Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Social Last Support Group

[Peter Deadpan]

Can I just say quickly that the So instinct has absolutely nothing to with socializing, per say, and actually revolves around there being some sort of dedicated attention to the self and how one relates to and fits within a group. It is more "How do these people see me? Where do I fit in? How can I get to where I want to be within the hierarchy?" Or, alternatively, it can be "How can I actively rebel against the hierarchy of this group and fuck it all up with my presence, thereby having a presence and position?" It can be either positively associated (the former) or negatively associated (the latter).

The Fauvres typed Kurt Cobain as a social 4 somewhere along the way because apparently he is representative of a negatively associated So dom. I am not entirely sure that I agree because I haven't reflected upon it enough, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

Here is a simple way to assess what instinctual variants you value:

Which of the following describe your existence? Which one, in its absence, would represent you ceasing to exist (first position)? Which one are you naturally good at and freely use as a tool (second position)? Which one do I feel "meh" about, and could take it or leave it (last position)?

1. I am my body.
2. I am my relationship/energy.
3. I am my group/community.

For me, this is my actual order. Sp stuff really directs my overall mental and emotional well-being and has the power to completely fuck me up, either stealing my energy or making me act out in weird ways. I don't necessarily feel stressed out about Sx stuff, as I feel I have it pretty under control and can manipulate it at my will. So stuff is generally neutral and of little importance to me - I am drawn to individuals at times, but never groups. (I acknowledge that I have a very strong Sx, and I think it is because the vast majority of my life was spent in times lacking basic Sp needs, so over time, I learned to lean on that Sx more to give me more of a sense of power and control, easing anxiety).

 

[Peter Deadpan]

(If I'm not Sp/Sx, I'm Sx/Sp... definitely So last, but I like to stay somewhat open to the possibility of missing a certain perspective and subsequently being mistyped)

 

[rav3n]

(If I'm not Sp/Sx, I'm Sx/Sp... definitely So last, but I like to stay somewhat open to the possibility of missing a certain perspective and subsequently being mistyped)

What matters more to you, self-protection or deep intimate relationships (whether sexual or not)?

 

[Coriolis]

The difference between valued and skillfully used is a tad muddy, particularly in unbalanced individuals. The real question is: Where do you shine?

We tend to be better (more skillful) at what we do more often (practice), and we tend to do more often what we are more comfortable doing. Whether this last aligns with what we also value is not guaranteed.

 

[Snow as White]

I can relate to the job issues so much. I think every report card I had as a kid was "needs to learn how to work well with others". Which followed me into jobs more often than not, or complaints by relatives, where they echoed the same thing: "didn't greet anyone or say goodbye to anyone during work day." which always left me thinking, yeah, but how did I do at the rest of it, ie my actual job??

I also hate the social politics ladder at work. I can see something going on, but it gets filed at the same level as everything else I notice, until later when shit inevitably hits the fan and then I'm like, oh ok so that thing I noticed was important. huh.

I have 0 pictures of family and friends around my apartment. I never think anything of it until someone with SO in their stack comes to visit and they are like, still unpacking? Where are your family pics? And I'm like, um in my mind? also in this dark closet there is a box, i think? of pics? maybe? meanwhile their home glows with the light of a million smiles shimmering from their many photos as they infest their walls and horizontal spaces, creating a gravity well from which no non human photo can escape.

any social graces i have, have been hammered into me by my long suffering SX/SO mother who was always horrified at my "antics" growing up.

my step-mother is some combo of SP/SO and my god do we clash. the most innocuous things i say get inflated to the orbit of the moon. we went ziplining on a family vacation one year and she asked me what she should tip. like i'm mary post's tip calculator in human form. i shrugged and said, i dont do adult things like that. which set off adultgate whereupon she involved my dad and they tore into me on how immature they find me at times. so it's inconvenient and confusing half the time where i'm like, i just said one thing. it just meant this one thing. why is suddenly all of these other things.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

What matters more to you, self-protection or deep intimate relationships (whether sexual or not)?

This has been exceedingly difficult for me to answer, but I think that because I feel very guarded/withdrawn, like I am looking outside of myself at baseline, and that I am hard "to get to", that Sp takes importance over Sx. I am very, v e r y choosy about whom I open up to intimately, and it can probably be frustrating to people who want to get close to me at times. But, both So-last types can be like that. I can only open up to people truly if I have a safe place first, which entails a lot of trust and toe-dipping first.

Actually, what pushed me to claim Sp/Sx over Sx/Sp is complex but rather logical.
1. I do not identify with competitive envy, which is integral to the Sx 4. I generally stuff envy down and away where it can't be seen.
2. I put forth a lot of effort into observing my daily thoughts, and I realized how often I do weird Sp things and how conscious I am of things like:
-cross-contamination
-securing my belongings in public
-being frugal
-repetitive thoughts about health (inferior Si will still cause me to have trouble committing to healthy practices)
-morbid yet comfortable thoughts of death (somewhat specific to Sp 4s)
-being almost ridiculously particular about things like lighting/temperature in a room, temperature of my food, what clothes are not only attractive but ALSO comfortable (my fashion sense is probably far too muted for an Sx 4)
-the realization that I exist in an almost physical invisible bubble that is only penetrable at my choosing
-high concern with my credit score and finances (I pretend I don't have the money that I do have so that I don't spend it)
-splurges for me are actually kind of ridiculous because they are usually either necessary or extremely well-deserved
-I take great pleasure in decorating my "cave" and relaxing in it. Great. Pleasure. Do not interfere.
-probably way more stuff

I tried to recognize when I act similarly in relation to Sx and the 4's envy, and the only things I can identify are internal comparison, which is generally physical in nature and doesn't extend into my professional life, and wanting a partner who isn't completely fucking boring or hideous. I think I make far too many compromises in my relationships for an Sx 4, and I am usually most stressed when something my partner does affects my well-being (blowing money, making me feel like I could be in physical danger, recognizing when they are effecting my mental health, poor lifestyle choices that I don't want to be a part of, etc). I do still have the near constant "but what if there is something better out there?" but I don't think it necessarily guides me at a deep level.

I know a 4 Sx/Sp, and man... she is really something else. Fire and ice, that one. I'm more like ice with a melted watery core but the power to freeze others to the point of burn if I am pushed too far. She's just sort of volatile and all over the place, constantly changing relationships and living situations and jobs, etc. I couldn't handle all that change and in fact, that is what has stressed me out so much these last few years.

Also, I think you can see the withdrawn nature in my photos, as if I hide power behind a wall. I personally find visual identification compelling.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

We tend to be better (more skillful) at what we do more often (practice), and we tend to do more often what we are more comfortable doing. Whether this last aligns with what we also value is not guaranteed.

Specific variables that come to mind are mental health issues, looping, and substance abuse.

 

[rav3n]

This has been exceedingly difficult for me to answer, but I think that because I feel very guarded/withdrawn, like I am looking outside of myself at baseline, and that I am hard "to get to", that Sp takes importance over Sx. I am very, v e r y choosy about whom I open up to intimately, and it can probably be frustrating to people who want to get close to me at times. But, both So-last types can be like that. I can only open up to people truly if I have a safe place first, which entails a lot of trust and toe-dipping first.

Actually, what pushed me to claim Sp/Sx over Sx/Sp is complex but rather logical.
1. I do not identify with competitive envy, which is integral to the Sx 4. I generally stuff envy down and away where it can't be seen.
2. I put forth a lot of effort into observing my daily thoughts, and I realized how often I do weird Sp things and how conscious I am of things like:
-cross-contamination
-securing my belongings in public
-being frugal
-repetitive thoughts about health (inferior Si will still cause me to have trouble committing to healthy practices)
-morbid yet comfortable thoughts of death (somewhat specific to Sp 4s)
-being almost ridiculously particular about things like lighting/temperature in a room, temperature of my food, what clothes are not only attractive but ALSO comfortable (my fashion sense is probably far too muted for an Sx 4)
-the realization that I exist in an almost physical invisible bubble that is only penetrable at my choosing
-high concern with my credit score and finances (I pretend I don't have the money that I do have so that I don't spend it)
-splurges for me are actually kind of ridiculous because they are usually either necessary or extremely well-deserved
-I take great pleasure in decorating my "cave" and relaxing in it. Great. Pleasure. Do not interfere.
-probably way more stuff

I tried to recognize when I act similarly in relation to Sx and the 4's envy, and the only things I can identify are internal comparison, which is generally physical in nature and doesn't extend into my professional life, and wanting a partner who isn't completely fucking boring or hideous. I think I make far too many compromises in my relationships for an Sx 4, and I am usually most stressed when something my partner does affects my well-being (blowing money, making me feel like I could be in physical danger, recognizing when they are effecting my mental health, poor lifestyle choices that I don't want to be a part of, etc). I do still have the near constant "but what if there is something better out there?" but I don't think it necessarily guides me at a deep level.

I know a 4 Sx/Sp, and man... she is really something else. Fire and ice, that one. I'm more like ice with a melted watery core but the power to freeze others to the point of burn if I am pushed too far. She's just sort of volatile and all over the place, constantly changing relationships and living situations and jobs, etc. I couldn't handle all that change and in fact, that is what has stressed me out so much these last few years.

Also, I think you can see the withdrawn nature in my photos, as if I hide power behind a wall. I personally find visual identification compelling.

Understood. That said, I'll add these profiles so you can decide which has the greater draw, whether to change or confirm the sp/sx.

sx/sp
This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.

Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer

Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from “Hunchback of Notre Dame”

sp/sx
These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other’s condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant’s surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

Familiar Roles: the mate, the mystic, the quiet supporter.

Examples: George Harrison, Jackie Onassis, Eric Clapton, Emily Dickinson

Basic and Type Stackings | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

 

[ceecee]

This is why I want to be self-employed. So. Badly.

It's the reason I mostly work from home. It saves my social energy for my other interests that do involve people.

 

[Snow as White]

It's the reason I mostly work from home. It saves my social energy for my other interests that do involve people.

Living the dream.

 

[Yuurei]

I can relate to the job issues so much. I think every report card I had as a kid was "needs to learn how to work well with others". Which followed me into jobs more often than not, or complaints by relatives, where they echoed the same thing: "didn't greet anyone or say goodbye to anyone during work day." which always left me thinking, yeah, but how did I do at the rest of it, ie my actual job??

I also hate the social politics ladder at work. I can see something going on, but it gets filed at the same level as everything else I notice, until later when shit inevitably hits the fan and then I'm like, oh ok so that thing I noticed was important. huh.

I have 0 pictures of family and friends around my apartment. I never think anything of it until someone with SO in their stack comes to visit and they are like, still unpacking? Where are your family pics? And I'm like, um in my mind? also in this dark closet there is a box, i think? of pics? maybe? meanwhile their home glows with the light of a million smiles shimmering from their many photos as they infest their walls and horizontal spaces, creating a gravity well from which no non human photo can escape.

any social graces i have, have been hammered into me by my long suffering SX/SO mother who was always horrified at my "antics" growing up.

my step-mother is some combo of SP/SO and my god do we clash. the most innocuous things i say get inflated to the orbit of the moon. we went ziplining on a family vacation one year and she asked me what she should tip. like i'm mary post's tip calculator in human form. i shrugged and said, i dont do adult things like that. which set off adultgate whereupon she involved my dad and they tore into me on how immature they find me at times. so it's inconvenient and confusing half the time where i'm like, i just said one thing. it just meant this one thing. why is suddenly all of these other things.

I agree with most of this but can we stop with the stereotypes?
Being a social media whore and taking selfies has nothing to do with type. Like i said I've got somewhere in the top 50% but I can still relate. No, I have no family pictures. I have no Instagram and The last time someone tried to take a a selfy at my home I was quite disgusted and told them to take that shit outside.

My sister's home is just FULL of pictures and it makes me kinda sick. A lot of it is because she's over-compensating for our family life growing up. It wasn't horrible, we just weren't close. And also because she has always been SO self-asorbed. Every year for Christmas she gives out pictures of herself as gifts and I'm like "WTF am I supposed to do wit t this?"

Anyway, the irony is painful; I'm an extrovert who doesn't get along with most extroverts. Yet the introverts are like ' You aren't one of us you don't get it!" So I'm somewhere in between all the groups.


On the job front; I tried to find a job again. I walked into the stores in person, I was personable, but it does NO good if no one is hiring part time. ( Which they aren't) While I am quite frustrated I am also curious as to the reason. My firs response always "They are cheap but then I thought that they were cheap ( part-timers do not get benefits) but maybe just the two paychecks would be more expensive than one plus benefits. I dunno.
I always hear business complain that they can't hire anyone but they are so picky. Surely, part-time is better than no help.

 

[Luminous]

I can really relate to your troubles figuring out if you're sx/sp or sp/sx, Peter Deadpan. I think I must be so last because I don't care about social hierarchies either. I do have a couple of questions, though (and I hope this is an okay place to ask them? since they are specifically about so instincts and clarifying just what that is?)

-Eye contact: enjoying eye contact with anyone or everyone? would that be indicative of so? only enjoying eye contact with special persons? would that be indicative of sx?
-Same question for remembering names/faces/details?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Thanks [MENTION=10808]bechimo[/MENTION], I've actually done hours and hours of research involving types, so I have read those and others. It's become a bit of a hobby.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

-Eye contact: enjoying eye contact with anyone or everyone? would that be indicative of so? only enjoying eye contact with special persons? would that be indicative of sx?
-Same question for remembering names/faces/details?

I'm not exactly sure about the eye contact thing. I have read that Ne doms don't often make direct eye contact because they tend to always be processing and looking around as they do so. I can make eye contact just fine with someone when I am listening intently, or with people I know well. Otherwise, I generally don't do so unless someone catches my eye, or I'm using eye contact as a quiet power move (yes, I do this and enjoy it sometimes).

As for remembering names and faces, that's also hard for me to say because of inferior Si. I don't think any ENxPs are very good at doing so, but perhaps having So higher up would at least give them reason to put extra effort into it. I am neither naturally good at nor do I care enough to try harder to fix it. I generally rely on assistance from a coworker who's Si Dom and So first to help me with that ("Is that my client out there?") She can even remember what kind of fucking cars my clients drive (seeing them pull into the lot through the window). It blows my mind.

 

[cascadeco]

Can I just say quickly that the So instinct has absolutely nothing to with socializing, per say, and actually revolves around there being some sort of dedicated attention to the self and how one relates to and fits within a group. It is more "How do these people see me? Where do I fit in? How can I get to where I want to be within the hierarchy?" Or, alternatively, it can be "How can I actively rebel against the hierarchy of this group and fuck it all up with my presence, thereby having a presence and position?" It can be either positively associated (the former) or negatively associated (the latter).

The Fauvres typed Kurt Cobain as a social 4 somewhere along the way because apparently he is representative of a negatively associated So dom. I am not entirely sure that I agree because I haven't reflected upon it enough, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

Here is a simple way to assess what instinctual variants you value:

Which of the following describe your existence? Which one, in its absence, would represent you ceasing to exist (first position)? Which one are you naturally good at and freely use as a tool (second position)? Which one do I feel "meh" about, and could take it or leave it (last position)?

1. I am my body.
2. I am my relationship/energy.
3. I am my group/community.

If it's this simple, I'd probably be sp/sx, simply because I haven't ever really had a group/community. ? However that seems almost too simple. I'd say otherwise I'd be sp/so, and I guess if that were the case it would have to be the negative version; however I don't actively or proactively try to sow discord in whatever group in order to then have a position, so that doesn't apply to me either. If we go by occam's razor, guess I'm sp/sx? haha. It is becoming clear to me with time (though it should probably have been self-evident long ago, I just wasn't going the occam's razor route), that I'm very sp-dom, and my own protection/attending to myself/care for self has definitely always come first.

 

[Agent Washington]

The difference between valued and skillfully used is a tad muddy, particularly in unbalanced individuals. The real question is: Where do you shine?

Probably Ti/Te... I usually gather a lot of scientifically proven materials and analyse them.

 

[Snow as White]

I agree with most of this but can we stop with the stereotypes?
Being a social media whore and taking selfies has nothing to do with type. Like i said I've got somewhere in the top 50% but I can still relate. No, I have no family pictures. I have no Instagram and The last time someone tried to take a a selfy at my home I was quite disgusted and told them to take that shit outside.

My sister's home is just FULL of pictures and it makes me kinda sick. A lot of it is because she's over-compensating for our family life growing up. It wasn't horrible, we just weren't close. And also because she has always been SO self-asorbed. Every year for Christmas she gives out pictures of herself as gifts and I'm like "WTF am I supposed to do wit t this?"

Anyway, the irony is painful; I'm an extrovert who doesn't get along with most extroverts. Yet the introverts are like ' You aren't one of us you don't get it!" So I'm somewhere in between all the groups.


On the job front; I tried to find a job again. I walked into the stores in person, I was personable, but it does NO good if no one is hiring part time. ( Which they aren't) While I am quite frustrated I am also curious as to the reason. My firs response always "They are cheap but then I thought that they were cheap ( part-timers do not get benefits) but maybe just the two paychecks would be more expensive than one plus benefits. I dunno.
I always hear business complain that they can't hire anyone but they are so picky. Surely, part-time is better than no help.

? Where did I go on about selfies and social media whoring?

 

[Yuurei]

? Where did I go on about selfies and social media whoring?

You didn't but another person here did and then you mentioned lots of photos and my Ni put them in the same box. Instagram/photos ect = narcissism, soemthing I as an extroverted find ...unappealing.

It was more of a general statement than being really directed AT you but I did quote so I can see why you would think otherwise.

 

[Snow as White]

You didn't but another person here did and then you mentioned lots of photos and my Ni put them in the same box. Instagram/photos ect = narcissism, soemthing I as an extroverted find ...unappealing.

It was more of a general statement than being really directed AT you but I did quote so I can see why you would think otherwise.

Ah no problem! Just wanted clarification.

And agreed. I think my favorite part is when people have a tendency of posing with the same faces so it's just the same photo but with slightly different outfits and sometimes the lighting has shifted.

 

[Virtual ghost]

To be honest I think that the good chunk of stuff in this thread is more related to toxic environment than being So last.