Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Social Last Support Group

[brainheart]

[MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION], you say a few things that seem kind of like a tip-off to me that you're not sx dominant.

1. Yearning for a romantic relationship vs going for it. If I'm interested in someone, I pursue them. If anything, I have to rein myself in. It can require a lot of energy to restrain myself in these situations. When I was younger (and single) and I liked someone, I would write self-revealing letters to them. I was very straight forward. I thought that this was what people did when they liked someone, and after repeated embarrassments and denials I learned that being a Romantic poet is not a cool thing to do in this day and age, probably especially if you're female. I've been perceived as stalkerish and too much. My husband was the first guy to actually appreciate this quality in me. I was no longer too much but instead just right.

2. The idea that flashy dressing and sx go hand in hand. The sp/sx fours I've known (two) get way more into expressing themselves through clothing than I ever have. I think sexual fours, especially if they have a five wing, can have more of a 'this is who I am, and either you are going to love me for who I am or you're not going to love me' quality. Sometimes I care about my clothes, but for the most part I am a black t-shirt and jeans/practical/comfortable dresser sort of person. Really, I think sx in the second position is much more concerned about presenting themselves in a certain way. I've read somewhere the second instinct is more how you express yourself to everyone (because the first is what you hold close to your chest, it's your chief vulnerability) and I think there's some truth to that.

3. Romanticizing the sexual instinct. I don't think you romanticize your dominant instinct (or stack) if you're a four. You want what others have, not what you are. I have tended to idealize fours who have stronger self pres and social instincts than I have, because they have these capacities that I do not, or have accomplished things I have not. With other sx/sps it's more of this 'Ah, I get you and I understand how much it sucks.' (What you say about being worthy to wear the sx crown is exactly how I feel about sp/sx. I thought maybe that was my type for awhile, but it was always this aspirational deal vs reality.)

P.S. What's your relationship with the social instinct? Maybe inconsistency goes along with any 4x9 tritype. My theories are fallible, you know. I'm just cobbling things together like everyone else...

(Also I think you need to watch the whole movie of Jeff, Who Lives at Home to get what I'm talking about. Maybe I shouldn't have used it as an example for that very reason. It really is a big picture sort of deal.)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

[MENTION=22480]brainheart[/MENTION] - How would you describe how envy plays out in you as an Sx 4? Also, what kind of thoughts run through your head on a regular basis that revolve around Sx stuff? (Like an Sp dom might have thoughts like "why am I so tired today?" or "I really need to pay that bill before it's late.") I'm having a hard time figuring out what the equivalent thoughts for an Sx 4 would be, and I imagine it's more than just "this person is fucking boring."

 

[1487610420]

Everyone and their mom knows thinks that I'm an Sx.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

If you steal that, I'll cut you.

I'm not resizing that so if it's huge fuck you.

@Lotus: I do sincerely wonder why you envy the Sx variant for 4s - I think it sounds half terrible.

nah fam

 

[Luminous]

1. Yearning for a romantic relationship vs going for it. If I'm interested in someone, I pursue them. If anything, I have to rein myself in. It can require a lot of energy to restrain myself in these situations. When I was younger (and single) and I liked someone, I would write self-revealing letters to them. I was very straight forward. I thought that this was what people did when they liked someone, and after repeated embarrassments and denials I learned that being a Romantic poet is not a cool thing to do in this day and age, probably especially if you're female. I've been perceived as stalkerish and too much. My husband was the first guy to actually appreciate this quality in me. I was no longer too much but instead just right.

2. The idea that flashy dressing and sx go hand in hand. The sp/sx fours I've known (two) get way more into expressing themselves through clothing than I ever have. I think sexual fours, especially if they have a five wing, can have more of a 'this is who I am, and either you are going to love me for who I am or you're not going to love me' quality. Sometimes I care about my clothes, but for the most part I am a black t-shirt and jeans/practical/comfortable dresser sort of person. Really, I think sx in the second position is much more concerned about presenting themselves in a certain way. I've read somewhere the second instinct is more how you express yourself to everyone (because the first is what you hold close to your chest, it's your chief vulnerability) and I think there's some truth to that.

3. Romanticizing the sexual instinct. I don't think you romanticize your dominant instinct (or stack) if you're a four. You want what others have, not what you are. I have tended to idealize fours who have stronger self pres and social instincts than I have, because they have these capacities that I do not, or have accomplished things I have not. With other sx/sps it's more of this 'Ah, I get you and I understand how much it sucks.' (What you say about being worthy to wear the sx crown is exactly how I feel about sp/sx. I thought maybe that was my type for awhile, but it was always this aspirational deal vs reality.)

I can relate so much with these.

1. Yep, yep, yep. "Overwhelming," "a bit much," and the worst one, "Reeeelaaaax" (seriously, how insulting is that? But thanks for letting me know what an asshole you are.) I, too, thought that is what everyone did.

2. Yep. Comfort over fashion for me. Mostly jeans. More dressy tops than t-shirts nowadays, but that's partly from when I shook off depression and felt the need to stop wearing clothes that I associated with that depression.

3. I think I do romanticize it somewhat. However, I am intimately aware of how awful it is. And the romanticizing is a coping strategy.

 

[cascadeco]

[MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION], you say a few things that seem kind of like a tip-off to me that you're not sx dominant.

1. Yearning for a romantic relationship vs going for it. If I'm interested in someone, I pursue them. If anything, I have to rein myself in. It can require a lot of energy to restrain myself in these situations. When I was younger (and single) and I liked someone, I would write self-revealing letters to them. I was very straight forward. I thought that this was what people did when they liked someone, and after repeated embarrassments and denials I learned that being a Romantic poet is not a cool thing to do in this day and age, probably especially if you're female. I've been perceived as stalkerish and too much. My husband was the first guy to actually appreciate this quality in me. I was no longer too much but instead just right.

2. The idea that flashy dressing and sx go hand in hand. The sp/sx fours I've known (two) get way more into expressing themselves through clothing than I ever have. I think sexual fours, especially if they have a five wing, can have more of a 'this is who I am, and either you are going to love me for who I am or you're not going to love me' quality. Sometimes I care about my clothes, but for the most part I am a black t-shirt and jeans/practical/comfortable dresser sort of person. Really, I think sx in the second position is much more concerned about presenting themselves in a certain way. I've read somewhere the second instinct is more how you express yourself to everyone (because the first is what you hold close to your chest, it's your chief vulnerability) and I think there's some truth to that.

Though I was a very late bloomer in terms of romance, re your first point I can relate; I have often been the one who has pursued / indicated interest / attempted to push things forward, and often like you I don't think it's exactly .. desired. haha. I mean I guess it has 'worked' for me sometimes but at the same time I'm not sure it really has since oftentimes I think/wonder if in a few cases I wasn't just acting of my own accord and the other person just went along with it even though maybe if it was in their hands nothing would happen - thus not a great match. I feel with much of my life I've been the one who's initiated things; and tbh I am really not sure how I feel about that!! haha. But anyway. I am also reminded of a few coworkers of mine who just clam up and get awkward and don't know what to say when one of their crushes comes into work... like, they have a strong desire to go hide in the back room.... whereas I'm like the total opposite. Now granted I don't really have any crushes atm but I've always been someone who, if I like someone, it's 100% blatantly obvious that I do..... I really try to interact with them more and am much more engaging vs with someone I am not interested in and then I'm just my normal 'flat'/ whatever.

Re my clothing... yah.... I suppose I've always been pretty into my appearance / dress; you could say it's important to me? Though in my own way. So I'm not into 'fashion' in terms of 'being fashionable' and caring about trends; however, I .. like to look good as good as possible with my own flair? haha.

Re romanticizing and whether I do so with regards to the instincts... I'm not sure that I do. However the reason I identify a lot with 4 is because I know I have a strong undercurrent of almost kneejerk comparison/envy/jealousy about all kinds of things (conscious of 'lackings')... I just notice when it pops up, since it is a pretty common thread. Can't say it's tied to an instinct though ... other than my wishing I really liked social media and that whole culture because then my own independent efforts might actually work? haha. Edit: Also this might tie to instincts, I might envy those who I view as 'single-minded', who go for what they want with abandon, no matter the hardships, nothing stops them. I have too many checks and balances in place for that to ever happen, and I've never had that 'obsession'. I associate this with sx dom? vs my sp dom with its self-protection first?


/Just thought your bullet points were interesting.

 

[Hiraeth]

[MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION], you say a few things that seem kind of like a tip-off to me that you're not sx dominant.

1. Yearning for a romantic relationship vs going for it. If I'm interested in someone, I pursue them. If anything, I have to rein myself in. It can require a lot of energy to restrain myself in these situations. When I was younger (and single) and I liked someone, I would write self-revealing letters to them. I was very straight forward. I thought that this was what people did when they liked someone, and after repeated embarrassments and denials I learned that being a Romantic poet is not a cool thing to do in this day and age, probably especially if you're female. I've been perceived as stalkerish and too much. My husband was the first guy to actually appreciate this quality in me. I was no longer too much but instead just right.

2. The idea that flashy dressing and sx go hand in hand. The sp/sx fours I've known (two) get way more into expressing themselves through clothing than I ever have. I think sexual fours, especially if they have a five wing, can have more of a 'this is who I am, and either you are going to love me for who I am or you're not going to love me' quality. Sometimes I care about my clothes, but for the most part I am a black t-shirt and jeans/practical/comfortable dresser sort of person. Really, I think sx in the second position is much more concerned about presenting themselves in a certain way. I've read somewhere the second instinct is more how you express yourself to everyone (because the first is what you hold close to your chest, it's your chief vulnerability) and I think there's some truth to that.

3. Romanticizing the sexual instinct. I don't think you romanticize your dominant instinct (or stack) if you're a four. You want what others have, not what you are. I have tended to idealize fours who have stronger self pres and social instincts than I have, because they have these capacities that I do not, or have accomplished things I have not. With other sx/sps it's more of this 'Ah, I get you and I understand how much it sucks.' (What you say about being worthy to wear the sx crown is exactly how I feel about sp/sx. I thought maybe that was my type for awhile, but it was always this aspirational deal vs reality.)

P.S. What's your relationship with the social instinct? Maybe inconsistency goes along with any 4x9 tritype. My theories are fallible, you know. I'm just cobbling things together like everyone else...

(Also I think you need to watch the whole movie of Jeff, Who Lives at Home to get what I'm talking about. Maybe I shouldn't have used it as an example for that very reason. It really is a big picture sort of deal.)

Admittedly after reading through what I wrote last time, it started dawning on me that perhaps being an sx-dom was not in the cards as I had hoped.

1. Ahh, okay. That is what I've always thought about sx types and it explains why they are more 8-ish than the other subtypes. I'm definitely not anything like that. That is very sweet about your husband though. <3

2. Hah. If the second instinct is how we dress then that makes sense. It would be hard seeing the social instinct there because I can dress kind of trashy unapologetically at times. I'm pretty bohemian and don't mind dressing like a piñata if it's something I vibe with.

3. Yes, I've heard that before. It makes sense in theory. It explains why I never thought about being an sx-dom until others brought it up. I just always saw it as secondary more than anything else and thought it was funny because I don't consider myself a very intense person outwardly. It is more of what I'd prefer myself to be than actually walk the walk irl.

The social instinct is an interesting one. I've only ever thought I was sp/sx and it's what I usually test as. The subtype is one I can connect with, being very emotionally sensitive overall, though wearing my feelings on my sleeve is not me at all. And by itself as an instinct, I am terrible with any form of networking and am allergic to social media (including Discord) besides this site mostly. It is something I am still learning the ropes on due to workplace establishment. Also being around groups for too long can overwhelm me to the point where I need to run away after hours at a time or even end up crying out of how stimulating the environment can get at times (probably the product of being an HSP). I really just don't mind being alone and prefer the company of one or a few other people in general.

I think it's because people have trouble seeing me as contra flow on here (I blame that on yoga, better eating, and having an established life purpose now), though I'm very asocial in person. I like this site because I can just pop in and out whenever I want and then focus on real life stuff without getting bogged down. Perfect for someone like me who hates being tied down for hours at a time.

And that's fine. I enjoy hearing others' viewpoints on the enneagram. I think this has been more than reaffirming that I am indeed not an sx type, so I don't have to linger on the possibility anymore. And thank you for that. I freaking hate being this tritype. Gah.

I'll be sure to watch that film when I get the chance. It makes sense that a little snippet is not enough to cover the entirety of the film itself.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

nah fam

It's weird when you're nice.

 

[1487610420]

It's weird when you're nice.

 

[brainheart]

[MENTION=22480]brainheart[/MENTION] - How would you describe how envy plays out in you as an Sx 4? Also, what kind of thoughts run through your head on a regular basis that revolve around Sx stuff? (Like an Sp dom might have thoughts like "why am I so tired today?" or "I really need to pay that bill before it's late.") I'm having a hard time figuring out what the equivalent thoughts for an Sx 4 would be, and I imagine it's more than just "this person is fucking boring."

My envy is less pervasive than it used to be, thankfully, but when it arises it’s always a comparison thing- how do I measure up compared to that person- only in relation to things I’m interested in, of course. A self-disclosing example:

There is a man I used to be involved with. Everything was intense, totally impractical and impossible, eventually unrequited, dramatic, tortuous, life destroying, and therefore… ideal. He ended up with this other woman who, no shit, is a better version of me, like in every way. We have a similar look but she’s French. She has the same artistic interests as me but she’s successful and respected- landed a book deal with the same publisher as Patti Smith, for fuck’s sake. She’s also a lovely person, socially appropriate and kind and just… perfect.

We have so much in common, I know I should like her, and this is what my brain reasons: she is a cool person and you should like her. She had a crazy childhood so you should have sympathy for her. For the most part, I do. But my emotional reaction, my first visceral reaction, is to totally, totally hate her. I want to one up her. I want to beat her, to show this man that I would have been the better choice and he totally lost out. Writing this, I realize that this sounds so much like Salieri and Mozart and up to this point I have failed to see that connection- I’d read that as an example of sexual four and not relate to it. Wow, sometimes I’m dense.

As far as regular, run of the mill everyday thoughts go- it’s less of a thought and more of a feeling, but to translate into words- “Am I into this? Am I drawn to this? Do I find this thing/person compelling?” So kind of like you said: "This person is fucking boring."

 

[Peter Deadpan]

My envy is less pervasive than it used to be, thankfully, but when it arises it’s always a comparison thing- how do I measure up compared to that person- only in relation to things I’m interested in, of course. A self-disclosing example:

There is a man I used to be involved with. Everything was intense, totally impractical and impossible, eventually unrequited, dramatic, tortuous, life destroying, and therefore… ideal. He ended up with this other woman who, no shit, is a better version of me, like in every way. We have a similar look but she’s French. She has the same artistic interests as me but she’s successful and respected- landed a book deal with the same publisher as Patti Smith, for fuck’s sake. She’s also a lovely person, socially appropriate and kind and just… perfect.

We have so much in common, I know I should like her, and this is what my brain reasons: she is a cool person and you should like her. She had a crazy childhood so you should have sympathy for her. For the most part, I do. But my emotional reaction, my first visceral reaction, is to totally, totally hate her. I want to one up her. I want to beat her, to show this man that I would have been the better choice and he totally lost out. Writing this, I realize that this sounds so much like Salieri and Mozart and up to this point I have failed to see that connection- I’d read that as an example of sexual four and not relate to it. Wow, sometimes I’m dense.

As far as regular, run of the mill everyday thoughts go- it’s less of a thought and more of a feeling, but to translate into words- “Am I into this? Am I drawn to this? Do I find this thing/person compelling?” So kind of like you said: "This person is fucking boring."

That's uncomfortably relatable. I am now weirdly Facebook friends with my ex's new ex, because I warned her of his dark side and she was grateful because she ended up seeing it herself and made a quick escape thanks to the knowledge I had given her. She ended up later messaging me, after thanking me, and said something like "I sense that we have a lot of personality similarities and I could use another friend if you're down". I've never been that... open about sharing my love, which might sound weird since neither of us are with this man anymore, but knowing she loved him and that she is much more bubbly and outgoing and professionally successful than me does make me... not hate her by ANY means, but I just feel uncomfortable. Still though, I figured I could use a growth exercise and thus approved her friend request (I dunno if that sounds Ne-Fi, or probably more Fi-Ne??) Part of me does regret it because it just feels weird to see videos of her lifting weights in shorts and a tank at the gym, and thinking "I wonder if he was more attracted to her or me?"

Yeah... it feels crazy to admit aloud and now I sorta wish I hadn't.

Btw, I do not still have feelings for him, but I get the draw to the intensity 100%.

One weird thing I read about Sx 4s that I DO NOT relate to is that they often keep in touch with exes (like what??!!! why??!!!! Zero desire ever).

 

[Population: 1]

As far as regular, run of the mill everyday thoughts go- it’s less of a thought and more of a feeling, but to translate into words- “Am I into this? Am I drawn to this? Do I find this thing/person compelling?” So kind of like you said: "This person is fucking boring."

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is my for lack of a better word passion for things indicative of Sx first? Whatever it is music, food, words and the way words flow, the way a star twinkles- they all ‘excite’ me. Not necessarily in a sexual way but with a level of intensity. I mean I see a beautiful woman and an exquisite looking dessert and I can tell my brain is firing exactly the same in it’s desire for both.

And please don’t kill me for that comparison, I’m not saying a woman is no more to me than a pleasurable dessert. I’m just saying all these things seem to illicit a similar reaction in me. I see everything I enjoy through a filter of sensuality I guess. I’m not saying I’d just as soon as date a chocolate cake as my girlfriend. For one thing, she’s a better conversationalist.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is my for lack of a better word passion for things indicative of Sx first? Whatever it is music, food, words and the way words flow, the way a star twinkles- they all ‘excite’ me. Not necessarily in a sexual way but with a level of intensity. I mean I see a beautiful woman and an exquisite looking dessert and I can tell my brain is firing exactly the same in it’s desire for both.

And please don’t kill me for that comparison, I’m not saying a woman is no more to me than a pleasurable dessert. I’m just saying all these things seem to illicit a similar reaction in me. I see everything I enjoy through a filter of sensuality I guess. I’m not saying I’d just as soon as date a chocolate cake as my girlfriend. For one thing, she’s a better conversationalist.

See, now this I relate to less. It's not that it never happens, it's just less common and not anything I consciously worry about (other than some moments in romantic relationships... the dreaded "grass is greener" complex).

I think it's a matter of weighing which of your 2 instincts you focus on more consistently. I don't think I can go an hour without thinking about something related to my comfort in the environment.

 

[Population: 1]

See, now this I relate to less. It's not that it never happens, it's just less common and not anything I consciously worry about (other than some moments in romantic relationships... the dreaded "grass is greener" complex).

I think it's a matter of weighing which of your 2 instincts you focus on more consistently. I don't think I can go an hour without thinking about something related to my comfort in the environment.

What do you mean by comfort? Physically like sense wise or psychologically or both?

 

[1487610420]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is my for lack of a better word passion for things indicative of Sx first? Whatever it is music, food, words and the way words flow, the way a star twinkles- they all ‘excite’ me. Not necessarily in a sexual way but with a level of intensity. I mean I see a beautiful woman and an exquisite looking dessert and I can tell my brain is firing exactly the same in it’s desire for both.

And please don’t kill me for that comparison, I’m not saying a woman is no more to me than a pleasurable dessert. I’m just saying all these things seem to illicit a similar reaction in me. I see everything I enjoy through a filter of sensuality I guess. I’m not saying I’d just as soon as date a chocolate cake as my girlfriend. For one thing, she’s a better conversationalist.

that's a tough call tho, prob depends on the women/dessert combination.

 

[Luminous]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is my for lack of a better word passion for things indicative of Sx first? Whatever it is music, food, words and the way words flow, the way a star twinkles- they all ‘excite’ me. Not necessarily in a sexual way but with a level of intensity. I mean I see a beautiful woman and an exquisite looking dessert and I can tell my brain is firing exactly the same in it’s desire for both.

And please don’t kill me for that comparison, I’m not saying a woman is no more to me than a pleasurable dessert. I’m just saying all these things seem to illicit a similar reaction in me. I see everything I enjoy through a filter of sensuality I guess. I’m not saying I’d just as soon as date a chocolate cake as my girlfriend. For one thing, she’s a better conversationalist.

I can relate.

I, umm, have been the person who other diners looked at and said, "I'll have what she's having."
Of course there's a gif!

A filter of sensuality is a good way of putting it, I think.

 

[cascadeco]

I love good food. Also I broke my pinky toe as a grown woman as I was excited about my brothers' homemade pizza and I ran out my bedroom door and flailed my foot on the doorframe in my happy dance. I also kind of don't like to share anything delicious that I order, other than a 'generous' bite or two that I offer. Especially desserts.

 

[Luminous]

I love good food. I also kind of don't like to share anything delicious that I order, other than a 'generous' bite or two that I offer. Especially desserts.

Yes, you know how I feel about you when I give you a significant amount of my dessert.

 

[Population: 1]

I can relate.

I, umm, have been the person who other diners looked at and said, "I'll have what she's having."
Of course there's a gif!

A filter of sensuality is a good way of putting it, I think.

Exactly though. Where does being Sx differ from being a hedonist? I’m definitely the latter.

 

[Hiraeth]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Is my for lack of a better word passion for things indicative of Sx first? Whatever it is music, food, words and the way words flow, the way a star twinkles- they all ‘excite’ me. Not necessarily in a sexual way but with a level of intensity. I mean I see a beautiful woman and an exquisite looking dessert and I can tell my brain is firing exactly the same in it’s desire for both.

And please don’t kill me for that comparison, I’m not saying a woman is no more to me than a pleasurable dessert. I’m just saying all these things seem to illicit a similar reaction in me. I see everything I enjoy through a filter of sensuality I guess. I’m not saying I’d just as soon as date a chocolate cake as my girlfriend. For one thing, she’s a better conversationalist.

That's interesting. I relate to this a lot. Maybe it's an Se thing for me then?

 

[Population: 1]

That's interesting. I relate to this a lot. Maybe it's an Se thing for me then?

I wish I was well versed in this.