Is it a personal offense for someone to question your type?

[IntrovertedCactus]

I typed as an INTJ. I have my doubts. I do tend to live inside my head a little too much. (A lot too much) When making decisions, I look at pros and cons. However, I lack that sense of direction that INTJs supposedly have. I have considered that I am an INTP—or even an ISTP. (My original type was actually INTP—INTJ is the most recent one) I don't see why anyone would be offended by others questioning it. It just means that there's a side of you that you previously overlooked. It's hard to remain objective when looking at your reflection.

 

[cascadeco]

The number one defense mechanism to protect the biases towards certain types have is this one sentence "You know yourself better than anyone else, so if you think that you are x or y, then you probably are right.", now why is this sentence so effective? Because it actually has some truth to it, but things aren't always so straightforward especially when it comes to cognition and behavior, more often than not it's actually easier for us to fool ourselves and know ourselves even less than other people do, which is why external perception is just as important as introspection when trying to know yourself better and is not a weakness in any way. External perception keeps you grounded in reality and facts about yourself, introspection figures out the how and why behind them.

So I may not disagree with this. I agree it IS easy to fool ourselves, but only in the sense that every single person on the planet can fool themselves or delude themselves into thinking they are doing something for reason X, or that they are a certain way -- which they very truly may well believe -- but they may realize down the road there were actually other things going on as well.

But the thing is, is this isn't anything you or anyone is ever going to be able to open this person up to -- the nature of this sort of self delusion or lack of awareness is only something that will be seen or known by the actual person when they're able to see it (if ever). So yeah... you could try to show them but they may truly 100% not be able to see it -- because they're 'not there' yet in their own mind or they may never be.

I will say though that while we may know ourselves best in terms of our inner workings and the whys, we often don't know how we come across to others -- and that's where other peoples' input CAN be more objective.

-------------------------

On a different but related note that was also brought up, yeah, there is knowing ourselves, and knowing the how and why for what we're thinking and why we're doing things -- the motivation and reason for why we do things . Hence those who are typing via just behavior, or attributing X behavior to y and only y cognitive function, is a really poor way of typing -- because as others have said, all 16 types can and may do the same behavior at some point in their lives, but for very different reasons. So yeah, typing off of just behavior isn't great. Cognitively we have different modes of thought that might yield the same behavior.

otoh behavior itself IS very telling of ones personality. I'm gonna have a very different opinion of the character/personality of someone who cheats on an exam (for whatever cognitive reason) vs someone who does not. Or someone who lashes out in anger and vindictiveness if something happens vs someone who does not. And so on. Yeah, might have nothing to do with cognitive/mbti functions (ie any type can do these things), but it sure as hell tells me a lot about the person's personality.
/ramble

 

[Lady Lazarus]

This thread isnt about you. I wasnt thinking of you when I made it. Its just an observation Ive seen in my time here- usually something that happens with a large majority of newer members. And it has been something I have heard complaints from, from both sides of the issue, in the past. Yes. I you are one of the people who I think does this- but no- this wasnt a targeted personal attack against you

I do think though that... the fact you are this defensive about it might be something you want to look at though. Maybe I have no right to say it but... it seems that typology can cause you a good amount of distress... and I think that if you have gotten to the point of that being the case... well... its not healthy in my opinjon.

But do what you want. Maybe Im completely wrong.

In my opinion... if you ask someone what they think your type is and then they type you- its fine if you disagree, its entirely within your rights to do so... but if you are habitually getting upset by the typings of people you asked to type you- it might just be time to step back a little. Or declare your type and say something like you dont want others opinions.

I do not think you are a bad person, a stupid person, anything like that. I have nothing against you as a person- I do have something against people feeling that if they disagree with someone they need to walk on eggshells so they are not offended. I am also against typology being weaponized in order to hurt someone or to undermine them- but thats not what Im talking about here. I am talking about people typing others, giving reasons for that type, acknowledging they might not be right- but whoever is being typed instead seeing it as some sort of personal judgement against them or some sort of hugely offensive thing that someone doesnt see them as they themselves feel they- for whatever reason- need to be seen.

Because we are friends, I want to tell you that I have seen someone else complaining about this but in the context of having been here for a much longer time than you have. I don't think you were even here during the time where the atmosphere was the way you may be trying to shift it toward in this thread (I was though). Of course, I don't have all the information so I will not say any more on it and really just wanted to be open about that and why I may now approach this thread the way I do and why I have made 3 posts here as of now.

Anyway, I think if we're going to have this conversation we need to acknowledge that perpetuation of this pattern isn't just on the people who react the way this thread mentions but also on those whose ego needs to believe they have a special insight into others and therefore also have a pathological relationship to typology. While they may not necessarily be attached to their own type, their insistance on playing the typology police also isn't a very exploratory approach to typology.

I am a perfect example of how this works in that all of you long ago agreed I was ISFP and attempt to impose it upon me constantly. There is no exploration or even so much as the suggestion of something different in that. It is as if all of you are the ones clinging to a type for me (note: In case you didn't read one of my other posts, I have never been attached to SFJ or in any way wanted to be one/seen as one, I just oppose typing me as ISFP because it is virtually never anything else unless it's INFP) and I am the one trying to explore different things but maybe like 2 of you actually "let me" (I guess it's a good thing I don't need anyone's permission to do whatever I want then as I am not getting it here lol).

So, if you really want a more freeflowing approach to typology, the agreements forum society apparently has made about people like me (I think I've just been indexed in with some of the people who are ISFP's on this forum in a hamfisted manner because I am also withdrawn and appreciate aesthetics) shouldn't get in the way of exploration of alternative/more complicated ideas or possibilities. It's like the societal patterns precede the bodies inhabiting those patterns and I find it inaccurate as well as limiting.

I found it strange that those who react with feeling offended to being typed were called closed-minded yet those who impose a type on others aren't regarded as the very same. In the same vein as PD's post, why should people consider the perspectives being posed to them when others do not consider their own perspective (why they may type as they do)?

I don't think the fact of being typed alone is what sets most people off at all but rather things like the overly controlling typology police thing, near unanimous agreements on one's type, the aforementioned lack of reciprocation, and the implication that the one typing them knows them better than they know themselves. I think at some point all of that can become so excessive that it creates a detrimental association for the individual being typed. It lends itself well to creating bitterness in someone.

It is not about needing to be seen in some particular way, at least not for me, but instead about wanting people to try to understand one/one's perspective as PD also mentioned several times. I do not explain to most of you why I type the way I do because for several years now I have readily percieved that most of you would not listen to me or consider what I tell you as you have all already made up your minds about me.

Of course, none of you can dictate to me and so I feel no strong compulsion to justify myself. Which is certainly helpful here and why I haven't cared to fight anyone over my type in years. The person I have the most control over is myself, that has become obvious over time.

But it's equally as grating as having to walk on egg-shells to ask people to all somehow find a way to not be irritated by the uneven way exploration ("exploration") seems to occur in this case. How many people can curb that feeling when they are essentially being dismissed afterall?

All of that said, I understand how this sort of beneficial destabilization is what the forum needs at the moment however, I just believe it's more complicated than the problem lying firmly on one end.

 

[highlander]

I usually try to keep OP posts general in order to not skew peoples responses but this time- Im going to answer this with my opinion here too.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous when people act like it is WRONG for someone to DARE question their type. This is a typology website. This is a place where we are trying to understand typology. That means constantly evaluatig and reevaluation behavior and vauses for behavior to understand patterns of type. This is not a place where you get to DEMAND that people see you as a particular type and then when people DONT- get offended and act like they are doing something wrong for questioning you.

Personally, I feel that that behavior in and of itself shows that you have a problem that you are desperatly trying to fill with validation from a typlogy system- rather than actually trying to understand yourself.

To understand typology- peoplee need to feel free to question others. To understand what IS a type- people also need to not fear being called out when they try to determine what “isnt”. If no one is allowed to question- then typology goes from a living and constantly developing understanding to something that is dead and worn by people like a badge.

Again. In my opinion- this is a typology website and Im just... it seems more and more lately this has become less about people trying to understand themselves and others- and more about forcing people to understand them as they want to be seen.

Thats my opinion- and for now, Im sticking to it.

I had someone question my enneagram type years ago and it helped me to figure out that I was not an 8 though a number of tests said that. When people question my type now however, I get a bit annoyed because I'm certain of my type. I think it depends on how you do it and the key is being respectful about it.

 

[Yuurei]

IME, if things don't bother people, they don't repetitively post about it. But you just can't stop posting about it, lol.

Yes, I often post about obnoxious, *cough* compulsively contrary and combative * cough* ENTJs because I find them bothersome.

 

[rav3n]

Yes, I often post about obnoxious, *cough* compulsively contrary and combative * cough* ENTJs because I find them bothersome.

Yes, I'm well aware of your emotional opinion of me. But that's aside from how often you trash ENTJs as a generality, and that you're obviously bothered by how other ENTJs on another site, wondered about your type since you're different and if you can't relate to the majority of ENTJs, perhaps there's something to the possibility that you might not be an ENTJ.

 

[Starry]

Because we are friends, I want to tell you that I have seen someone else complaining about this but in the context of having been here for a much longer time than you have. I don't think you were even here during the time where the atmosphere was the way you may be trying to shift it toward in this thread (I was though). Of course, I don't have all the information so I will not say any more on it and really just wanted to be open about that and why I may now approach this thread the way I do and why I have made 3 posts here as of now.

Anyway, I think if we're going to have this conversation we need to acknowledge that perpetuation of this pattern isn't just on the people who react the way this thread mentions but also on those whose ego needs to believe they have a special insight into others and therefore also have a pathological relationship to typology. While they may not necessarily be attached to their own type, their insistance on playing the typology police also isn't a very exploratory approach to typology.

I am a perfect example of how this works in that all of you long ago agreed I was ISFP and attempt to impose it upon me constantly. There is no exploration or even so much as the suggestion of something different in that. It is as if all of you are the ones clinging to a type for me (note: In case you didn't read one of my other posts, I have never been attached to SFJ or in any way wanted to be one/seen as one, I just oppose typing me as ISFP because it is virtually never anything else unless it's INFP) and I am the one trying to explore different things but maybe like 2 of you actually "let me" (I guess it's a good thing I don't need anyone's permission to do whatever I want then as I am not getting it here lol).

So, if you really want a more freeflowing approach to typology, the agreements forum society apparently has made about people like me (I think I've just been indexed in with some of the people who are ISFP's on this forum in a hamfisted manner because I am also withdrawn and appreciate aesthetics) shouldn't get in the way of exploration of alternative/more complicated ideas or possibilities. It's like the societal patterns precede the bodies inhabiting those patterns and I find it inaccurate as well as limiting.

I found it strange that those who react with feeling offended to being typed were called closed-minded yet those who impose a type on others aren't regarded as the very same. In the same vein as PD's post, why should people consider the perspectives being posed to them when others do not consider their own perspective (why they may type as they do)?

I don't think the fact of being typed alone is what sets most people off at all but rather things like the overly controlling typology police thing, near unanimous agreements on one's type, the aforementioned lack of reciprocation, and the implication that the one typing them knows them better than they know themselves. I think at some point all of that can become so excessive that it creates a detrimental association for the individual being typed. It lends itself well to creating bitterness in someone.

It is not about needing to be seen in some particular way, at least not for me, but instead about wanting people to try to understand one/one's perspective as PD also mentioned several times. I do not explain to most of you why I type the way I do because for several years now I have readily percieved that most of you would not listen to me or consider what I tell you as you have all already made up your minds about me.

Of course, none of you can dictate to me and so I feel no strong compulsion to justify myself. Which is certainly helpful here and why I haven't cared to fight anyone over my type in years. The person I have the most control over is myself, that has become obvious over time.

But it's equally as grating as having to walk on egg-shells to ask people to all somehow find a way to not be irritated by the uneven way exploration ("exploration") seems to occur in this case. How many people can curb that feeling when they are essentially being dismissed afterall?

All of that said, I understand how this sort of beneficial destabilization is what the forum needs at the moment however, I just believe it's more complicated than the problem lying firmly on one end.

Do you remember when you first arrived years ago as an INFP 4...how you reacted towards me in one of your type me threads when I suggested FJ 9? If you are referring to me in the above...and I imagine you are...that’s the only thing I have ever felt especially pathological about having walked into this trap more than once now. I do think it is wrong to start a type me thread...and then attack, ridicule, attempt to embarrass the respondent/s ...or get your friends to shit talk the person all over the forum...if you don’t like what the person said.

I will say though that in the case of entranced 2s, 4s and 9s image/identity I have wondered if there’s no way around it as I’m not sure if they understand that they are doing it. (I need to post this and return with an edit.)

 

[Starry]

ikr

I'm so good at positivity and not whining about things and super adventurous. Can't stop won't stop.

Haha you. It’s only a stereotype when someone else is doing it

I don’t think the suggestion is all that insane. I don’t think you are a 7w6 but I do have a great deal of recognition with you and love the way you write all the things I want to say but end up butchering. It’s good to see you.

 

[1487610420]

I had someone question my enneagram type years ago and it helped me to figure out that I was not an 8 though a number of tests said that. When people question my type now however, I get a bit annoyed because I'm certain of my type. I think it depends on how you do it and the key is being respectful about it.

I suspect the american culture side of things imparts a specific, unspoken, pc-wise flavour of respect, bordering on the coddling, and is widely spread out and ingrained throughout the forum - and the internet - that justoposes a neutral, objective quest for self actualisation.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Do you remember when you first arrived years ago as an INFP 4...how you reacted towards me in one of your type me threads when I suggested FJ 9? If you are referring to me in the above...and I imagine you are...that's the only thing I have ever felt especially pathological about having walked into this trap more than once now. I do think it is wrong to start a type me thread...and then attack, ridicule, attempt to embarrass the respondent/s ...or get your friends to shit talk the person all over the forum...if you don't like what the person said. I will say though that in the case of entranced 2s, 4s and 9s image/identity I have wondered if there's no way around it as I'm not sure if they understand that they are doing it. (I need to post this and return with an edit.)

That was not about you. And you suggested ISFP 9 initially not FJ. Later when you suggested FJ, I was like "ok, sure" and I tried to understand despite you explaining very little. I reacted like I did to you in the past because I didn't want to be a 9, they're portrayed as passive victims and my past "trauma" did not play well with that. Which of course you had no idea about but it's worth mentioning that it was not as simple as all of this is suggesting. Also, I don't think you're insinuating that I have gotten people to shit talk you etc. just because you typed me. But just in case you are, that's never been something I have done.

 

[Population: 1]

I suspect the american culture side of things imparts a specific, unspoken, pc-wise flavour of respect, bordering on the coddling, and is widely spread out and ingrained throughout the forum - and the internet - that justoposes a neutral, objective quest for self actualisation.

Well holy hell, a response reaching beyond the realm of the monosyllabic!

Is this it? Are the end times here?

 

[Starry]

That was not about you. And you suggested ISFP 9 initially not FJ. I reacted like I did to you because I didnt want to be a 9, they're portrayed as passive victims and my past "trauma" did not play well with that. Which of course you had no idea about but it's worth mentioning that it was not as simple as all of this is suggesting. Also, I don't think you're insinuating that I have gotten people to shit talk you etc. just because you typed me. But just in case you are, that's never been something I have done.

“Passive victims” ha. I understand what you are saying but 9s are remarkable to me in the way they will never give up they are so strong (I understand that it doesn’t feel or doesn’t always feel that way but it doesn’t make it any less true and it is another reason why you see such a range of behavior. 9s are far more likely to end up rebelling against their core fears by facing them head on. Not all but many of them will do this.)

You likely right about the ISFP suggestion. I only remember thinking of you as Fe but could see myself saying that. I hate that I’m on my phone right now... but whatever you said I wasn’t insinuating that.

 

[Totenkindly]

Typically I agree with all the responses regarding "approach matters." If someone is also specifically asking for feedback about their type, also, then go to town in a helpful way in explaining your perceptions of the person's type. But otherwise, it can be a pretty ambiguous area.

It's like if you were walking around at a gathering and someone walks up and starts commenting on your clothing. "You can't really carry that off, you'd look a lot better in <this style> clothing unsolicited." or your hair style. Or your vocabulary. or your intelligence level. or some other random piece of data about you that you might not have been considering at the time and maybe weren't really expecting to be debating. It can even scan as, "Well, you say you're a Christian, or a libertarian, or [some other group], but I think you're really an [x]."

You guys know this meme? Depending on what you're currently doing, that kind of opening comment can be way off-topic. And depending on how it's delivered, it can also scan as invasive and judgmental and opinionated... and demanding.

Yes, it's a typology site, but not everything here and not every conversation is about typology. Also, not everything has to be public -- some interactions can be one-on-one.

If you're really curious about someone's type, maybe you could just say, "Hey, I see you are labeled as [type], what's up with that and/or how do you identify as that type?" IOW, ask the person questions to find out more why they think that.

And if you are really bothered (if for example you think someone is misrepresenting a type -- some folks do this regularly, saying, "As an [type], we always do this and this," which can be annoying if they do it a lot and you don't even think their type ID makes sense), you can also query them personally rather than making a public assault out of it. if they seem open to discussing it, then great.

People also are not obligated to engage someone who disagrees with them. Sometimes they have bad reasons for not engaging, sometimes they have great reasons. But again, this is why questions rather than confrontations are better. And like others have said, type questioning can also be weaponized, which isn't cool.

Just think a little bit about how you come off when you're engaging something that they might identify with or have possibly thought long and hard about already, esp if it's someone you barely know. Also, discussing something like this is more about making each other's lives better, not protecting turf.

 

[Luminous]

Typically I agree with all the responses regarding "approach matters." If someone is also specifically asking for feedback about their type, also, then go to town in a helpful way in explaining your perceptions of the person's type. But otherwise, it can be a pretty ambiguous area.

It's like if you were walking around at a gathering and someone walks up and starts commenting on your clothing. "You can't really carry that off, you'd look a lot better in <this style> clothing unsolicited." or your hair style. Or your vocabulary. or your intelligence level. or some other random piece of data about you that you might not have been considering at the time and maybe weren't really expecting to be debating. It can even scan as, "Well, you say you're a Christian, or a libertarian, or [some other group], but I think you're really an [x]."

So very well said, everything in your post, Totenkindly.

And the comparison to unsolicited advice on appearance is right on... it can be the difference between "I love your hair! It's so pretty!" and "Your hair is so long! You should cut it all off and donate it to cancer victims."

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

From reviewing the posts, despite the contention apparent in some, it sounds like we're mostly in agreement that this issue boils down to respect (rather than any objective philosophical right and wrong of a typing suggestion), and a given boardie's levels of intolerance for perceived disrespect. Those who are least favorable to typing suggestions seem more aware of the ways retyping others can be abused; those who don't mind, don't see it through that lens. I've been laughed at for my simple-minded Captain-Obvious statements before, but that's my takeaway, anyway.

And the comparison to unsolicited advice on appearance is right on... it can be the difference between "I love your hair! It's so pretty!" and "Your hair is so long! You should cut it all off and donate it to cancer victims."

OMG my hair used to be down to my knees, and I got the Locks of Love spiel all the damn time. The same happened to my sister. Used to irritate the crap out of us both. I don't think people always realize how otherwise well-meaning comments can come across as intrusive.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I've also seen some social dominance game playing in this regard, especially when people draw a lot of attention to questioning someone's type. Oftentimes the people who are always calling out others types tend to be the ones that don't really seem like their declared type to me and they are calling out other people of the same type. I don't mess with it by calling them out, but it does annoy me a lot.

Me too. Social dominance games of any sort - where someone feels entitled in any way to dictate shared reality/overwrite others' perceptions (and this kind of thing is discernable and palpable after repeated interaction with someone) - generally actually make me feel a visceral nausea.

It's stunning how far a person's confidence/conviction alone (confidence/conviction that is unmerited) can jar/stun others into getting onboard with a convoluted idea.

Eta: Anyway, as this applies to 'type gurus', I typically have to ignore them after their "insight" starts literally making me feel nauseous.

 

[Jaguar]

It's stunning how far a person's confidence/conviction alone (confidence/conviction that is unmerited) can jar/stun others into getting onboard with a convoluted idea.

A large number of people in the forum thought someone was ESTP. I never believed it, but said nothing. Years later, the so-called ESTP announced they were never ESTP and had been kidding themselves. Just because a bunch of people "get on board" with something, doesn't make it any more true or false. I'm not a fan of peer pressure.

 

[highlander]

I suspect the american culture side of things imparts a specific, unspoken, pc-wise flavour of respect, bordering on the coddling, and is widely spread out and ingrained throughout the forum - and the internet - that justoposes a neutral, objective quest for self actualisation.

Probably true

I remember one member making an oblique comment about my 8 enneagram. Then Zarathustra agreed and said something to the effect that 8s don't have collections of books on personality type. Neither said what they thought I was. They just raised questions. It was enough for me to do some more digging. It was completely respectful.

 

[prplchknz]

This site is funny in that you spend your whole life being told you're a cat but come here people insist you're a cow. and you keep going no i'm a cat that's what i've been told irl and they go no you are a cow and it keeps going until either you get banned cuz you said some not nice things or you go fine i'm a cow.

 

[Coriolis]

So very well said, everything in your post, Totenkindly.

And the comparison to unsolicited advice on appearance is right on... it can be the difference between "I love your hair! It's so pretty!" and "Your hair is so long! You should cut it all off and donate it to cancer victims."

I agree with most everything [MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION] wrote, but this comparison is slightly off the mark. Participating here is more like attending a costume party, where costume comments are fair game and part of the fun, as long as they aren't rude or excessive.