Is it a personal offense for someone to question your type?

[Forever]

Type me threads are pretty useless since people only want to be typed as the types they want to be and if you provide a different type, shit hits the fan, lol.

Fast and hard requote

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Like if image/identity types tend to exaggerate the stereotypes...is it say...possible that a mistyped ENFP is more likely to trouble/cause more damage to an accurately typed ENFP than mistyped INFJ will for an accurately typed INFJ? (hopefully that makes sense). idk. Basically it is a question of how damaging the stereotypes are to the type maybe. Like, if there was a member constantly talking about how psychic they are and how they are just under Jesus...directly above Mother Teressa (I don't know what I'm saying but hopefully you get it...actually now that I think of it...this is how SilkRoad got the whole "I love doorslaming" haha..)...like how damaging is that overall? ENFP females being the sexiest women alive and wanting it every-way-since-Sunday 24/7 is a stereotype that really leaves me biting my nails...which I finally said something about in this new environment and earned myself a prude reputation with that one...which won't be as easy to make cool in my mind but I do prefer it to willing sex slave. Happy all the time...goofy all the time...these also concern me some.

I've also seen relationship advice from mistypes that causes me to be like omfg if that person actually makes use of that advice the relationship will be worse...but what can you do? And again I'm not talking about "according to me"...I'm talking about..."according to any basic ENFP description".

It sounds like from what you said though that there's nothing that can be done or should be done.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by damage. But there are lots of people who seem inaccurately typed to me (I've told you before, you're one of them! I think ADD/ADHD gets too often mistaken for Ne), and I don't see much point beyond simply stating my opinion and then not bringing it up again. And I rarely state the opinion before a person has posted some kind of type me thread. It's kind of like, if I see a ball in front of me that looks red - and someone else is calling it their blue ball - I might mention that it looks red to me (because it does) but then I think it's important to let go of any need for that person to see that ball the way I see it. They don't, for whatever reason. No matter how clearly red it looks to me. So especially when dealing with something far more abstract than visually perceiving a color - yeah, I think it's important to let go of any need for others to see it the way we do.

There have been more than a few NFs over the years going on and on about having idealistic qualities they actually clearly don't have (they'll insist they excel at certain skills while directly demonstrating they're clueless), or NTs who go on about how rational or intelligent they are (while demonstrating the opposite/tunnel vision) - and though it may feel like a slow death to spend much time reading their posts (for the reason I explained in the previous post: environments that are really thick in identity affirmation feel stifling and dissuade me from sticking around, just as I'm sure I have sleepy qualities that similarly effect others) - I wouldn't use the word damaging to describe their effect. Unsatisfying and sleepy maybe, but not really damaging? Or if the INFJs (they identify as such anyway) at the INFJ forum of several years ago were the only INFJs I were ever exposed to - then I'd seriously doubt I was INFJ; so it'd damage credibility of the system, but nothing beyond that.

I think I might understand what you mean by 'damage' in regard to relationship advice - but I mean, even if every single person in the forum were typed accurately, it would STILL cause damage to take any type-related relationship advice (regardless of the type of relationship) too seriously. Even throwing enneagram into the mix - which certainly helps narrow it down, but not ever enough to make it fool proof. There's some that's good, some that's bad - and the most we can do, I think, is contribute what we perceive to be the best advice with what we know to the pot.

MBTI is often sold as a way to understand others - but most people seem to take it so far overboard that it circles back around into gross misunderstanding. And I personally think that taking it too seriously does more damage in this regard than people putting forth incorrect stereotypes about it? Even the moderately correct stereotypes do harm. So I just kinda take the discussion that actually seems insightful where I can find it.

 

[Starry]

Yeah... this is a big reason why I've stopped posting in 'Hey xxxx's, how do you deal with this / why do you do this?' types of threads... because I can't legitimately speak on behalf of a type anymore. I mean, don't get me wrong, I can legitimately speak for myself and feel I know myself pretty well, and I think I have a pretty good comprehension of all of the functions and theory, but I've also received many different typings from many people who also have a good grasp of the theory, such that I don't actually feel any confidence whatsoever that I actually AM a specific type. haha. And... it actually doesn't bother me.

Also, I've seen it where someone takes cognitive theory/mbti so seriously that they are actually the ones who are pigeonholing the person (their S.O. or friend or whomever they're having an issue with) they're trying to 'fix' things with in such a way that it makes me cringe. This s.o. is becoming a set of 8 functions unbeknownst to them, and very often might be assigned a type (unbeknownst to them) and treated as said type even if ... gasp... what if they aren't actually that type ? They buy into the theory so much that they're basically viewing their s.o. or whomever as a black and white box to flip the Ne switch on because that might help this or to not do this because then their inferior whatever will explode... I mean it's crazy. But that's just me. haha.

Edit: Though to your point re mbti used by the masses being designed for not knowing a person well -- ie we naturally group/type people anyway, and it can often be easy to superficially lump people into a specific group. Which is why... yah superficially in a corporate setting, years ago I was in the INxJ category, nowadays I don't know. Superficially could still be either INxJ or else any IxxP flavor (except istp) depending on the setting and what people are seeing. (I'm not trying to be obtuse here;I'm just not extremely anything other than introverted)

I really appreciate you taking the time to post this. These are questions I’ve always kinda had in the back of my mind but have never been able to formulate enough of an opinion on to know if they were even worth asking if that makes sense so it’s nice to hear from someone that has formulated a conclusion...or has reconciled what they see before and is comfortable in how they proceed from there.

Yah, most relationship questions don’t appear to have a true type-related dilemma in them in spite of maybe saying “help with ENFP partner” or whatever...but every once and a while they do and I’ve always wondered about this because I’m not normal like normal people are. I haven’t been a part of all that many of these precisely because I get nervous due to this very thing and subsequently haven’t encountered one yet where I thought the person was taking type too seriously. Hell, if I did I’d probably *offend* them by telling them so (I’ve worked in academia my whole life where it would be unthinkable to not offer someone the correct answer if you had it or your opinion so the person had more to work with). I’ve encountered some where I’ve come to believe the partner isn’t accurately typed...but when it’s one of those when you’re just like...oh shit....now that I know about this what’s my responsibility?

EPs have the least amount of type variation and so there’s a lot less risk involved for me but I still always offer advice from the type...not me. But I don’t imagine I’m very smooth with it. Yah it really helps to get your take on it.

I’m actually surprised more people don’t challenge my type. I mean, I think those deep into theory and stuff know like “yah, she’s awful...she’s accurately typed”. But the fluffy bunny is something I don’t understand and don’t know what to do with sometimes so thank you.

 

[cascadeco]

I haven’t been a part of all that many of these precisely because I get nervous due to this very thing and subsequently haven’t encountered one yet where I thought the person was taking type too seriously. Hell, if I did I’d probably *offend* them by telling them so (I’ve worked in academia my whole life where it would be unthinkable to not offer someone the correct answer if you had it or your opinion so the person had more to work with). I’ve encountered some where I’ve come to believe the partner isn’t accurately typed...but when it’s one of those when you’re just like...oh shit....now that I know about this what’s my responsibility?

Well I think in many relationship or interpersonal issue threads, type is being used as the end-all-be-all solution or means of understanding when most times I don't think type needs to be brought into the picture at all, or there's like I said the big possibility that the person isn't even understanding and thus typing the person-at-issue correctly in the first place. So it just becomes a landmine when you read that they're now going to do such and such because they're working under the belief that this person is X type. And I go... . I've definitely questioned the underlying assumptions in the past in such threads, or more often just started going the 'It's not a type thing, it's probably this or this instead', and the same thing happens as is being discussed in this actual thread re being 'offended' at ones own type being questioned -- the person becomes more and more adamant that it IS a type thing, they ARE this type, and so on. And...what can you do. I'll exit threads at this point. Let them 'solve' their relationship issues based on what they're assuming. Type is, after all, an 'easy' go-to for finding an 'easy' miracle answer to things.

 

[rav3n]

Typing, relative to advice, can be a handy shorthand tool. It's when it becomes a crutch is when it becomes useless.

Shorthand tool eg:

Since they're a Ti dom, appeal to their logic.

Crutch eg:

Cut bait since as a Ti-dom, they have no feelings.

 

[1487610420]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] if a tree falls in a forest, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it need your help to make a sound?

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] if a tree falls in a forest, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it need your help to make a sound?

Oh god it’s terrible isn’t it.

There’s a part in the movie Groundhogs day where he’s made an assessment of all the things that go wrong and for a while he spends that same day running from situation to situation trying to keep everyone from harm. I relate to that scene more than I care to admit...

You know me well.

 

[1487610420]

Oh god it’s terrible isn’t it.

There’s a part in the movie Groundhogs day where he’s made an assessment of all the things that go wrong and for a while he spends that same day running from situation to situation trying to keep everyone from harm. I relate to that scene more than I care to admit...

You know me well.

S'ok.

 

[Starry]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by damage. But there are lots of people who seem inaccurately typed to me (I've told you before, you're one of them! I think ADD/ADHD gets too often mistaken for Ne), and I don't see much point beyond simply stating my opinion and then not bringing it up again. And I rarely state the opinion before a person has posted some kind of type me thread. It's kind of like, if I see a ball in front of me that looks red - and someone else is calling it their blue ball - I might mention that it looks red to me (because it does) but then I think it's important to let go of any need for that person to see that ball the way I see it. They don't, for whatever reason. No matter how clearly red it looks to me. So especially when dealing with something far more abstract than visually perceiving a color - yeah, I think it's important to let go of any need for others to see it the way we do.

There have been more than a few NFs over the years going on and on about having idealistic qualities they actually clearly don't have (they'll insist they excel at certain skills while directly demonstrating they're clueless), or NTs who go on about how rational or intelligent they are (while demonstrating the opposite/tunnel vision) - and though it may feel like a slow death to spend much time reading their posts (for the reason I explained in the previous post: environments that are really thick in identity affirmation feel stifling and dissuade me from sticking around, just as I'm sure I have sleepy qualities that similarly effect others) - I wouldn't use the word damaging to describe their effect. Unsatisfying and sleepy maybe, but not really damaging? Or if the INFJs (they identify as such anyway) at the INFJ forum of several years ago were the only INFJs I were ever exposed to - then I'd seriously doubt I was INFJ; so it'd damage credibility of the system, but nothing beyond that.

I think I might understand what you mean by 'damage' in regard to relationship advice - but I mean, even if every single person in the forum were typed accurately, it would STILL cause damage to take any type-related relationship advice (regardless of the type of relationship) too seriously. Even throwing enneagram into the mix - which certainly helps narrow it down, but not ever enough to make it fool proof. There's some that's good, some that's bad - and the most we can do, I think, is contribute what we perceive to be the best advice with what we know to the pot.

MBTI is often sold as a way to understand others - but most people seem to take it so far overboard that it circles back around into gross misunderstanding. And I personally think that taking it too seriously does more damage in this regard than people putting forth incorrect stereotypes about it? Even the moderately correct stereotypes do harm. So I just kinda take the discussion that actually seems insightful where I can find it.

I have been thinking about the word ‘damage’. I mean, okay I think what happened ha was my car was hit in the parking lot (I wasn’t in it) but I have been having to describe “the damage”...I had to send in a photo of “the damage”...so that word was on the brain. But I’m not sure yet if the word entirely unfitting. If members can claim that being typed with a type that doesn’t fit into their image of who they are hurtful...then I imagine there being an equivalent on the other side. The damage to my car was minor...but they still called it damage.

With what I’ve seen and experienced...it doesn’t much matter that *as long as you type nice at a nice time you won’t be penalized by the mods*...because I would actually prefer that than being subject to gossip, ridicule etc. So I’ll never do it again. And in this way I do think the system takes a hit. I mean, people need to learn how to do this if they want to make use of this tool if the want to implement/incorporate it into their lives...and I’m glad I was able to do it before you ran the risk of “damaging” someone with your unfavorable opinion. Based on the kind of system it is alone it would be my wish that people could see it for what it is...because I think...I know there’s a lot of benefit to be had. It’s a powerful tool that’s kinda dulled when people feel limited but whatever.

I’m here to talk shop and make learning curve mistakes but feel I best just post songs and pretend the sky is green

I didn’t know you still thought that! I have tested INFJ a couple times and am the sociosonics INFJ. I agree too about ADD.

I remember once someone typing me counterphobic 6...so I think I explained about the counterphobic wing and how what’s needed to be counterphobic is a connection to 5,6 and 8 (so 6w7 actually doesn’t make the grade...but 7w6 does). And I don’t know what the person thought but to prove their point they like reposted every post I’ve ever made that’s made me cringe haha!

 

[Avocado]

I have been thinking about the word ‘damage’. I mean, okay I think what happened ha was my car was hit in the parking lot (I wasn’t in it) but I have been having to describe “the damage”...I had to send in a photo of “the damage”...so that word was on the brain. But I’m not sure yet if the word entirely unfitting. If members can claim that being typed with a type that doesn’t fit into their image of who they are hurtful...then I imagine there being an equivalent on the other side. The damage to my car was minor...but they still called it damage.

With what I’ve seen and experienced...it doesn’t much matter that *as long as you type nice at a nice time you won’t be penalized by the mods*...because I would actually prefer that than being subject to gossip, ridicule etc. So I’ll never do it again. And in this way I do think the system takes a hit. I mean, people need to learn how to do this if they want to make use of this tool if the want to implement/incorporate it into their lives...and I’m glad I was able to do it before you ran the risk of “damaging” someone with your unfavorable opinion. Based on the kind of system it is alone it would be my wish that people could see it for what it is...because I think...I know there’s a lot of benefit to be had. It’s a powerful tool that’s kinda dulled when people feel limited but whatever.

I’m here to talk shop and make learning curve mistakes but feel I best just post songs and pretend the sky is green

I didn’t know you still thought that! I have tested INFJ a couple times and am the sociosonics INFJ. I agree too about ADD.

I remember once someone typing me counterphobic 6...so I think I explained about the counterphobic wing and how what’s needed to be counterphobic is a connection to 5,6 and 8 (so 6w7 actually doesn’t make the grade...but 7w6 does). And I don’t know what the person thought but to prove their point they like reposted every post I’ve ever made that’s made me cringe haha!

I don’t understand that last chunk.

 

[Coriolis]

Yah, most relationship questions don’t appear to have a true type-related dilemma in them in spite of maybe saying “help with ENFP partner” or whatever...but every once and a while they do and I’ve always wondered about this because I’m not normal like normal people are. I haven’t been a part of all that many of these precisely because I get nervous due to this very thing and subsequently haven’t encountered one yet where I thought the person was taking type too seriously. Hell, if I did I’d probably *offend* them by telling them so (I’ve worked in academia my whole life where it would be unthinkable to not offer someone the correct answer if you had it or your opinion so the person had more to work with). I’ve encountered some where I’ve come to believe the partner isn’t accurately typed...but when it’s one of those when you’re just like...oh shit....now that I know about this what’s my responsibility?

I will freely offer type-based advice in such situations, if I feel I understand the problem well enough to comment. I make it clear that I can answer only for myself, as just one example of an INTJ. I will often say something like: "If I acted like that, it would be for this or that reason, and here is what I would be thinking." Or: "If someone did/said that to me, here is how I would view it." I have had quite a few people report acting on my advice in dealing with an INTJ in their lives, and having a satisfactory outcome, which of course encourages me to keep sharing my perspective. I do tend to assume that if someone finds it off the mark or not applicable, they will just ignore it. I often point this out explicitly, too.

If members can claim that being typed with a type that doesn’t fit into their image of who they are hurtful...then I imagine there being an equivalent on the other side. The damage to my car was minor...but they still called it damage.

Being typed with a type other than how I see myself isn't damaging, it's just lazy if that is all there is, and that has far more to do with them than with me. I can hardly take it personally much less be hurt by it. Unless it's one of those quick "type the member above" threads, I look for an explanation of their reasoning. That is what helps me see myself better, even if I still disagree about their 4-letter typing.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

With what I’ve seen and experienced...it doesn’t much matter that *as long as you type nice at a nice time you won’t be penalized by the mods*...because I would actually prefer that than being subject to gossip, ridicule etc. So I’ll never do it again. And in this way I do think the system takes a hit.

Well if doing the nice approach in a place where opinions were asked for and it resulted in gossip & ridicule, then I'd say "damage" applies. (I'm on my phone, so the tl;dr version will have to do. In the meantime, please enjoy this delightful footage of a panda eating bamboo.)

And yeah, I still 'see' more introverted perceiving in you than introverted judging, but that can wait. I only brought it up as an example of consistently seeing someone as a different type without feeling a need to convince? Anyway, please enjoy the panda footage when you have a moment. I've been watching it all day.

 

[Obfuscate]

i am not offended, but being called e2 annoys me...

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Some people appoint themselves as inspectors who attempt to restrict access to certain types they hold in high regard.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

i am not offended, but being called e2 annoys me...

I think annoyed fits better with my reaction just because it's an intrusion. The opinions of strangers don't mean enough to hurt me which is the same reason I don't find them meaningful insight. Also, I've had people come up with lots of opposite judgments about me in life (you should wear more makeup, you shouldn't wear makeup, etc.), and I'm actually rather consistent as a person. I've mostly given up on people understanding me because they don't, and I don't think that I entirely understand anyone else.

For me it's similar to someone walking up to me and telling me how I should color my hair, or that I'd look better wearing fluffy lacy clothes, or I should go to their church, or even worse when someone assumes I'll share their judgments of looking down on some group of people. It's intrusive and meaningless. People online have no idea how I spend my time, and I don't experience self awareness as a group project among strangers. The person has to have some credibility to make a personal judgment - they have to know the person well, they need to know typology well, they need to have some ability with insight. It's alot to assume.

(edit: I realize the idea is that typology increases understanding, but it causes at least as much confusion. There is something to be said for respecting the complexity of the individual and not jumping to conclusions telling people who they are, but rather listen to them to find out.)

 

[Starry]

I don’t understand that last chunk.

The ingredients needed to whip up some counterphobia? That may be due to the fact I didn’t explain it very well at all. That’s from Tom Condon... he’s a highly regarded enneagram theorist...but he’s also counterphobic (INTJ 6w5cp) and has some good work on that aspect alone.

 

[senza tema]

i am not offended, but being called e2 annoys me...

Why does it annoy you? You don't seem like the sort of person who would be annoyed by having your self-typing questioned.

 

[Starry]

I will freely offer type-based advice in such situations, if I feel I understand the problem well enough to comment. I make it clear that I can answer only for myself, as just one example of an INTJ. I will often say something like: "If I acted like that, it would be for this or that reason, and here is what I would be thinking." Or: "If someone did/said that to me, here is how I would view it." I have had quite a few people report acting on my advice in dealing with an INTJ in their lives, and having a satisfactory outcome, which of course encourages me to keep sharing my perspective. I do tend to assume that if someone finds it off the mark or not applicable, they will just ignore it. I often point this out explicitly, too.

Thank you so much for this. It only took hearing from a couple of people that have known me for a while for me to recognize this is my nervousness/my issue (actually you had given me some compelling insight into this issue of mine yourself and because I got stuck-in-a-good-way thinking about what you said I never formally responded to you prior to that discussion getting buried under new posts and threads. I thanked you and feel thankful for it again now but I do hope to bring it back up someday.)

I do not take type too seriously...but I do get really weird about wanting to do the best for people I imagine are truly trying to understand their loved ones...and create a healthy relationship. I think I also get a little crazy about it because it seems to me people are so disposable these days. People are here merely to be used and if hardtimes come about...toss them out and find someone new until a problem comes up with them...

Some people may think this site is a joke or something...but I know people have been given tools and missing pieces of the puzzle here...and have gone on to make their lives and relationships stronger and more meaningful. I’ve heard from them. I’m one of them myself. I’m so glad members like you share your knowledge because it matters.

Being typed with a type other than how I see myself isn't damaging, it's just lazy if that is all there is, and that has far more to do with them than with me. I can hardly take it personally much less be hurt by it. Unless it's one of those quick "type the member above" threads, I look for an explanation of their reasoning. That is what helps me see myself better, even if I still disagree about their 4-letter typing.

Yah exactly. And honestly...I think most people are trying learn...not insult (I am unable to really understand the insult aspect. I understand the words that people say...but I’m unable to understand it). I used to type a lot of members in the past because I really enjoyed the interaction and learning what others thought of the same individual...I think it’s really interesting how different people see different things even when they type the person the same! It was fun to get immediate feedback...like you can’t get that from celebrities and politicians. I found that nearly everyone was good natured about it and I’d hate to see that go but I don’t have much if any say in it.

 

[senza tema]

I just want to say that I am very grateful to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] for persistently questioning my enneagram self-typing and taking the time to explain what she saw. She changed my mind and it actually helped me a lot.

 

[Starry]

I just want to say that I am very grateful to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] for persistently questioning my enneagram self-typing and taking the time to explain what she saw. She changed my mind and it actually helped me a lot.

I only did it because...

I’d like to thank [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] for never giving up on me and repeatedly explaining why I was a 7...it really is transformative