Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Social Last Support Group

[Z Buck McFate]

As far as determining Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx goes (and further understanding the social instinct), this video is what pointed me in the direction of Sx/Sp:

If it's an accurate description, then I'm definitely Sx/Sp. I used to identify as Sp/Sx, I think because a lot of e5 tendencies put an Sp dominant veneer on my overall day. If that makes any sense.

 

[Qlip]

^^^ I remember earlier in my relationship, floating the idea that my sx/sp INFP SO was social first because she throws so much in herself into connections with people. On further examination it turns out there's nothing social about it, it's all sexual, and vaguely threatening in intensity to my sp-first self.

 

[Snow as White]

As far as determining Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx goes (and further understanding the social instinct), this video is what pointed me in the direction of Sx/Sp:

If it's an accurate description, then I'm definitely Sx/Sp. I used to identify as Sp/Sx, I think because a lot of e5 tendencies put an Sp dominant veneer on my overall day. If that makes any sense.

Wow. this is a great video! I just watched the first half of it to hear the dive into each of the instincts. Added in some details about all of them that I had missed.

I am very Sx-dom. I had a lot of issues before my current relationship with feeling so.... lost at sea, kind of crazy in the head, deep sadness, physical pain, because I was alone. I would have guys interested in me but it wasn't for what I perceived as to be adequate reasons... I didn't feel a passion about MEEEEE and who I am. And so the crumbs of "I want to date you" felt even worse than rejection because it wasn't what I wanted or needed. Add in the e4 feeling of always having a missing piece.

I thought the picture on the instincts was really interesting. The one about 10 mins in or so with, how do you need to survive? We used to watch the Walking Dead. And I'd always think of how I could tolerate the situation only if I was able to stick with my bf, and the thought of being separated was too much. Being separated from the group, that's fine. Seeing the storylines of Maggie and Glenn separated? Terribleness! Just push me over the cliff and let's be done.

Any calm I have now is because of my relationship. I can now seek the pleasure of bonding with people out of a sense of enjoyment rather than the desperate guzzling of water from a person dying of dehydration in the desert.

 

[rav3n]

The one that I relate to the most would be the sx dom but even then, it's off. It doesn't bother me when friends have friends or my partner has friends. That's all perfectly fine with me. What does bother me is if a partner can't connect with me on a deeper level and when that happens, I'm out of the relationship.

 

[brainheart]

I'm liking this:

Instinct Stackings - Enneagram

Social blind spot - SP/SX and SX/SP

The area that is ignored by these three stackings are the three elements of the Social instinct: Connection/Care, Mindreading, Harmony/Role.

Connection/Care: The connections made by the sexual instinct do not involve bonding or reciprocity. This is not to say that they can’t feel love, but the instinctual drive itself is more concerned with connecting chemically as if getting a drug fix, and maintaining that locked-in high. They can make friendship bonds or other types of relationships with people, but they are often less “close” than it seems. Once the energy of attraction wears off, they might forget to maintain that bond as they search for a new energy fix. They also have less of a “screening process” for the people they interact with. SO has a sense of “good and bad people” built in, or an innate sense of knowing who has the same moral values or psychological understanding of the world. These similarities will bond them together. SO-blinds often ignore this, and the people in their life are less of a “big deal” or of something that needs to be focused on.

Mindreading: SO-blinds are often unaware of certain social cues, or they might ignore them without even intending to rebel against them. The big societal lattice-work of mental mindreading is muted in favour of SP and SX. They may create beautiful art or have great ideas, but they often lack the superb communication skills of a SO-dom who is highly aware of how everything they do is received by others, and is able to respond to their social cues. Lacking this arena of social has behavioural similarities to autism, but is not the same thing.

Harmony/Role: SO-blinds forget to present a sense of “me” and identity beyond being an attraction object for themselves or others. They are less concerned with how others see them and how they fit into the greater context of society or even their own small circle. In a sense, they lack a “genre,” the SO-doms having the clearest sense of this. They will take little pride in being part of any team, being from a particular city/place, having a “crew” or group, etc.

The main facets of SP/SX and SX/SP:

A focus on the self and its needs, the objectifying of others for sex/arousal or instinctual resources

Lack of focus how to present themselves in a way that properly communicates their own message of who they are

Lack of awareness of what makes them bonded to others, who they are in relation to others, how they are relating to others reciprocally

Not being “met,” no communication just for the sake of talking, not looking to connect on something shared, may connect on something but do not identify with the space between two people that the connection brings, they are not bonded by communication

Lacking a sense of social order (Socials can rebel against order but it’s deliberate), and a sense of being “civilized” or “human”

Outsource social to others, have other people keep them in the loop

 

[chubber]

I'm screwed

I just don't have the energy to keep up appearances. I try to fit in, but I basically burn out, and I think people realise that I'm not being real. Or at least that, I am not good at it. inferior Se-problems.

I don't understand twitter, people go frenzy over a technology that keeps you behind. Then tells you, you can do search functions, do people actually use those?
Instagram, is image type, so it is job. Maybe I should take pictures of me, sitting in front of my desk and showing how spectacular that is.
Names, over a decade and I still don't know some people's names, they know me of course
Nobody talks to me, unless they want help
Nobody invites me, ok not completely, sometimes I get invited for lunch, but always at the time when I'm busy. So I have to decline. But there are times when I would like to go.
My interests are not of interest to others.
When an interest is triggered, that is all I can talk about, without realising the other party is nowhere interested. (they call me passionate about the subject).

I care, and I don't care at the same time. but I like [MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION]'s list of not fitting in that was funny.

 

[cascadeco]

yep. I'm doing this whole program that teaches you how to be a freelance writer- in theory, a job I am essentially made for- but then you get to the part about the necessity of social networking and social media and all I can think is, ah here comes my nemesis to stab me in the back again, thwarting my every move.

That said, I'm trying to find a way to sidestep the whole social media bs, find my own way of making it happen. I'm hoping I'll get some tips from this book: Firefly Magic: Heart Powered Marketing for Highly Sensitive Writers: Lauren Sapala: 9780998853628: Amazon.com: Books

(ps I should add that I published a book last year but I am totally dying when it comes to the marketing aspect of it, because marketing is essentially being adept at using the social instinct, and more importantly, wanting to use it.)

Also, I didn't grow up in a toxic environment. Maybe potentially hazardous, but not toxic. My parents and siblings love me and are plenty supportive. I am the youngest of many kids with a huge extended family so you'd think I'd be hyper knowledgeable and into the social instinct. But it exhausts the hell out of me. It's like trying to read a People magazine.

I've bolded something I really relate to -- which is my not really wanting to use it / begrudgingly using it. I too have tried some more independent things (a book which I didn't market hence zero interest/awareness -- but that's ok, I think I ultimately did it more for me anyway, ha - and then art stuff), but I'm not willing to put the time/energy into really trying to 'build a network'. I just... really resist it, as it goes against my grain and values/what I find important in this world, and in the end probably don't care enough to do it, so I don't do it. So ultimately that means I have to accept that it's not really the direction that's for me / that I'm actually willing to do. I have small successes and I have become content with that. This may change over time, who knows... it's just how I've been for a while and I don't have any plans to shift anytime soon.

 

[1487610420]

^^^ I remember earlier in my relationship, floating the idea that my sx/sp INFP SO was social first because she throws so much in herself into connections with people. On further examination it turns out there's nothing social about it, it's all sexual, and vaguely threatening in intensity to my sp-first self.

examples?

 

[Qlip]

examples?

I was going to comment on this paragraph in the SO last descriptions posted by [MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION], may as well mix in an answer:

Connection/Care: The connections made by the sexual instinct do not involve bonding or reciprocity. This is not to say that they can’t feel love, but the instinctual drive itself is more concerned with connecting chemically as if getting a drug fix, and maintaining that locked-in high. They can make friendship bonds or other types of relationships with people, but they are often less “close” than it seems. Once the energy of attraction wears off, they might forget to maintain that bond as they search for a new energy fix. They also have less of a “screening process” for the people they interact with. SO has a sense of “good and bad people” built in, or an innate sense of knowing who has the same moral values or psychological understanding of the world. These similarities will bond them together. SO-blinds often ignore this, and the people in their life are less of a “big deal” or of something that needs to be focused on.

My SO's connections have a tendency to slant that direction, especially including the highlighted. I feel like the above paragraph is more sx/sp than just any old so-last. I'm not so at all, but I very much have a screening process for people I interact with, and a sense of 'good' and bad 'people' for my personal well being, which I think is very much in line with being an sp. Especially an sp with extraverted intuition.

My SO recently got mixed up in an "Evee/Magpie" situation in her classroom scene, there was a person who was playing the "persecuted shit-stirrer" card and a group of people formed around him, specifically exploiting tensions around the Lib vs Red divide, him being on the Lib side. It all went to hell for the entire class including the teachers, the divides are still healing. For me all the warning signs were there, I saw danger way ahead and pointed it out, my SO didn't get a whiff of it, even when pointed out. She really got drawn into the passion and intensity of it, and put in more energy than people gave back, and more care than they showed towards her.

She took some knocks, we talked about it a lot, and I could've said "I told you so". But really, she's doing fine right now, and at this moment is hanging with some Trump supporters on their farm, people who don't throw up strong danger signals for me. I'm a little more annoyed with the chaos for my own preferences, but I didn't take the brunt of it. But what keeps me worried, being who I am, is not having control over what chaos gets injected in our lives. It's definitely a tension point.

 

[rav3n]

As an SO last, I can't relate to much of that description.

 

[Hiraeth]

My one concern is, what if you're not the same person you were back in high school or even younger? Back in the day, I was totally aware of certain people and social outbursts that could make me more unpopular per se, but now as an adult I don't really care as much. I always liked to keep out of the big gossip and crap that was going on too. But I do think about what I would say before posting something because I don't want a wild herd trampling over me, though I can be totally aloof to social cues in real life and thought I had aspergers for a while because of it. Even then, I still had a thing of going against the grain and questioned why we did things that were a part of high school culture, like going to prom and football games. So I guess deep down I was a social critic, but now it's like I can care less about anything and am often out of the loop on a lot of modern pop culture.

It's like where do you connect the dots, especially if one has "evolved?" I would assume it's from when we were young, since that would show us the purest form of the instinct, but school is known for the whole social thing anyway and a lot of people took part in it. I guess it's because most would have the social instinct higher up in their stacking then? But if you were critical of the entire culture itself like I was, that could also make one a social 4 too, since they'd have some form of social awareness to be a critic in the first place. Or maybe it's not as complicated as I'm making it out to be.

 

[1487610420]

I was going to comment on this paragraph in the SO last descriptions posted by @chubber, may as well mix in an answer:



My SO's connections have a tendency to slant that direction, especially including the highlighted. I feel like the above paragraph is more sx/sp than just any old so-last. I'm not so at all, but I very much have a screening process for people I interact with, and a sense of 'good' and bad 'people' for my personal well being, which I think is very much in line with being an sp. Especially an sp with extraverted intuition.

My SO recently got mixed up in an "Evee/Magpie" situation in her classroom scene, there was a person who was playing the "persecuted shit-stirrer" card and a group of people formed around him, specifically exploiting tensions around the Lib vs Red divide, him being on the Lib side. It all went to hell for the entire class including the teachers, the divides are still healing. For me all the warning signs were there, I saw danger way ahead and pointed it out, my SO didn't get a whiff of it, even when pointed out. She really got drawn into the passion and intensity of it, and put in more energy than people gave back, and more care than they showed towards her.

She took some knocks, we talked about it a lot, and I could've said "I told you so". But really, she's doing fine right now, and at this moment is hanging with some Trump supporters on their farm, people who don't throw up strong danger signals for me. I'm a little more annoyed with the chaos for my own preferences, but I didn't take the brunt of it. But what keeps me worried, being who I am, is not having control over what chaos gets injected in our lives. It's definitely a tension point.

That's a useful and interesting example, I don't really relate to that blind sight and would rather prefer to not participate, unless maybe if it was someone I cared about a lot and felt there was a need to step in and

demolish everyone else.

 

[cascadeco]

My one concern is, what if you're not the same person you were back in high school or even younger? Back in the day, I was totally aware of certain people and social outbursts that could make me more unpopular per se, but now as an adult I don't really care as much. I always liked to keep out of the big gossip and crap that was going on too. But I do think about what I would say before posting something because I don't want a wild herd trampling over me, though I can be totally aloof to social cues in real life and thought I had aspergers for a while because of it. Even then, I still had a thing of going against the grain and questioned why we did things that were a part of high school culture, like going to prom and football games. So I guess deep down I was a social critic, but now it's like I can care less about anything and am often out of the loop on a lot of modern pop culture.

It's like where do you connect the dots, especially if one has "evolved?" I would assume it's from when we were young, since that would show us the purest form of the instinct, but school is known for the whole social thing anyway and a lot of people took part in it. I guess it's because most would have the social instinct higher up in their stacking then? But if you were critical of the entire culture itself like I was, that could also make one a social 4 too, since they'd have some form of social awareness to be a critic in the first place. Or maybe it's not as complicated as I'm making it out to be.

I'm not really sure, certainly no expert on it, but I'm becoming inclined to go the 'simple' route. I mean, personally I happened to be quite a quiet unconfident loner in school, and didn't have a group I socialized with, but I was certainly aware of them. I pretty much came home after school every day in high school and did my own thing - at least when I wasn't involved in music. One could even make the case that I became aware of these social nuances because not being a part of it, all I really did was observe the unfoldings. Yeah in the more complex analysis I could say 'oh I'm so dom or so aux, I can't be so last' because of this, but I also truly don't prioritize group elements, networks, etc, now. I'd also say that very very few people as youth aren't part of some social group, and this includes so-lasts. There are many an extroverted so-last who'd still have had friends and such in high school, and I would be surprised if all sports members, drama folks, debate team people, band members, whatever, were all so dom or aux. I guess I'm saying, I'm not sure how much weight I'd put on social awareness/critic, or in a group or not... I think there are several for-sure so lasts in this thread who probably pick up on social elements and dynamics, or are highly analytical or critical of social things (and who could prob shed better light on your questions!)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I'm not completely unaware of social elements, particularly basic observation of others. It's more that I prefer to be an outsider looking in for my own amusement (I love to secretly analyze people).

Let's say there's a scale for asocial folks with cynicism (mistrust of people and tendency to think they're out for themselves) on one side and contempt (disregard for another and possibly viewing others as inferior) on the other. I would definitely tip to the contemptuous side (unflattering admission but true). I think the folks who tip to the cynical side probably actually care about social security (no, not the government program) more but have turned away from it because of mistrust, which implies a certain level of bitterness for not being supported to the extent that they desire, which could mean that they are indeed So but have a negative orientation with it.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

(That's not to act as a representation for all So-lasts)

 

[rav3n]

There are many an extroverted so-last who'd still have had friends and such in high school, and I would be surprised if all sports members, drama folks, debate team people, band members, whatever, were all so dom or aux. I guess I'm saying, I'm not sure how much weight I'd put on social awareness/critic, or in a group or not... I think there are several for-sure so lasts in this thread who probably pick up on social elements and dynamics, or are highly analytical or critical of social things (and who could prob shed better light on your questions!)

That's me, part of the cool kids in high school but still hung out with other groups or individuals when the mood struck. Some of the groups and individuals were people that my clique wouldn't have hung out with if you paid them but social status never drove me so their opinions didn't bother me. But my friends always thought of me as eccentric which is true so they didn't ostracize me from their group for doing so and if they did, whatev. The great part is that the core group of us are still friends where we've lost a few and picked a few up in college.

I do see social dynamics quite clearly most often (sometimes I miss them too). But I won't pander to social hierarchies and for sure, won't pander to King or Queen Bs.

 

[Hiraeth]

I'm not really sure, certainly no expert on it, but I'm becoming inclined to go the 'simple' route. I mean, personally I happened to be quite a quiet unconfident loner in school, and didn't have a group I socialized with, but I was certainly aware of them. I pretty much came home after school every day in high school and did my own thing - at least when I wasn't involved in music. One could even make the case that I became aware of these social nuances because not being a part of it, all I really did was observe the unfoldings. Yeah in the more complex analysis I could say 'oh I'm so dom or so aux, I can't be so last' because of this, but I also truly don't prioritize group elements, networks, etc, now. I'd also say that very very few people as youth aren't part of some social group, and this includes so-lasts. There are many an extroverted so-last who'd still have had friends and such in high school, and I would be surprised if all sports members, drama folks, debate team people, band members, whatever, were all so dom or aux. I guess I'm saying, I'm not sure how much weight I'd put on social awareness/critic, or in a group or not... I think there are several for-sure so lasts in this thread who probably pick up on social elements and dynamics, or are highly analytical or critical of social things (and who could prob shed better light on your questions!)

Absolutely. It would be strange for someone to be so-dom if they aren't affiliated with any groups even if they are fully aware -- because who isn't aware to some extent? I wasn't involved with social groups in school either, or I tried but never could keep up because it always felt off. It did seem like everyone around me had some kind of social life that I was never a part of. Networking is also something I've never understood and avoided as much as possible. Plus I actually like being outside the social loop for the most part; it never really bothered me as much as it seemed to for other people.

I guess if you find yourself identifying with nearly everything about so-blindspots, then perhaps that makes a person one as well, especially if we seem to still find holes in the possibility of being an so-dom. I think another thing is that people assume sp 4s are the rough and rugged 4s while so 4s are the tenderhearted 4s, but I don't think that's always the case either.

We probably have been over-analyzing this the whole time, but isn't that what typology folks tend to do anyway?

 

[Obfuscate]

being so last isn't "bad", so the thread title seems a bit odd to me... i will say that it is a bit inconvenient when it comes to meeting new people however... i don't really know what to say to people that i don't allready know in most circumstances, and i don't like creating artificial scenarios to ease the process... i think that is one of the reasons i like things like rainbow gatherings... the whole environment is conducive to meeting new people, and i am like a fish in water there... most often in groups i listen and watch, and there are a few reasons for that... i sort of like analyzing people, guessing what they will do/say, and putting things i observe in a mental filing cabinet... by the time i do want to say something, conversation isn't leaving a ton of easy gaps for me (as often as not, the conversation has changed topics before i found an opening i liked)... i guess that is one of the reasons i enjoy talking online... i can type as someone else types; talking while someone talks is sort of a mess... there is also more time in which i can format my thoughts... even online i have trouble with meeting folks though... i don't have much trouble keeping up with social rules, pecking orders, and the like... however, i just don't find things like that interesting to discuss... to me it is like discussing the weather... there are conditions that are favorable or disfavorable, but why some person is an asshole is like talking about how much snow fell last night... i think a lot of people interpret silence as intelligence, fear, plotting, agreement, evasiveness and any other number of things that suit their assumptions... it can be a handy thing to see how people react when you are quiet... i don't really like parties much... i used to think that i did, but the more i went to, the more i realized that i only like the idea of them... most of the time i end up listening to someone complain about something while other people have fun... i notice some of my friends work super hard to have me participate in group disscussions, but most are used to me not speaking... anyhow, i am not as socially awkward as this makes me sound... it's not so much that i am incapable of any of these things; it's just that it is uncomfortable and feels like work... i really like being sx first (most of the time)...

 

[brainheart]

being so last isn't "bad", so the thread title seems a bit odd to me...

I don't know that anyone is saying that it's bad (maybe they are, I haven't read that carefully), more that it can be difficult to exist in the world when the social instinct is the standard operating procedure for many things, especially in order to make an income. For example, self employment makes a lot of sense for people who are social last, but a big part of self employment is social networking. As you say, if it's not your forte, it's uncomfortable and feels like work, while so many people seem to enjoy it and do it naturally, with ease. So it can feel like a real handicap. You can hire people to handle the social stuff for you, but you have to have the money to hire the people, or somehow get the people's attention, and so...

 

[Obfuscate]

I don't know that anyone is saying that it's bad (maybe they are, I haven't read that carefully), more that it can be difficult to exist in the world when the social instinct is the standard operating procedure for many things, especially in order to make an income. For example, self employment makes a lot of sense for people who are social last, but a big part of self employment is social networking. As you say, if it's not your forte, it's uncomfortable and feels like work, while so many people seem to enjoy it and do it naturally, with ease. So it can feel like a real handicap. You can hire people to handle the social stuff for you, but you have to have the money to hire the people, or somehow get the people's attention, and so...

yeah, i sort of get that, but there are so many advantages to my sx first that i think of it as a wash... parts of any scenario suck, but i lean more on how to leverage what i do have rather than worrying about what others do... i am happier that way...

post script:

i don't intend to come across as critical, that's just how i think...