Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Social Last Support Group

[Neokortex]

Social last here. The world isn't difficult to navigate. I do things my way and that has resulted in what's conventionally perceived as success. That said, the result of this perceived success doesn't make me happy but what does make me happy is the freedom to do what I want.

My prior stage in life was insanely stressful and full where I loved the stress and pace of it. But what I found is that it's like being a hamster on a wheel, where it's never enough so round and round you go, seeking bigger hits. So, I got off the hamster wheel and have found that a simple life makes me happy. Had I not gotten remarried, I was actually considering downsizing from 4400 sq/ft to a tiny home.

Converter says that's ~409 m2 --- how modest of you: couple in Europe may live in 15-25 square meters. What do you need that for, as social last as you seem, to invite all your 30-60 non-downsized friends over to party?

 

[Neokortex]

But if you were critical of the entire culture itself like I was, that could also make one a social 4 too, since they'd have some form of social awareness to be a critic in the first place. Or maybe it's not as complicated as I'm making it out to be.

I'm a social 4(w3) (but overall a social blind spot) and especially in matters of representation, art, current cool looks, advertising styles, etc. I'm more or less up to date and find almost everything to be criticized. Like 2ndary socials pretending to be social blindspots.

I think another thing is that people assume sp 4s are the rough and rugged 4s while so 4s are the tenderhearted 4s, but I don't think that's always the case either.

Could be a strange coincidence but that also applies to me. Underneath my "Sx/Sp" protection (ya' know, gothic "lonewolf" with a hidden soft heart) I am pretty much a softie... on the upside. On the downside, however,... I'll tell you two names only: Bernard Marx and Johnny Mnemonic.

 

[Neokortex]

-

 

[Neokortex]

I'm liking this:

Instinct Stackings - Enneagram

I don't know that anyone is saying that it's bad (maybe they are, I haven't read that carefully), more that it can be difficult to exist in the world when the social instinct is the standard operating procedure for many things, especially in order to make an income. For example, self employment makes a lot of sense for people who are social last, but a big part of self employment is social networking. As you say, if it's not your forte, it's uncomfortable and feels like work, while so many people seem to enjoy it and do it naturally, with ease. So it can feel like a real handicap. You can hire people to handle the social stuff for you, but you have to have the money to hire the people, or somehow get the people's attention, and so...

I second the latter. Plus, after reading Joseph Simon's description and the latter, it feels like...: I'm going to die. I'm going to slowly, agonizingly, with protracted suffering pass away like a beggar laying on the side-walk. Man, her writing is so penetrating and punitive. I didn't expect so many things that still can be said of these "instincts," after all the boring arcane and new agey stuff out there, but most of all didn't expect to learn that all along I've been hiding, keeping these from admission. Urrrrghhh, maaan. We are deformities, aren't we? Hunchbacks, maladaptively maldeveloped things. We are fucking going to die, man!!!! Unless some batshit crazy So/Sx wide-eyed fairy comes along to caress our hidden psychopath and gracefully integrate us monsters back into the conniving, fake social realm of feeling two feet above the ground = "civilized" since the invention of division (outsourcing) of labor with 3rd world countries and working classes taking on minding our shit, slaughtering and processing animals for our daily proteins, sweatshopping our clothes, etc, etc.... I mean integrate us more since we are already civilized as I'm typing this here....

The SX-blind stackings are perfectly capable of having enjoyable sex, but this area might be less of a “sacred” place for them. Some SX-blinds will not want to have sex unless they’re in “love” (or feel a social bond), and others are comfortable satisfying their sexual urges as simply a bodily function that’s enjoyable (especially SP/SO). This is contrary to the mating dance that SX-doms play into, the attraction strategy is the things they’re over-identified with, rather than the physical

wut??? Did she just call me a peacock, right there? I fucking can't believe this. I'm going die alone, miserably and on top of that be remembered as some exhibitionist asshole by the fact of being a loose cannon, the odd-one-out who couldn't keep his head low because he so much, so loudly needed to find a mate (instead of the more elegant, subtle social ways). Arrrgh man, it's so cringeworthy that we are cringeworthy, maaaan, I'm gonna hang myself, if only I was at least an Sp/Sx, that would have been way more dignifying. (But then again, dignity and retaining a social face is also something dependent on the 2-feet-above ground sense that comes from sharing responsibility, having technology's aid our bodies and the Other(s) groups granting Us, by doing the harder, dirtier labor the intersubjectivity of feeling "right," more elevated, more worthy, dignified. Which, in fact, nobody is.)

 

[Neokortex]

As for remembering names and faces, that's also hard for me to say because of inferior Si. I don't think any ENxPs are very good at doing so, but perhaps having So higher up would at least give them reason to put extra effort into it. I am neither naturally good at nor do I care enough to try harder to fix it. I generally rely on assistance from a coworker who's Si Dom and So first to help me with that ("Is that my client out there?") She can even remember what kind of fucking cars my clients drive (seeing them pull into the lot through the window). It blows my mind.

And I still remember your avatar of a cosmic hand caressing a black hole vagina. That was before that mountains with clouds hipsterish avatar (or red squid tentacles). (My mom's an ISTJ and I'm a mid-range Sx/Sp, with almost equally strong Sp on head-type). And I also remember your pics I commented on about that coy smile. Which I think is definitely not ENFP. I'm seeing you more as an INFJ swinging between 4 and 8, So/Sx and Sp/Sx (which would make an overall low range So/Sx). Maybe w/ a lot narrower So (as can be expected from an introvert) but still there. Sorry if this was unsolicited.
Oh, and...

-being almost ridiculously particular about things like lighting/temperature in a room, temperature of my food, what clothes are not only attractive but ALSO comfortable (my fashion sense is probably far too muted for an Sx 4)

but for what ends? I'm sure my Sx/Sp is for social ends. But I keep failing at social stuff, I'm not really neutral about it either, as you wrote (how could one if it always leads to deficiencies? "little importance" means you're good enough so as it not to call attention to it). It's one thing people say and another thing people do. You may act out/sublimate your So/Sx 4 tendencies in Sp related concerns, topics. And I think that because, as me being at my core So/Sp 4w3, your self-expression here on the forum I experience as a lot stronger than mine, not just due to 8 (which might add the "Sx" element to it in the dynamic) but due to being up-to-date with and willingly (w/out criticism) manifesting current image-culture. I'm also more or less knowledgeable of it but I don't want to perpetuate the current looks, images, etc. Except for the elitist (w3) stuff (and even that with reservations and self-reflexive criticism). Plus, I've also noticed you have a more blended in, stronger presence on the forum. Whereas I'm only on/off, unpredictably present. I wish to get attention, which I guess most social 4s do but I either ruin it by being a contrarian Sx 6 or I just don't go the lengths, don't stick around as much to receive it. Whereas I don't see you going against the grain so much here, which is alright for an Sp/Sx, but then odd for an 8. I think strong Sp/Sxes are really under the radar people, whereas your image type is a lot stronger, you know the vagina avatar and the other pic in which your naked legs could be seen. And I don't think Sp/Sx would go so... public or would disperse their sexuality so wide... selfies are rather a popular form to "market" sexuality / give off a "cool girl" (ownes up their sexuality, promotes it shamelessly) vibe. Plus, having a low Si and a being an Sp-dom is a contradiction. Especially since you have a low Si you overcompensate the Self-Pres stuff. Real Sp-doms I think are more silent about it. And I'm not one for sure bc I've already wasted my time with giving this long reply, obsessing over your inconsistencies too much and reading back on posts I've missed when the topic was hot.

 

[Neokortex]

I don't want to be spoken to when I'm eating. [...]

I avoid eye contact as much as possible. [...]

I really sound like a piece of shit right now, don't I?

No, you sound like a person being enough of a player in the social game and enough aware of it to be wanting to give off an image that they had more Fi than Fe, the ethical awareness of the immoralities of social connivance --- thus that they weren't a player at all. But guess what, I bought cheap clothes from the Chinese shop so I'm perpetuating their exploitation (on whichever ship they toil away to make all these stuff in super-fast rhythm), which makes me a player. Tough truth but no man is an island.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION] - I will absorb and process your input for further discussion, because I am sincerely interested in the debate, but my initial and honest reaction is irritation and anger.

I will point out though that despite all of your projected expertise on instincts, you list in your signature that your enneagram fixes have different instincts, which is completely faulty logic and not how the systems work.

Before I respond fully, I'd like to say that I've gotten to a point where I'm completely okay with being off the mark in any of my self-typings, but I do get fucking irritated when people arrogantly act like they know me super well based on solely my forum presence. It's merely one projection of myself and not even close to a fully rounded representation of me. Perhaps that is an So thing? And I'm okay with that if that's the case, but not a single one of you here knows how I am in the flesh, and that's an extremely important missing piece of the puzzle. All I can do is attempt to view that and explain it to you all as I vocalize my thought processes with regard to typing.

 

[ceecee]

I'm excellent at networking if it's a one-on-one or a clear opportunity, but I'm no mingler. I can deal very well with a colleague of a colleague, if someone else initiates, when it's clear that we share an interest, or if I know for certain that talking to some specific person will help me. I used to be pretty good at mingling, but I ultimately decided that it's too exhausting to bother with. I've got an online career presence, which is great because it's passive.

I also can't carve out time to devote to a large circle of friends, which

I had to become comfortable with the fact that it's not for me, since the outward-facing notion is that everybody does it.

But my wife is a so-first, so it ain't so bad anyway. She can coordinate that stuff when we both "have" to do it, and we're not codependent enough that she has to isolate herself with me or that I have to do everything she does.

This. It's hard (and I'm in no way diminishing your experiences) as a woman because you really don't get the luxury of stating this up front about yourself. It's hard for some to admit it to themselves.

My ENFJ is also SO first. He makes it much easier to do the "have to" stuff and I don't care that he doesn't do the things I do (although we do share some interests). I don't want or need a large circle of friends, I'm comfortable one on one (unless it's someone I have nothing in common with) and I'm mature enough to be able to say - I'm not good at this and don't want to do it.

The only oddness is I'm considering a career change to a non-profit health outreach organization. The current political/social climate is almost unbearable to me (in regards to the vulnerable that are being harmed), I'm feeling a big pull towards working full time to help others, at least in the health care arena. I get that it's going to require more socializing than I've done in the past but if that's the sacrifice I need to make, I'm good with it.

 

[Hiraeth]

I'm a social 4(w3) (but overall a social blind spot) and especially in matters of representation, art, current cool looks, advertising styles, etc. I'm more or less up to date and find almost everything to be criticized. Like 2ndary socials pretending to be social blindspots.

Not sure if this was aimed toward me, but nowhere did I mention I am certain to be social last, only identified with a lot of their issues and still questioned the possibility. Anyway, carry on.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Not sure if this was aimed toward me, but nowhere did I mention I am certain to be social last, only identified with a lot of their issues and still questioned the possibility. Anyway, carry on.

He (or she, I'm not sure) is just being intentionally abrasive. Most of what was said wasn't even logical/cohesive, so I wouldn't worry about it much.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I've decided that was in fact my full response because I give no fucks.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I often instantly regret adding Facebook "friends", particularly work folk. I also get annoyed by all of their overly shiny group photos and their shallow conversations. I look forward to regular purges. My list stays around 100 people total.

I'd honestly rather see pictures of food. Or emo solo selfies.

Sometimes I'm temporarily blinded by the reflection off of their teeth.

 

[chubber]

I've decided that was in fact my full response because I give no fucks.

Sharing, is caring.

 

[brainheart]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION],

I hear ya. For fours, this is the problem (and the delicious torture) of overly negative descriptions. Oh how we love to get caught up in our flaws.

The sexual instinct isn't an obsession with sex so much as everything in life has this tinge to the sexual about it. Whatever turns you on - for sexual doms, that's the deal. We need to be 'turned on' in order to pay attention, in order to be motivated. If we're not aroused (by work, by a conversation, by sex), we struggle. As a self pres second, I care less about it than the sexual instinct, but I get how it's important, so I really try to work at it. Social instinct, however, it's like everything within me disengages and my eyes glaze over. I read things written by people who are similar to me (INFx, enneagram 4, artists/writers, etc), but social first or second, and I try to take their advice to heart on how to engage the social, mainly to support my self pres- I need to make some money. But it's just not working, probably especially because they seem to enjoy it, like they get a physical thrill from social engagement. If I could find a way for the social to support my sexual instinct, maybe that would motivate me. I haven't figured out how to make that work yet.

Basically, what I'm saying here is I need some money-making advice from a fellow sx/sp. Or social last.

I often instantly regret adding Facebook "friends"

What is facebook beyond instant regret?

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I generally deal with things by myself and can take care of myself, so, support groups have never been for me.

 

[ceecee]

I'd honestly rather see pictures of food. Or emo solo selfies.

Dunno why you're wasting time on FB when what you really want is Instagram.

 

[Bush]

I often instantly regret adding Facebook "friends", particularly work folk. I also get annoyed by all of their overly shiny group photos and their shallow conversations.

You could add them but mute their posts if you care about the RL rapport or something, too.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

You could add them but mute their posts if you care about the RL rapport or something, too.

I don't care about rapport at all. It's more like I'll add the 1-2 people I like, then get requests from others who then find me. I'll let them sit in limbo for awhile and then sometimes give in. I think I don't wanna hurt their feelings but then end up grumpy with myself for giving in.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Dunno why you're wasting time on FB when what you really want is Instagram.

I started Instagram like 2 or 3 years ago. I have 8 pictures and 7 of them are nature/animals, and 1 is a picture of a hanging plant in my cozy bedroom and only my legs can be seen.

I like Instagram only for the art, but look at it maybe once every other month or so.

I use no other social media besides the forum.

 

[cascadeco]

I don't care about rapport at all. It's more like I'll add the 1-2 people I like, then get requests from others who then find me. I'll let them sit in limbo for awhile and then sometimes give in. I think I don't wanna hurt their feelings but then end up grumpy with myself for giving in.

It can be a dilemma. I've added a few in the past who since I didn't have anything against them per se I just added them.... but I always end up deleting them after say a year. Especially since the whole thing is really silly with non-friends... it's not like I ever interact with these people via FB or outside of it -- especially once people leave a job or move, etc.

I currently have like 4 coworkers linked up, and I've gotten requests from two others who I left in limbo, one of whom was just ridiculous, as it was obvious I didn't like her and she had no reason to think I liked her but she still sent me a request (as she did with everyone in the store), and then the other I just totally dislike so he stays in limbo.