Trump vs. Bernie

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The racism criticism seems to have little evidence behind it. As to sexism, I believe he addressed that in the last debate pretty effectively. I know of no evidence whatsoever of corruption. What evidence do you have of any of these things?

Oh right, the "consensual" signing of the NDAs.

 

[highlander]

Oh right, the "consensual" signing of the NDAs.

That's what you call sexism?

 

[á´…eparted]

Also, I really caution anyone from watching The Hill and Rising. It's a great way to work yourself up into a lather and while their presentations are often from a well intended prospective, it's too heated and "we win you lose" based. You're far better off getting news and sources from elsewhere.

It should also give you pause who started Rising in the first place. The left (we) can be mislead just as easily as the right.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That's what you call sexism?

If he wasn't sexist, why the NDAs? And NDAs in general (granted, I'm thinking more around IP type stuff then harassment) are often part of a situation where if you don't sign them, you don't get the job, or you lose the job if you have it already. Weird definition of consent there.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Look, to both of you. I get it. I really get it. Who Bloomberg actually is is not the least bit lost on me, as I said in my post higher up to vote him in likely just lengthens the timeline to a fascist dictatorship.

With Trump though, it will happen far faster, and far more severely, and likely in a way that truly could not be undone for generations, possibly ever given the threat of climate change. Trump is a 100% vote for doom. Bloomberg is a high likelyhood of doom, with a chance for people to prepare, and in some cases GTFO of the country before it blows up.

Really, take some time to temper your anger over him. If it takes weeks or months, then give it that time. Also remember that it's still early in the primary season. Bloomberg is still unlikely to get it, and we can take solace in that. The anger is justified, and needs to be felt and expressed as these are trying and exhausting times for all of us. When it comes down to it though, it really is true that anyone currently running is a far better option than Trump. That HAS to remain in prospective, no matter what. Too much is at stake.

He'd mean we'd never have a non-billionaire president again. (Which I'm sure some of the people in this thread are fine with, but probably not you.)

The one thing that might convince me to change my mind is climate change and the fact that he believes in that.

 

[á´…eparted]

He'd mean we'd never have a non-billionaire president again. (Which I'm sure some of the people in this thread are fine with, but probably not you.)

The one thing that might convince me to change my mind is climate change and the fact that he believes in that.

If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

As I said, Trump is a 100% vote for doom. Fascists like death, and ignoring climate change is a great way to cull the population, and it will affect foreign countries they don't like first. It really has wide appeal to them for a lot of reasons. Let's also not forget Trump rolling back countless environmental regulations for no good reason at all. If he gets in again say goodbye to the clean air act, and we're continuing to learn how dangerous bad air is.

Just one of many things Trump will do to ensure suffering.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

As I said, Trump is a 100% vote for doom. Fascists like death, and ignoring climate change is a great way to cull the population. Let's also not forget Trump rolling back countless environmental regulations for no good reason at all. If he gets in again say goodbye to the clean air act, and we're continuing to learn how dangerous bad air is.

Just one of many things Trump will do to ensure suffering.

but if trump lozes i might not get another tax cut. don't want socialist extremists running up the deficit with excessive spending; want sane moderate capitalists running up the deficit with excessive tax cuts and the occasional war or two. free deomcrazy for iran! iranian women hawt without urqas!

besides i can always buy oxygen bar for air.

also, trump has reasons for rolling back regulations; more money for big business. once he gaves all the big business money hell put in some antirturst and give social democracy (but not the woke kind that doesn't lock kids in cages) to the us. he needs to give the big businessess free stuff so they can support his socal democray. trump will write a law that gives a billion dollars to people born on october 5 (which just happens to be my birthday, but i think astrologically its the most auspicious; its the birfday of ppl who will make best use of money).

 

[rav3n]

Here's a breakdown of the Dem Nevada Caucus results:

Nevada Caucus Results 2020 | Live Election Map | Voting by County & District

• Bernie Sanders 46.8%
• Joe Biden 20.2%
• Peter Buttigieg 14.3%
• Elizabeth Warren 9.7%
• Tom Steyer 4.7%
• Amy Klobuchar 4.2%
• Uncommitted 0.0%
• Tulsi Gabbard 0.0%
• Others 0.0%

It's a decent thermometer for the mood of the people.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Here's a breakdown of the Dem Nevada Caucus results:

Nevada Caucus Results 2020 | Live Election Map | Voting by County & District

• Bernie Sanders 46.8%
• Joe Biden 20.2%
• Peter Buttigieg 14.3%
• Elizabeth Warren 9.7%
• Tom Steyer 4.7%
• Amy Klobuchar 4.2%
• Uncommitted 0.0%
• Tulsi Gabbard 0.0%
• Others 0.0%

It's a decent thermometer for the mood of the people.

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION], is his ceiling now 46.8 instead of in the 20s? How did you say this wasn't like the 2016 Republican primaries again? Maybe it's a bouncy ceiling, like in one of those castles. That would account for the change in height.

He won well over the majority of delegates in Nevada, by the way. If that pattern can hold in most states, I'll bet the math comes down on him getting the nom, and there's nothing the DNC can do to stop it.

 

[Nicodemus]

Better to have a guy who used to lavish praise on communism and went on his honeymoon to Russia?
Bernie Sanders’ relationship with socialism and communism - Baltimore Sun

Interesting parallels to post-WWI Germany, don't you think? The choice before the people was always: communism or nationalism. We all know how that turned out. I'm not saying Trump wants to invade Europe and kill six millions jews, but he would clearly love to become dictator and has demonstrated a great appetite for the suffering of immigrants.

 

[meowington]

I dont think their solutions are practical. Look at the wealth tax and how successful it was in the countries where it was tried in Europe. And no I'm not a socialist.

Over here in Belgium the tax shift wasn't a big success. Basically because it wasn't a shift to begin with and secondly because it was implemented by a liberal + nationalist government (that means "anything but socialist" over here).
Kind of like leaving a wealth tax to Warren + Trump and pointing to Sanders when it's not working.

The main reason these wealth taxes are deemed impractical is because they are very hard to administer and enforce in a rigged system, to begin with.

 

[highlander]

Interesting parallels to post-WWI Germany, don't you think? The choice before the people was always: communism or nationalism. We all know how that turned out. I'm not saying Trump wants to invade Europe and kill six millions jews, but he would clearly love to become dictator and has demonstrated a great appetite for the suffering of immigrants.

I do see the parallels. Have been thinking that.

 

[highlander]

Over here in Belgium the tax shift wasn't a big success. Basically because it wasn't a shift to begin with and secondly because it was implemented by a liberal + nationalist government (that means "anything but socialist" over here). Kind of like leaving a wealth tax to Warren + Trump and pointing to Sanders when it's not working. The main reason these wealth taxes are deemed impractical is because they are very hard to administer and enforce in a rigged system, to begin with.

Yes. Everything I have have read or heard about it is that it doesnt work 4 European countries still have a wealth tax. Here'''s how it'''s going. - Business Insider.. So why would someone advocate for something that wont work? Either they are stupid or they are telling peole what they want to hear. Which one is it? I have a pretty good guess.

The thing is, the US isnt France or Belgium. The wealth tax would drive the capital of all those those rich people - in the richest country in the world btw - overseas. That's capital that can be used for investment, can be spent, given to charities. can use used to start companies or invest in the stock market etc. Bonus for the rest of the world. Disaster for the US economy. To look at an analogy, do you know what happens when you start taxing corporations, businesses and individuals at a higher rate than competing geographies? They leave. Look at Illinois vs Florida as an example. When the tax base goes down because people and wealth generators leave, it only increases the burden on the people who are left. Of course with all the borrowed money for all those forgiven school loans, free tuition and free healthcare - who does everyone think is going to pick up the tab? We will see massive tax increases unlike anything we've seen since the 1970s.

 

[meowington]

So why would someone advocate for something that wont work?

Again, it's like Warren + Trump creating a tax shift and pointing to Sanders when it does not work. That does not render the necessity for it obsolete. It just shows once more how deeply rooted inequality really is.

 

[Nicodemus]

So why would someone advocate for something that wont work? Either they are stupid or they are telling peole what they want to hear. Which one is it? I have a pretty good guess.

To look at an analogy, do you know what happens when you start taxing corporations, businesses and individuals at a higher rate that competing geographies? They leave. Look at Illinois vs Florida as an example. When the tax base goes down because people and wealth generators leave, it only increases the burden on the people who are left.

Interesting juxtaposition given that the concept you seem to be implying here, the miracle of trickle-down economics, has also never worked, yet continues to be advocated for.

 

[Nicodemus]

Just watched this program, which shows Bernie is a more intimate setting:

 

[highlander]

Interesting juxtaposition given that the concept you seem to be implying here, the miracle of trickle-down economics, has also never worked, yet continues to be advocate for.

I'm not supporting trickle down economics. I'm just pointing out the flaws in a taxation policy - the wealth tax specifically - that is most certain to backfire. Governments historically have proven to be inept with how they spend money. I can look no further than my own state that has bankrupted itself through pension obligations that can never be repaid (average debt of $90,000 per household related to these pensions). I advocate lower taxes and lower public spending. All politicians seem to know how to do is spend money. It's how they get elected. The problem is people are stupid enough to believe the promises and not think there is a cost. The politicians promise what they need to get elected and seem expert in spending money (including Trump) but fiscal responsibility doesn't seem to fit into the picture. I'm glad they are starting to think about the environment now that we're close to destroying it.

 

[Jaguar]

I didnt like her before because of her policy positions. I lost all respect for her after her performance in the last debate. What purpose does it serve to attempt to humiliate Bloomberg in the way she did? From a person who has an estimated net worth of 12M who advertises herself as a former teacher. She is a hypocrite. The thing about demanding him to share NDAs of third parties is pure bullshit grandstanding. As an attorney she knows better. The crap about him not sharing his taxes is also BS. I'm sure he will release them soon. It was all rhetoric plain and simple and when I smell BS and unfairness, it pisses me off. How did Bloomberg react to her cheap shots? Did he come across as arrogant billionaire she referred to? I think he came across with humility and dignity - stating clear and reasonable positions. He talked about how is is giving his money away. Not sexy but true.

She took this specific quote from Bloomberg, said in 1990:

“The Royal family — what a bunch of misfits — a gay, an architect, that horsey faced lesbian, and a kid who gave up Koo Stark for some fat broad.”

And turned it into this generalized description of Bloomberg on the debate stage:

"A billionaire who calls women 'fat broads' and 'horse-faced lesbians.'"


Honesty is not exactly her strong suit.

 

[highlander]

She took this specific quote from Bloomberg, said in 1990:

“The Royal family — what a bunch of misfits — a gay, an architect, that horsey faced lesbian, and a kid who gave up Koo Stark for some fat broad.”

And turned it into this generalized description of Bloomberg on the debate stage:

"A billionaire who calls women 'fat broads' and 'horse-faced lesbians.'"


Honesty is not exactly her strong suit.

Yes, it was from a leather bound book compiled by the Chief Marketing Officer at his company on behalf of the employees as a "gag gift" intended to roast him on his 48th birthday.

I wonder if Trump's employees wrote something like that about him, as an endearing gesture to a boss they admired - or was he just grabbing women's pussies.

 

[á´…eparted]

I'm not supporting trickle down economics.

You really are though. Or at least, you desire politicans who will continue it.

Trickle down assumes the wealthy and their corporations and orginzations will have societies best interests in mind. Nearly all don't. As such, it can't work. Human nature for the next century at least won't allow it.

With government spending, at least you can attempt to impart control and regulations to work against human nature. You have better odds of success because of that alone.