anticlimatic
Permabanned
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3,293
- MBTI Type
- INTP
Help me out here. These two posts seem fundamentally incompatible. Either you think this big people machine we live in should be a fair and impartial system, or you think the weak/unfortunate SHOULD get used/chewed up/spit out in order to make the stronger/more fortunate more comfortable. (Or you're exceptionally self-absorbed enough to think we should all live in a system that's fair and impartial to you and fuck whether it's fair and impartial to everyone else, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming there's something more to understand here).
That second quote above very much sounds like you're referring to the poor schlubs who take back-breaking jobs that don't pay as much as they should, simply because they need to eat (and eating ramen every day is better than starving). It keeps them trapped in a miserable level of poverty, living paycheck to paycheck, where they never get further than worrying about how to put food on the table for the rest of the week and/or making rent. It sounds like you're calling them "disgusting and pathetic" for simply being born into circumstances that trap them in poverty at a young age, and they should basically quietly crawl into a hole and die for being so weak. Because you believe they should be able to pull themselves out of it (bootstraps and whatnot), and anyone who doesn't.... deserves what they get?
There's one important item I think is missing from your "fair and impartial system" list, and it seems to be a major hiccup in these discussions: 3) Pay me what my labor is worth, and don't exploit the fact that I'll work for far less because you have the upper hand and it's legally available. You folks on the right don't seem even remotely willing to acknowledge such a thing is possible. Even though it's literally killing people (e.g. when they can't afford medical care, back-breaking work that destroys their bodies at a young age), and/or keeping people trapped in a remarkably substandard quality of life. Studies have proven that the human brain can't effectively strategize/plan for the future when it's constantly already exhausted by scarcity. The psychology of scarcity. The Scarcity Mindset: How does being poor change the way we feel and think? The Science of Scarcity.
And you people on the right, it's like you stick your fingers in your ears at this point and "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA THEY'RE NOT TRAPPED HAVEN'T READ THE STUDIES, NO NEED TO, DOESN'T CONFIRM WHAT I BELIEVE LA LA." <- That's you guys. It's like dealing with flat-earthers. As long as there are enough of you out there chanting this back and forth at each other, you can continue to believe it. Or something. But that doesn't make the belief true. The fact that there are people living that way doesn't change just because a bunch of people refuse to believe it's true. The affect of scarcity on the human mind has been thoroughly researched.
Another thing that's confusing though is that you're calling them the "takers". Walmart pays their employees so little that they require government assistance. The owners, the Walton Family, pull in millions of dollars every hour. Are you telling me this is from their "hard work" - that they spend every single hour they're pulling in millions working "really hard" - and that the people who work for them (whose labor earns them that money) are the "takers" because they receive government assistance? This is why Bernie et al keep calling it corporate socialism - the government is helping pay for the labor that rakes in money for people like the Waltons. Back-breaking jobs - like at the Amazon warehouse - put people on disability before retirement age; the government is helping pay for Jeff Bezos' income. And yet you don't perceive people like the Waltons or Bezos as the "takers"?
I'd be happy to help you out. Assuming you're one of the leftists, we likely do not have the same definition of 'fair.' For the sake of (avoiding) argument, lets just pretend I didn't use that word at all, and just stick to the later in that sentence- 'impartial,' or better yet 'indifferent.' The same system that entire rest of the planet and animal kingdom abide in. I believe in individuals, not a 'big machine of people.' Thinking of millions of individuals in terms like that is how INTJ movie villains are made. People who want to control other people are not people I find endearing, worth looking up to, or happy. I prefer to focus my will to control things on things in which that is actually possible, and recommend this practice in general for everyone for the sake of their mental health- which essentially just comes down to worldview. If you don't understand why people on the right are the way they are, and navigate life with the principals and disciplines that they do, I don't think you quite understand it. Most of us are brutal logicians, and just because we couldn't care less about the same things people on the left care about, doesn't make us 'flat earthers' about those things. As an INTP I get systems- truly- I get how people on the left feel: that for society to work everyone needs to work together; every individual needs to work for the group- or in more moderate leftist circles the group and the individual. I can see the same 'big machine' that you see- and all of the endless bottlenecks, weak points, broken parts, overcharged parts, neglected parts, etc- but in the great chess game of life I am not interested in touching that rook. It's one pawn forward at a time for me.
Also, what are these back breaking jobs that don't pay bank?
Also, who says you have to work for anyone but the customer?
I'd say more, but I have to run.