The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Tellenbach]

The issue isn't between those work hard and those who do not, but those who inherit wealth and those who do not.

Your side makes no such distinction. Democrats oppose income disparity no matter if it's merit based or not.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Your side makes no such distinction. Democrats oppose income disparity no matter if it's merit based or not.

Thanks for telling me what I believe. I was quite mistaken.

 

[Tellenbach]

Democrat orthodoxy, when carefully scrutinized by a rational person, is nonsense. When Pocahontas or Crazy Bernie talk about income disparity, they never distinguish between merit based income or inherited income. If you disagree, then we welcome you to the rational side.

 

[Maou]

What about inherited wealth vs. acquired wealth? I was able to go to grad school and do other things to develop my skills to the point where I could more than double my past salary only because my parents could afford to have me live there for a few years. I might have been able to manage grad school and some other job, but I don't think I could have managed all the unpaid effort I put into various software development projects and learning opportunities. Some of that stuff consumed most of my time.

Isn't that the entire American dream in a nutshell? Living with your parents to save money isn't weird globally, and expected in most countries. The American dream is to provide a future for your kids, based on your hard work. With each generation getting better. It is way easier to succeed in USA, that most countries. Sure not everyone will, but the potential is always there. Imagine doubling your salary without your parents. That's also possible. I have done it myself. So I know America is not broken, peoples attitudes are.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Democrat orthodoxy, when carefully scrutinized by a rational person, is nonsense. When Pocahontas or Crazy Bernie talk about income disparity, they never distinguish between merit based income or inherited income. If you disagree, then we welcome you to the rational side.

I guess the relevant question, then, is whether the 1% is the 1% because of merit or because of inherited income. I think in the majority of cases it is probably inherited, like Donnie.

 

[The Cat]

I remember when America was We the people. Wild.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I remember when America was We the people. Wild.

No, it's a reality TV star who got a million dollars from his dad exhibiting symptoms of tertiary syphilis. Get your facts straight.

 

[Jaguar]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[The Cat]

No, it's a reality TV star who got a million dollars from his dad exhibiting symptoms of tertiary syphilis. Get your facts straight.

This is American politics there's no room for facts here, only opinions. Get your facts bent.

 

[Yuurei]

Those who claim to want 'merit-based' income are flat out lying.

Some 20-something, douchebag working at a starter company where he rolls into work around 9 or 10 am, sends a few E-mails, goes to lunch at some $100 dollar a plate restaurant steak and lobster restaurant to schmooz people even richer than himself, goes back to 'work' for about an hour where he sits at his desk doing nothing but talking up some product he doesn't even work on then clocks out around four thirty everyday is paid $250k a yr, plus the best health insurgence-including dental, gets 3 square meals a day-free., discounts at every gym and restaurant in town, free public transportation-which he doesn't use because since he has NO expenses he just bought whatever douchebag vehicle he wanted- but he doesn't have to worry about toll roads because of the little sticker on his car that work gave him. Three weeks paid vacation, unlimited health/mental health days, which go real well with his hotel travel discounts. And best of all, an extra $4k for every new, entitled, resource-consuming, squalling little brat he brings into the world.

You think this is fine.

But some poor slob busting their ass at two or three minimum wage jobs where they have no say in their schedule and often work overtime without pay, and you also think that is fine.

Society tells you the former is more valuable than the later, against all basic reasoning and you just go with it. Who's the real 'sheeple' My God, I never thought I'd use that word after age 15 again)

Admit that 'merit- based' just means 'me and mine' you think you DESERVE more money because you think YOU'RE good people. (Or "Alpha's" or whatever dumbass MRA wording you want to use.) meanwhile THEY, people you don't like-regardless of how hard they actually work-do not deserve anything simply because they are not on your side.

It is nothing more than the age-old concept of 'us v them' been around since the caveman days. Proof that as a species humans really have not evolved much at all. Rather, most haven't.

 

[Tellenbach]

I guess the relevant question, then, is whether the 1% is the 1% because of merit or because of inherited income. I think in the majority of cases it is probably inherited, like Donnie.

That's not the relevant question. It's more important to ask yourself why rich people bother you so much. I don't care if there billionaires around. I just want opportunities for myself and all Americans. Democrats destroy opportunities through over-regulation, high taxes, and stupid policies like the minimum wage.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That's not the relevant question. It's more important to ask yourself why rich people bother you so much. I don't care if there billionaires around. I just want opportunities for myself and all Americans. Democrats destroy opportunities through over-regulation, high taxes, and stupid policies like the minimum wage.

I care because they help write the laws that are passed. If they stayed out of politics, maybe I wouldn't care so much.

 

[Tellenbach]

I care because they help write the laws that are passed. If they stayed out of politics, maybe I wouldn't care so much.

Bill Gates and Microsoft stayed out of politics initially until the Government said that bundling IE with its OS is illegal and fined MS. I'm not sure why it's the government's business if Microsoft wants to give away free software, but this is why corporations get involved in lobbying; they don't want to get screwed by the government.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Bill Gates and Microsoft stayed out of politics initially until the Government said that bundling IE with its OS is illegal and fined MS. I'm not sure why it's the government's business if Microsoft wants to give away free software, but this is why corporations get involved in lobbying; they don't want to get screwed by the government.

Hmm, the problem with that is that it sounds like it will need to a new form of aristocracy if it doesn't exist already.

 

[Tellenbach]

Hmm, the problem with that is that it sounds like it will need to a new form of aristocracy if it doesn't exist already.

The problem is us. Voters keep electing assholes to public office - people like Crazy Bernie and Nancy Pelosi. The first change that has to occur is a nation-wide effort to teach ethics and morals to children. Democrats run the public schools and they don't much care about "right and wrong", so now we have an entire generation of unethical people voting in other unethical people.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Democrats run the public schools and they don't much care about "right and wrong", so now we have an entire generation of unethical people voting in other unethical people.

Umm, lots of Republicans vote for someone they think is unethical if they think it will make the people they don't like upset.

i would agree that teaching ethics and morals is important, but I don't think people who gleefully voted for Trump based on the criteria above are the people who should be designing that particular curriculum.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Are you people familiar with the dark triad?

Dark triad - Wikipedia

Of course they are (we had threads about it). However American problem is in Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Therefore when you mess up this in the name of "ultra individualistic" ideology you basically end up with dark triad all over the place.
What only gets worse as other countries challenge you more and more, since your society is chaos of people fighting to acquire basic needs from Maslow's pyramid. What is dark triad almost by definition.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Im not sure how complicated morality has to be. I wouldn't say I have a particular ideology that I think would work for everyone, but I have one for myself that I feel can fit it almost everywhere- so long as it's a fair and impartial system. I only ask two things of my community and society:

1) Leave me alone and get out of my way so I can work.
and
2) Let me keep what I earn, and don't try to steal it.

I don't think that's too much to ask. I'm happy to pay taxes for public services- so long as they're services I have a stake or interest in using someday.

Everything in the world preys on the weak- the market is no exception. I don't think it creates these sheeple- I think it exposes them. It should be allowed to finish them off, but now they seem to be glomming together and clamoring for other people's resources they did not earn- demanding theft by gunpoint at legal levels and attempting to use mob-rule democracy to justify this theft. It's as disgusting and pathetic as they are.

Help me out here. These two posts seem fundamentally incompatible. Either you think this big people machine we live in should be a fair and impartial system, or you think the weak/unfortunate SHOULD get used/chewed up/spit out in order to make the stronger/more fortunate more comfortable. (Or you're exceptionally self-absorbed enough to think we should all live in a system that's fair and impartial to you and fuck whether it's fair and impartial to everyone else, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming there's something more to understand here).

That second quote above very much sounds like you're referring to the poor schlubs who take back-breaking jobs that don't pay as much as they should, simply because they need to eat (and eating ramen every day is better than starving). It keeps them trapped in a miserable level of poverty, living paycheck to paycheck, where they never get further than worrying about how to put food on the table for the rest of the week and/or making rent. It sounds like you're calling them "disgusting and pathetic" for simply being born into circumstances that trap them in poverty at a young age, and they should basically quietly crawl into a hole and die for being so weak. Because you believe they should be able to pull themselves out of it (bootstraps and whatnot), and anyone who doesn't.... deserves what they get?

There's one important item I think is missing from your "fair and impartial system" list, and it seems to be a major hiccup in these discussions: 3) Pay me what my labor is worth, and don't exploit the fact that I'll work for far less because you have the upper hand and it's legally available. You folks on the right don't seem even remotely willing to acknowledge such a thing is possible. Even though it's literally killing people (e.g. when they can't afford medical care, back-breaking work that destroys their bodies at a young age), and/or keeping people trapped in a remarkably substandard quality of life. Studies have proven that the human brain can't effectively strategize/plan for the future when it's constantly already exhausted by scarcity. The psychology of scarcity. The Scarcity Mindset: How does being poor change the way we feel and think? The Science of Scarcity.

How Scarcity Trap Affects Our Thinking, Behavior
Poverty leads people to focus on short term goals while ignoring the long view.
Your Brain on Poverty: Why Poor People Seem to Make Bad Decisions.

And you people on the right, it's like you stick your fingers in your ears at this point and "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA THEY'RE NOT TRAPPED HAVEN'T READ THE STUDIES, NO NEED TO, DOESN'T CONFIRM WHAT I BELIEVE LA LA." <- That's you guys. It's like dealing with flat-earthers. As long as there are enough of you out there chanting this back and forth at each other, you can continue to believe it. Or something. But that doesn't make the belief true. The fact that there are people living that way doesn't change just because a bunch of people refuse to believe it's true. The affect of scarcity on the human mind has been thoroughly researched.

Another thing that's confusing though is that you're calling them the "takers". Walmart pays their employees so little that they require government assistance. The owners, the Walton Family, pull in millions of dollars every hour. Are you telling me this is from their "hard work" - that they spend every single hour they're pulling in millions working "really hard" - and that the people who work for them (whose labor earns them that money) are the "takers" because they receive government assistance? This is why Bernie et al keep calling it corporate socialism - the government is helping pay for the labor that rakes in money for people like the Waltons. Back-breaking jobs - like at the Amazon warehouse - put people on disability before retirement age; the government is helping pay for Jeff Bezos' income. And yet you don't perceive people like the Waltons or Bezos as the "takers"?

 

[Jaguar]

Baby Trump balloon knifed in Alabama | TheHill

 

[Jaguar]

What happened to the post telling people they were full of shit? It vanished. lol.