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[Fe] FJs, describe Fe as you understand it

á´…eparted

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I guess I sort of do this but am a lot more self-conscious. I usually don't think in terms of love though. It's usually more like, "that's so cool... I really like how your introverted nature helps you to slow down and think through things before you act hastily. :D" or "I can see why others seem to gravitate towards you... you're really interesting to talk to!" And then they proceed to tell me how it's true. lol.

Yup, that's how I approach it too. It's really rare for someone to trigger a deep visceral response of attachment/attraction. I usually just find it intellectually interesting and stimulating and want to know more.

When someone opens up to me about their troubles and is looking for help/support (assuming I like them to some degree) my response interally is "ooh! new brain to poke around in. this will be stimulating". It's one of the spices of life for me. I just want to know their deeper inner workings because it's interesting. There is never an intentional end or purpose to it beyond finding it interesting, and for the sake of being fair, helping them through problems since it's fairly easy for me to do. Granted, it can be very useful later on as for the information garnered, but that's not the whole purpose, merely a nice parting gift.
 

Tilt

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[MENTION=21859]Rambling[/MENTION]: If I personally tell you, "I love you", I mean it. If I don't like you, I will be more cordial, polite, aloof with you. If I choose to engage you for an extended period of time and the mood seems laidback and comfortable, then I like you. If I genuinely truly like you A LOT, I will tend to open up more and will show some of my vulnerability to you. If it seems sort of canned, I am neutral towards you or I just don't feel close enough to you.
 

SearchingforPeace

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I guess I sort of do this but am a lot more self-conscious. I usually don't think in terms of love though. It's usually more like, "that's so cool... I really like how your introverted nature helps you to slow down and think through things before you act hastily. :D" or "I can see why others seem to gravitate towards you... you're really interesting to talk to!" And then they proceed to tell me how it's true. lol.

I never consciously did this in my life until last year. And I have a few years on you. And I don't verbalize these "love" statements. Hell, no, lol. Though I might tell people nice positive things and such. No, this is what I tell myself as I meet strangers, so I can instantly feel some sort of connection.

Ultimately, I feel we are all connected in some way. In my spiritual growth practice (as opposed to religious, but there is an aspect there as well) I really felt I gained a lot from Buddhist teachings on the interconnectedness of humans and certain mediation practices related to that. Of course, that is a common religious idea, as Christianity has a similar idea. Once we put into practice that we are "loving our neighbor", we can actually love everyone around us and think of them with love. By terming it in our mind as "love", it impacts all of our interactions. It helps us to be kinder and more considerate of others, more forgiving of errors.

So, by actually noticing good traits about others and thinking on them, we can instantly feel connected, without giving anything of ourselves.

I do say nice positive things to others, but the best stuff I keep in my brain. A lot of people don't really feel they deserve some of the compliments I would otherwise give (and some would just be socially awkward like saying "I love you for the nice cleavage your shirt is exposing." :blush:)
 

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[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]: You're such a guy... :rofl1: I will admit I have said some real doozies that sounded like some MASSIVE come ons but somehow made it work. I just chalk it up to my cutesy look w/ a soft-spoken voice which works in my favor sometimes... even though who wouldn't wanna look like a pug? :happy2:
 

SearchingforPeace

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[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]: You're such a guy... :rofl1: I will admit I have said some real doozies that sounded like some MASSIVE come ons but somehow made it work. I just chalk it up to my cutesy look w/ a soft-spoken voice which works in in my favor sometimes... even though wouldn't wanna look like a pug? :happy2:

Yeah, what can I say? I like women......

I have to be very careful in public. Too many times people mistake my friendly nature and such for flirting. One moment I am just having a nice little connected moment and the next thing I am getting invited on a date or back to an apartment, with no effort on my side to push it that direction. It is frustrating at times, because I hate not being as friendly as my natural inclination. But I only have so much willpower, so I keep things as casual as possible with coworkers, just so they don't get the wrong ideas from me. No matter, they still like to touch me in "accidental" but affectionate ways, men and women.

As a guy, I can't pull those womanly tricks you can use to avoid complications......
 

Yama

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[MENTION=21859]Rambling[/MENTION]: If I personally tell you, "I love you", I mean it. If I don't like you, I will be more cordial, polite, aloof with you. If I choose to engage you for an extended period of time and the mood seems laidback and comfortable, then I like you. If I genuinely truly like you A LOT, I will tend to open up more and will show some of my vulnerability to you. If it seems sort of canned, I am neutral towards you or I just don't feel close enough to you.

I can super-relate to this. That polite/aloof thing is how I am with most people, most of the time. I probably look like a completely different person to strangers than I do to my friends.

Actually, me and my ISTJ bff used to work at McDonalds together a few years ago. I worked backbooth a lot (taking people's money & also drive-thru headset at the same time) and he always worked in grill. Sometimes he'd walk past me and after I shut the window and finished taking people's orders he'd make fun of my "polite voice." Because I totally have a special voice I use when being polite to people I'm neutral/don't really care about. More high-pitched and sugary. He'd laugh because I'd take orders with my "nice voice," then turn around and glare at him and suddenly my voice would be way deeper and I'd say something like "Ew why are you here you stupid bitch" (yeah we're totally nice friends to each other). He'd just start laughing at how drastic the change was.

But whatever, I was called the angel of drive thru and everyone loved me :heart:
 

á´…eparted

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This is sort of related to the conversation, but I am curious if others feel the same way (partly cause I think it might be a human thing, not just an FJ thing):

I am SO careful with my words, and HOW I say those words. Like, immensely careful. I go to great lengths to make sure all the words I choose will serve the purpose I am trying to put across, will not give away anything I want to keep to myself, and run very very low risk of misinterpretation from what I intend. I rarely screw this up. I am constantly thinking about how to say something so it does what it needs. It actually takes a ton of effort, but I am so used to exuding that effort I think little of it.
 

Yama

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This is sort of related to the conversation, but I am curious if others feel the same way (partly cause I think it might be a human thing, not just an FJ thing):

I am SO careful with my words, and HOW I say those words. Like, immensely careful. I go to great lengths to make sure all the words I choose will serve the purpose I am trying to put across, will not give away anything I want to keep to myself, and run very very low risk of misinterpretation from what I intend. I rarely screw this up. I am constantly thinking about how to say something so it does what it needs. It actually takes a ton of effort, but I am so used to exuding that effort I think little of it.

Oh I relate to this a TON. Yeah it might just be a human thing, but possibly carries more weight for FJs.

Even more than just words, I'm also careful with my actions, as well.

During those few instances where I am misunderstood, which is not that often, I panic and rush to correct the problem, and afterwards need a ton of reassurance that the other party understands what I actually meant. It's hard for me to focus on anything else until it's fixed.
 

fetus

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hahaha how do you get choleric for fetus? Sanguine sounds much better. Much more Sanguine than phlegmatic because fetus is a lot more flexible, inspiring and less structured/less conservative (and I don't mean conservative in the political sense) and stuff like that.
But yes, enneagram plays a role. If fetus an introvert and we're absolutely sure that fetus is an introvert, then what may be masking that introvertedness is tge extroverted enneagram, E2, and being mainly Sanguine.

21lux's introvertedness comes out strongly because he is a 9 (and phlegmatic). So his introverted function is stronger looking than fetus's.

Edit:: OOHHH Yes, Hard is choleric!! Haha I thought you were calling fetus choleric.

lol you think I'm an extrovert?

Anyways I've never identified with the racing, hyper Sanguine temperament.
 

HongDou

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Yah, fetus seems pure phlegmatic to me
 

SearchingforPeace

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Thanks for this response.

Yes, and Fi can intuit that and interprets you as being fake or inauthentic. Not necessarily consciously but as a subconscious message, which is why I would intuitively distrust (or dismiss as shallow) the externalised pleasantries.

Again, it isn't inauthentic. It just isn't 100%. It just isn't Fi. Exploring that those interior feelings seems odd and awkward and scary. I have been doing a lot recently and it is annoying to say the least....

Now, regarding others, I know what they are feeling no matter their words. It shouts at me. They don't even need to talk. Strong emotions stand out as if the people are wearing a glowing sign. So whenever someone says something that rings false, especially when their words contradict their nature, it is hard for me not to notice.

Thanks, that does help actually. I spend most of my time and interest and energy exploring what is deep down inside, so that's where my primary focus is, and that's what I 'expect' others to consider as most important as well. I find this external-is-the-most-important interpretation quite helpful. But I'm good at looking inside people - so maybe I am looking in the wrong place, so to speak...

Now, I'm an Enneagram 3 in the heart fix, so I have BIG issues with this - I see any dichotomy between outer self and inner self as inauthentic. And I'd distrust that unless I was allowed to see both layers, both inner and outer - see? I mean, if inner is red and outer is blue, I'd intuit that you were purple as a person and be puzzled and dismissive of you as an inauthentic person (or someone who didn't know himself that well) if you insisted that you were completely blue, so to speak.

Again, it is just different. In comparison to Fi, many Fi users are not aware how they impact Fe users, clueless to the damage they cause to others and dismissive of this harm. It isn't that they are bad or stupid or immature. That are just unaware of the extent of Fe world, no matter efforts to understand it. Just like I really struggle to get a handle on Fi world and I know I just see a few layers of it.

I know when others are messed up inside, no matter their exterior, no matter than they have not processed it for themselves yet. It is far easier for me to sense and manage everyone else than myself. And I notice that a lot of Fi users tend not to express those inner feelings, but they really are not hiding from me, at least the ones that are more on the surface. As such, lying is useless around me..as I just know it.

And no one has ever accused me of being anything less than authentic. I come off as the bold confident guy that everyone trusts and looks to as wise and knowledgeable, which can be a problem when I actually admit to having issues and problems because they can't believe it. My parents told me last year that they let me raise myself because I seemed to not need help, even as a every young child. I was just so confident and independent and mature to them, yet I needed parents to actually be there.

I am not saying that I am right, far from it. Time was when I used to consider that everything I did felt deeply inauthentic to me because it didn't match my innards at all (see the different focus of attention) and I have really worked to align myself better and allow the hidden areas to shine through. Even though my reasons for hiding them were very different from your reasons you give here.

Fi needs to align values with actions. Though I have noticed Fi user struggle with contradictory values.....and do what seems to be serious mental gymnastics to make it all fit together. I do also notice that many TJs don't even realize that they are using Fi to decide rather than Te.

Fe may or may not need to do this. I never compromise on my core values. I live my life in a way that has always been compliant with what I hold true. But I will prioritize others or the group more than myself. And choosing to prioritize others is not being inauthentic, but rather it is being authentic to my nature. So, lifting up those around me is more important that emoting the pain I have inside, especially casual acquaintances. They don't deserve my shit. They don't deserve my pain.

But even with those close to me, I try to avoid burdening them. Because I know it will cost them and hurt them. And if they hurt, then I will feel their hurt. So, I see Fi users ranting, unaware that they are, and I just can't be like that. I can't do that to them, especially those that I love. I want to save them pain. And when it feels like it will not help anything by expressing my pain, I just try to take care of it myself (or, in the past, deny it entirely).

I totally agree. What I do is akin to translating myself into the language of my listener. What I don't do is 'exist' within the translation nor do I derive my energy input from their response to me.

I don't know if I exist with the translation, per se. I can easily spend a lot of time by myself and find joy and peace being alone. I know of another ENFJ male about my same age that spends most of his life completely alone, not because he can't handle it, but because he enjoys the space away from others, so he can explore and expand his understanding.

I do feel energize from social interactions. I enjoy a great conversation that lasts for hours, especially if it is very N.

Yes, I get that. I trained to be a teacher and I think in the process I learnt to do a decent emulation of Fe, but it is absolutely not me and I have grown a huge amount since studying cognitive functions has opened my eyes to the methods and realities of Fi.

Fi Te have their own beauty and power and place. It isn't the same as Fe, but that is OK. I find Fi extremely attractive and appealing and pretty much only dated FPs before I married one. Fi users can definitely learn to understand the social dynamics and group interactions, just like Fe users need to turn inwardly to truly grow and develop. The path is opposite, but that differences add spice to life and means of growth.
 

Tilt

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This is sort of related to the conversation, but I am curious if others feel the same way (partly cause I think it might be a human thing, not just an FJ thing):

I am SO careful with my words, and HOW I say those words. Like, immensely careful. I go to great lengths to make sure all the words I choose will serve the purpose I am trying to put across, will not give away anything I want to keep to myself, and run very very low risk of misinterpretation from what I intend. I rarely screw this up. I am constantly thinking about how to say something so it does what it needs. It actually takes a ton of effort, but I am so used to exuding that effort I think little of it.
I am actually very much like that. I have had to learn how to be more like that because I associate with several TJs on a regular basis and it's so easy to get into drawn out discussions over incorrect word choice and semantics... Fe fluffiness confuses the crud out of Te. I actually try to frame my communication so that people learn to explain their thought processes w/o me assuming too much.

"Do you mean X or Y? If you mean X, then yes. If it's Y, can you please explain or give more info?"
 

Tilt

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[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]: are you Phlegmatic/Sanguine? From reading your responses, 9w8/6w5/2w3 (The Good Samaritan) seems to fit you quite well also. People were think primary 2 for you awhile back but I have noticed 9s can seem like 2-like helpers because it brings them inner peace rather than seeking out reciprocated love like a true 2.
 

SearchingforPeace

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[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]: are you Phlegmatic/Sanguine? From reading your responses, 9w8/6w5/2w3 (The Good Samaritan) seems to fit you quite well also. People were think primary 2 for you awhile back but I have noticed 9s can seem like 2-like helpers because it brings them inner peace rather than seeking out reciprocated love like a true 2.

I think so..... I need reciprocated love, but I really am looking for inner peace first and foremost. I feel sort of 2ish at times, 3ish at others, and 4ish at others, so I really don't get my heart fix well. But 9w8 really fits me well.......
 

SearchingforPeace

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I am actually very much like that. I have had to learn how to be more like that because I associate with several TJs on a regular basis and it's so easy to get into drawn out discussions over incorrect word choice and semantics... Fe fluffiness confuses the crud out of Te. I actually try to frame my communication so that people learn to explain their thought processes w/o me assuming too much.

"Do you mean X or Y? If you mean X, then yes. If it's Y, can you please explain or give more info?"

I used to be like this. Unless I was public speaking or in a good discussion with friends, I was extremely careful about my word choice and making sure I everything I was saying was clear and concise.

But I lived in Ti so much, so.......

Anyway, today, I fully accept that I don't need to think things through when I am conversing with others. ENFJs can flow while conversing with others. As such, engaging Ti only slows things down and messes things up. After all, our brains work just fine without consciously thinking about the words we are about to say.

Throughout my life, when I have felt the most natural and most comfortable, I wasn't stopping to think about what I was saying. I just was in the flow. Here is one of the several occasions that stand out:

I was in grad school in one of the few large classes, with a professor whose nickname was "Mean" (I guess long standing before I got to the school, I never thought she was mean). Anyway, the subject was extremely boring and I hadn't prepared that day and was playing on my laptop when she called on me. My friends sitting around me were sure I would be destroyed and started snickering. I calmly picked up the book and glanced over the material and started talking. She and I went back and forth for the next 30 minutes. I didn't remember a single thing I said afterwards, but the professor was more the satisfied by all my answers. After class, one of classmates ran up to me and said, "Wow, that was so amazing? How long had you studied this? I can't believe how amazing your answers were! Where did you find the time to prepare so much, and specifically on such a minor point?" I told her the absolute truth, that I hadn't prepared, I had been playing around, and was just saying whatever came into my mouth, no filter. She refused to accept it. And she kept on me to tell her the truth even months later.

It was the first time I consciously realized I could just speak and be very comfortable. There were many similar things in the decades since then. But I never consciously realized the entire process until recently. The voice in our head is often just our ego construct interfering with our lives. We don't need to use it constantly. I and myself don't need to exist separately, after all.

Now, with my wife the Fi user, I do take more precautions than I do in other settings, to this day. I do understand the Fe can feel oppressive and domineering to Fi and so I try really hard to say things in a way that are very un Fe, or at least minimizing the Fe aspect of things. It is the only way to avoid having her throw up her defenses and be unable to hear me. But a lot of is that we still cannot really talk about things. We love each other, we can talk about other things, just not about us. Se is our common language that works, which is just fine by me.:D
 

Tilt

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I think so..... I need reciprocated love, but I really am looking for inner peace first and foremost. I feel sort of 2ish at times, 3ish at others, and 4ish at others, so I really don't get my heart fix well. But 9w8 really fits me well.......

It's pretty cool to see how differently you, [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], [MENTION=26281]geedoenfj[/MENTION] and I express our Fe. Plus, gender, age, and lifestyle differences probably further affect this. :D
 

thoughtlost

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lol you think I'm an extrovert?

Anyways I've never identified with the racing, hyper Sanguine temperament.

Well when I read the descriptions of it, I think you're in between phlegmatic and sanguine, but I see Sanguine more because you say you have these characterisistics emphasized:



But this is just based on what you've said you had emphasized in yourself. This is not to say you're talkative, but when I read your blog (the one not on the forum), you vibe very Sanguine. You know, fantastical and imaginative and have lots of ideas and don't feel structured.

Phlegmatic vibes strongly ISxJ.



However, you should choose. You would know your energy levels. Are you more retiring and energy-conserving or are you more "follow your passion and do things that you enjoy!!!"
 

fetus

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However, you should choose. You would know your energy levels. Are you more retiring and energy-conserving or are you more "follow your passion and do things that you enjoy!!!"

Well I'm certainly all for following passion and doing pleasant things, but I'm a very low-energy person and I usually prefer to conserve energy rather than spend it, because I have so little of it to begin with. Retiring is something I do and need on a frequent basis. So...
 

á´…eparted

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Well I'm certainly all for following passion and doing pleasant things, but I'm a very low-energy person and I usually prefer to conserve energy rather than spend it, because I have so little of it to begin with. Retiring is something I do and need on a frequent basis. So...

FWIW, I used to think I had very low energy, and thus constantly sought to conserve. My god that is SO wrong. I just burn a shit ton of it constantly. It gives the illusion of low energy. I don't think you're like me in this regard, but it's still possible.
 

thoughtlost

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Well I'm certainly all for following passion and doing pleasant things, but I'm a very low-energy person and I usually prefer to conserve energy rather than spend it, because I have so little of it to begin with. Retiring is something I do and need on a frequent basis. So...

Yeah, it's hard to tell (based on what [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] said because I've seen the same thing in some extroverts where they appear more reserved than outgoing). I know lots of people in my real like who call themselves introverts for that reason even when they are ssssssoooo ExxJs that I don't know how they miss it. Like my sister is squarely ExTJ, but she literally thinks she is ISFJ because she tests it. I have another friend in real life and she thinks she is introverted too just because she isn't talking a million miles per hour and doesn't like being at social events for more than 2 hours, but I am sure she is ExxJ (I am not sure about F or T, though).

I mean, both of them are reserved and don't like to spend all day hanging out with people, but both of them are super structured and wouldn't WANT to spend all day with others because they have more important things for them to do. For them, excess socializing is a waste of time when they could be doing something more productive. But I don't think they realize how strongly Te (in my other friends' case ...it's hard to say if she is Te or Fe) they are.

Even some ESFJs I've come across have a more calm/peaceful energy. So I wouldn't classify those ESFJs as Sanguine.

Honestly, I never 100% believed that being an extrovert meant that you are super talkative and always bouncing off of walls.

But that's just my perspective.
 
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