't crushed under the weight of a six figure student loan? I want those people to have the same control over their destiny as more well off people do. That the healthy do.

I want the federal government to work to make the lives of American better and make their goals attainable. That's it. It doesn't matter if it's building a new bridge or highway or expanding the decades old Medicare system to include everyone. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why working people would spend one second arguing, much less voting, on behalf of management, ownership and corporate America. It's beyond voting against their interest. It's like a slow suicide.

 

[Nicodemus]

There's a lot of things he (and other billionaires) could easily pay for to help. I've wondered if it's because it doesn't occur to them (or to anyone they interact with) or if they just don't care enough.

It is beyond me how someone who time and again feels compelled to speak out in such ways can share a bed with the moral abomination that is his wife. Sure, she is allegedly one of the most prolific leakers in the White House, but she still aids in the end of US democracy for nothing more than money.

 

[Jaguar]

I don't think they'd believe anything in the ads. It's like the alcoholic personality but without the alcohol. "No problem. Nope. There's no problem."

Sure, she is allegedly one of the most prolific leakers in the White House, but she still aids in the end of US democracy for nothing more than money.

That's a political whore.

 

[á´…eparted]

It is beyond me how someone who time and again feels compelled to speak out in such ways can share a bed with the moral abomination that is his wife. Sure, she is allegedly one of the most prolific leakers in the White House, but she still aids in the end of US democracy for nothing more than money.

I think at the end of the day they both are fundamentally naïve, and think they're doing something good in a dark place. They both probably have private opinions rather different from their public ones that allows them to keep together and they likely agree a lot more than it looks like. Kellyann can try and thwart wrong-doing from the inside, and George can go and say what they both are really are (or closer to what they are) thinking.

Or it could be they have mutual blackmail and a co-dependancy between them and if either parts it would end them both in some way.

Also, they very likely have enough money between them and enough political insider support that they think they will be just fine through this ordeal.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It is beyond me how someone who time and again feels compelled to speak out in such ways can share a bed with the moral abomination that is his wife. Sure, she is allegedly one of the most prolific leakers in the White House, but she still aids in the end of US democracy for nothing more than money.

I don't think they do share a bed. NYT posted this piece about them on Valentine's Day: When America’s Oddest Political Couple Fight, Those Sparks Are Real. They rarely stay in the same place as each other. I'm not sure why I was expecting it to be funny to read (like the movie War Of the Roses), but I guess it really is all the animosity the two sides of the country feel towards each other packed into the microcosm of a relationship in which they "stay together for the kids."

He's doing an amazing job keeping his public composure/sense of humor intact.

 

[ceecee]

It is beyond me how someone who time and again feels compelled to speak out in such ways can share a bed with the moral abomination that is his wife. Sure, she is allegedly one of the most prolific leakers in the White House, but she still aids in the end of US democracy for nothing more than money.

I think this is a tag team thing, I think it's been a scam they've both been running (with Trump's blessing) since the beginning.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why working people would spend one second arguing, much less voting, on behalf of management, ownership and corporate America. It's beyond voting against their interest. It's like a slow suicide.

Yeah. I wish I could understand it, or find some source to read/watch enough to make it understandable. Ken Burns needs to jump on this opportunity.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I think this is a tag team thing, I think it's been a scam they've both been running (with Trump's blessing) since the beginning.

This would explain how Conway keeps his composure so well. But I'd be really surprised if Trump had enough intentional strategy in him to allow someone to make him look as bad as George Conway consistently makes him look. Trump is like a throbbing pile of compulsive reaction. His ego is so fragile that I'd be really hard pressed to believe he's intentionally allowing it.

 

[ceecee]

This would explain how Conway keeps his composure so well. But I'd be really surprised if Trump had enough intentional strategy in him to allow someone to make him look as bad as George Conway consistently makes him look. Trump is like a throbbing pile of compulsive reaction. His ego is so fragile that I'd be really hard pressed to believe he's intentionally allowing it.

He's one gigantic toddler meltdown, this is true. But I've never seen Trump have much of anything to say to George Conway on Twitter and he's been at Mar-a-Lago too.

 

[ceecee]

I just want to reiterate something I say almost daily. All the ghouls are on the same team.

This was a month ago. The people at this party is very telling or it should be.

Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner Attend Jeff Bezos Party | PEOPLE.com | PEOPLE.com

 

[á´…eparted]

I think this is a tag team thing, I think it's been a scam they've both been running (with Trump's blessing) since the beginning.

I thought this as well, but I find it hard to see how Trump would be ok with it. It kinda adds up, but not quite. I also don't see how doing it this way would benefit Trump, unless George is completely being dishonest with his opinions.

Then again, cognitive dissonance seems to have no limits with how wide it can go in authoratarians so maybe it is possible.

Either way, I don't think either conway is worth listening to, or have they been. If George actually cared, he'd leave his wife despite the conseqences.

 

[á´…eparted]

I just want to reiterate something I say almost daily. All the ghouls are on the same team.

This was a month ago. The people at this party is very telling or it should be.

Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner Attend Jeff Bezos Party | PEOPLE.com | PEOPLE.com

I haven't bought anything from amazon in 3 years because it became evident the company is evil at it's core with likely very evil ambitions. I really, really wish people would stop buying anything from them, but I understand that's not feasible for many.

This doesn't surprise me at all to see, and I've largely thought the spats between Bezos and the Trump admin are a dog and pony show.

 

[á´…eparted]

Nancy Pelosi provided a single word "Yes." when asked if she'd be comfortable with Sanders as the nominee. Schumer stated there a lot of strong nominees and any one could beat trump.

People seem to be seeing what they want to see in this, but the biggest take away is the high democratic leaders are not going to write off any one nominee, which is very important and very good news. They retain prospective that Trump must be beaten.