[Fe] FJs, describe Fe as you understand it

[á´…eparted]

I think this could possibly be explained not only by differences in enneagram, but also temperament (not sure what fetus' is, but you're choleric and I'm phlegmatic), and possibly also an introvert vs extrovert thing. Doesn't make you any less of an FJ though

Correct.

It's really show you how that within groupings, there can still be massive differences. It's kinda amazing how personality groupings work out like that. It also makes the illusion of not explaining much.

 

[Forever]

I've got so much love for others...more than they could ever know...I just overflow.

But when someone actually gets upset, I act like a complete social dork. Expressionless. Awkward. "Oh...that sucks." Inside, I'm crying for them, crying with them, but I'm so uncomfortable.

I offer myself out for anyone to talk with me, because I feel like such a loving person, but it's tiring and I'm so weird with dealing with others' emotions. I know how to deal with mine very well, but I'm like a potato with other people.

In theory, I'm a wonderful person to come to with problems, but in practice, I'm absolutely terrible. Do other IxFJs experience this?

Haha yeah. I always where my "super suave INFJ tactics will kick in" and in those situations they certainly don't. I just listen and nod and go like yeah. I feel you, although if I can pinpoint an experience I will sympathize and my empathy switch is different, with some I am just feeing their pain and I don't know how to respond and afterwards I was like why couldn't you understand your feelings well enough for some super close connection. Often times I will mislabel what I'm feeling and the person no way I'm not feeling like that and I'm like but my feels are now useless. Lol.

 

[Tilt]

+ I have very little love for others. I'm quite cold unfortunately.

+ When someone gets upset, it's quite easy for me to enter a mode and deal really well with it. It's just simply the right thing to do.

+ I do not overtly offer. I simply be who I am, and some take a signal to open up, and I am good with that.

aka. inverse

I relate a lot to this. Unless you are in my circle or the person somehow affects my inner circle, I stay pretty neutral with my emotions. I actually feel like a jerk for not caring more but I usually try to patiently listen to a person if they want to sound board off me. I have to switch from "business mode" to "caring mode" for things to register.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I don't care about everyone, but I connect to almost everyone, whether I care about them or not. And I like pushing positive vibes on every person I encounter. People tell me I am very cheerful and happy person, very optimistic and such, but that is just my outside.

I need to push those positive vibes on others so I can feel peace inside. I need to lift them up to feel OK about myself. And so I do, for me. Everywhere I go I chat up people, smiling, giving them a boost, helping them sort out their ideas, helping them to reframe things.

I get the warmth I push on them reflected on me, making me feel good inside.

Someone needs to be comforted, no problem. They need help processing, no problem. They just need love and compassion and empathy, no problem. It all feels like fuel to my soul, banishing the darkness inside.

I really like focusing externally. Such a more peaceful realm, so much easier....

 

[fetus]

I think this could possibly be explained not only by differences in enneagram, but also temperament (not sure what fetus' is, but you're choleric and I'm phlegmatic), and possibly also an introvert vs extrovert thing. Doesn't make you any less of an FJ though

I think I'm Phlegmatic-Sanguine.

 

[thoughtlost]

I think I'm Phlegmatic-Sanguine.

hahaha how do you get choleric for fetus? Sanguine sounds much better. Much more Sanguine than phlegmatic because fetus is a lot more flexible, inspiring and less structured/less conservative (and I don't mean conservative in the political sense) and stuff like that.
But yes, enneagram plays a role. If fetus an introvert and we're absolutely sure that fetus is an introvert, then what may be masking that introvertedness is tge extroverted enneagram, E2, and being mainly Sanguine.

21lux's introvertedness comes out strongly because he is a 9 (and phlegmatic). So his introverted function is stronger looking than fetus's.

Edit:: OOHHH Yes, Hard is choleric!! Haha I thought you were calling fetus choleric.

 

[Tilt]

I am melancholic/phlegmatic, true neutral, 3w4/5w6/9w8 sp/sx if that gives any insight into how I experience Fe.

 

[GIjade]

Familiarizing yourself with social norms, taking notes on what the people do around you generally. What are the communities' traditions, rites, dress, values, etc.? It takes some observing and if you can, asking around.

Practice being polite? Always say what your parents (might've-Idk them) taught you. "Thank you" "You're welcome" "Smile"
Know when to stop talking, when to start, etc. there's a lot of things.

tl;dr Be nice and considerate and don't ignore people.

This is just "social skills" stuff. Not everyone has them and some people just don't want them. Very pretentious.

 

[Forever]

I wouldn't be the one talking. Putting you on ignore because I don't like you and you usually just criticize others than help the forum. Don't want to read your posts anymore. Have fun!

 

[Tilt]

I need to push those positive vibes on others so I can feel peace inside. I need to lift them up to feel OK about myself. And so I do, for me. Everywhere I go I chat up people, smiling, giving them a boost, helping them sort out their ideas, helping them to reframe things.

I get the warmth I push on them reflected on me, making me feel good inside.

Someone needs to be comforted, no problem. They need help processing, no problem. They just need love and compassion and empathy, no problem. It all feels like fuel to my soul, banishing the darkness inside.

I really like focusing externally. Such a more peaceful realm, so much easier....

I can relate to this with having 9w8 in my tritype but I would have a hard time doing this with most people I meet. Part of the issue is I hate revealing too much of myself to people so I tend to avoid situations where they try to connect with me and expect me to reciprocate... until I feel them out first. When I get a consistently good vibe from someone, then I will be there and give them emotional support and mental energy to make them feel OK and boost their ego.. I pretty much try to emphasize what make them uniquely special in my eyes... and it makes me feel good when their face lights up.

 

[Rambling]

I don't care about everyone, but I connect to almost everyone, whether I care about them or not. And I like pushing positive vibes on every person I encounter. People tell me I am very cheerful and happy person, very optimistic and such, but that is just my outside.

I need to push those positive vibes on others so I can feel peace inside. I need to lift them up to feel OK about myself. And so I do, for me. Everywhere I go I chat up people, smiling, giving them a boost, helping them sort out their ideas, helping them to reframe things.

I get the warmth I push on them reflected on me, making me feel good inside.

Someone needs to be comforted, no problem. They need help processing, no problem. They just need love and compassion and empathy, no problem. It all feels like fuel to my soul, banishing the darkness inside.

I really like focusing externally. Such a more peaceful realm, so much easier....

Accurate to my experience of Fe people. But what makes me get stuck, Searcheep, is the question of how the dickens *I* find out how *you* are actually feeling?

I mean, I feel good, and I know that an Fe user wants to SEE me feeling good, so I can do that, with a bit of effort, so now we both know that I feel good and you can feel good about that, you're a success...but I have to INTUIT that last bit, I never get to actually SEE it. It's frustrating for me. And for any detailed emotional sharing beyond the generalised 'good' of my example, you guys are nearly impossible to read.

(I am just curious...)

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I can relate to this with having 9w8 in my tritype but I would have a hard time doing this with most people I meet. Part of the issue is I hate revealing too much of myself to people so I tend to avoid situations where they try to connect with me and expect me to reciprocate... until I feel them out first. When I get a consistently good vibe from someone, then I will be there and give them emotional support and mental energy to make them feel OK and boost their ego.. I pretty much try to emphasize what make them uniquely special in my eyes... and it makes me feel good when their face lights up.

I don't need to reveal much to connect to casual acquaintances or everyday people. A lot of times, it is based upon them feeling connected to me. I do this just naturally.

A stopped by a 7-11 a few weeks ago, and one of the cashiers was moving to the music behind the counter. I chatted him up about it. He said he couldn't dance. I said, hey, I just saw you, so show me your moves. I know you got them. He started dancing, and we all started laughing and having fun. He was suddenly very happy and energetic and he thanked me for talking with him about it. I could tell he had been self-conscious in the past regarding dancing, that he had been bothered it, yet he started dancing at work in front of me, a perfect stranger, and suddenly was much happier about life.

A do things like that everyday, and people thank me for helping them out. It does make the world a better place. People seek me out to help them.

I always did this unconsciously. Last year, I encountered a way to connect more easily to others. The idea is simple: for everyone you meet, pick out one trait about that person and say to yourself in your mind, "I love you, for X. Thank you." It works for everyone. "I love you for wearing those crazy pants today." "I love you for all the time you spent doing your hair today." "I love you for the way you helped out John with that problem." "I love you for wearing those yoga pants that really show off your ass" (Yep, I like that one, can't lie).

We are already to connected with Fe. This is merely acknowledging the existing connection and accessing love. It is sort of like the loving kindness meditation, which serves a similar purpose.

Now, when I was younger, all my connections were one-sided. I was there for my friends, I showed affection to my girlfriends, but no one ever got anything from me, none of my worries, cares, concerns, issues, nothing. Even sitting around with my friends talking usually ended up with me trying to help them or talking about meaningless shit. Adults came up to me and asked for my advice, which is really weird looking back, that a 45 year old successful man was asking me, a 15 year boy, advice on life, career, etc. Oh, well. I remember one personal crisis where I tried to talk to my parents and they didn't listen, so I never gave anything to anyone. I spent my entire life like that, even with my wife, because she has never really been able to handle me opening up (in large part because of her own problems she has avoided.) It was only reading Brene Brown that got me to see the need to be open and vulnerable for me to be happy inside.

So, again, it takes me no effort to connect to others. I have numerous times had people say I understand them better than the know themselves, that I can express their thoughts and feelings better than they could ever articulate. I can place myself in a position to deeply feel their concerns and issues. And give nothing of myself.

But when I started opening up last year to others, I soon developed much deeper and profound connections. I am much closer to my siblings today than ever before in my wife, because I opened up to them for the first time. I am closer to friends because I let them comfort me and hear me. I don't fear vulnerability. People can know I fuck up, a bunch, no matter what they think about me. They can know that I am struggling inside no matter the exterior presentation. Life is better as I accept the parts of me I rejected for decades and care for myself just a little.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Accurate to my experience of Fe people. But what makes me get stuck, Searcheep, is the question of how the dickens *I* find out how *you* are actually feeling?

If I say, "I love you", I mean it. If I say, "You are cool", I mean it. If I say "I feel great", I mean it...... But it might only be half the story, as I can be happy on the outside and have deep pain and anguish on the inside....

I mean, I feel good, and I know that an Fe user wants to SEE me feeling good, so I can do that, with a bit of effort, so now we both know that I feel good and you can feel good about that, you're a success...but I have to INTUIT that last bit, I never get to actually SEE it. It's frustrating for me. And for any detailed emotional sharing beyond the generalised 'good' of my example, you guys are nearly impossible to read.

(I am just curious...)

The outside presentation is authentic, even if we are shit on the inside. How can this be true? Because Fe primarily focuses outside and often that is how we know what we are feeling. So, what you see is what you get. If I look happy and friendly on the outside, I am not being artificial or inauthentic. I am just being me, even if it is only part of me.

But my deep inner feelings? Good luck getting at what I don't even know myself. Now, there are layers upon layers until you get near those. Only the closest of people get there, but hey, don't worry.

Fe is best expressed in communication, especially verbal, IMO. And yes, we tailor the message for the audience, but I don't change my values and principles for the audience.

Just be aware that Fe is not as confident as it might appear at first glance. Just because our words are forceful and seem to carry weight and authority, we are often full of shit.....Not quite the Jedi mind trick, but it can seem that way. It can get dangerous, especially for younger folks. In high school, I converted one of my classmates, who was a John Birch ultraconservative, into a full on Communist (which he is to this day), just for fun. I did feel that his ultraconservative stuff was way over the top. A few other experiences like this really let me see how easy I can persuade others....

 

[á´…eparted]

Just be aware that Fe is not as confident as it might appear at first glance. Just because our words are forceful and seem to carry weight and authority, we are often full of shit...

Mmm no this isn't true for all Fe users. If I say something like this, I ALWAYS make sure it is backed up some how. Otherwise I won't say anything at all. Things must be justified an all that. I see the same thing in a number of Fe-dom and Fe-aux friends that I have, but not all. This actually might not all be connected well to type, but I am not sure.

I don't agree with all of it, but the rest of your post is more or less fine.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Mmm no this isn't true for all Fe users. If I say something like this, I ALWAYS make sure it is backed up some how. Otherwise I won't say anything at all. Things must be justified an all that. I see the same thing in a number of Fe-dom and Fe-aux friends that I have, but not all. This actually might not all be connected well to type, but I am not sure.

I don't agree with all of it, but the rest of your post is more or less fine.

I believe everything I say and believe it is correct. I am willing to listen to counter arguments. I could change my mind.

But I have found others believe me more than is warranted. I persuade others pretty easily, because they are always inclined to believe me.

So, this will result in a few people getting very irritated because they can't argue with me, but find no way to actually dispute me, and so feel forced to agree.

So, for me, I really appreciate those people who actually can hold their own. I don't lose arguments often, even when logic and facts are against me, because I am so damn believeable and trustworthy.

So when I said Fe isn't as confident as it might sound, I intended to let others know they can disagree. They are not required to agree and comply no matter what it sounds.....

 

[geedoenfj]

I'm also confused like you and want a good explanation, but if I want to put in one sentence primarily I would say "seeking harmony with my surroundings"
I'll keep reading the comments to learn more, many of them seem interesting..

 

[Rambling]

If I say, "I love you", I mean it. If I say, "You are cool", I mean it. If I say "I feel great", I mean it...... But it might only be half the story, as I can be happy on the outside and have deep pain and anguish on the inside....

Yes, and Fi can intuit that and interprets you as being fake or inauthentic. Not necessarily consciously but as a subconscious message, which is why I would intuitively distrust (or dismiss as shallow) the externalised pleasantries.

The outside presentation is authentic, even if we are shit on the inside. How can this be true? Because Fe primarily focuses outside and often that is how we know what we are feeling. So, what you see is what you get. If I look happy and friendly on the outside, I am not being artificial or inauthentic. I am just being me, even if it is only part of me.

Thanks, that does help actually. I spend most of my time and interest and energy exploring what is deep down inside, so that's where my primary focus is, and that's what I 'expect' others to consider as most important as well. I find this external-is-the-most-important interpretation quite helpful. But I'm good at looking inside people - so maybe I am looking in the wrong place, so to speak...

But my deep inner feelings? Good luck getting at what I don't even know myself. Now, there are layers upon layers until you get near those. Only the closest of people get there, but hey, don't worry.

Now, I'm an Enneagram 3 in the heart fix, so I have BIG issues with this - I see any dichotomy between outer self and inner self as inauthentic. And I'd distrust that unless I was allowed to see both layers, both inner and outer - see? I mean, if inner is red and outer is blue, I'd intuit that you were purple as a person and be puzzled and dismissive of you as an inauthentic person (or someone who didn't know himself that well) if you insisted that you were completely blue, so to speak.

I am not saying that I am right, far from it. Time was when I used to consider that everything I did felt deeply inauthentic to me because it didn't match my innards at all (see the different focus of attention) and I have really worked to align myself better and allow the hidden areas to shine through. Even though my reasons for hiding them were very different from your reasons you give here.

Fe is best expressed in communication, especially verbal, IMO. And yes, we tailor the message for the audience, but I don't change my values and principles for the audience.

I totally agree. What I do is akin to translating myself into the language of my listener. What I don't do is 'exist' within the translation nor do I derive my energy input from their response to me.

Just be aware that Fe is not as confident as it might appear at first glance. Just because our words are forceful and seem to carry weight and authority, we are often full of shit.....Not quite the Jedi mind trick, but it can seem that way. It can get dangerous, especially for younger folks. In high school, I converted one of my classmates, who was a John Birch ultraconservative, into a full on Communist (which he is to this day), just for fun. I did feel that his ultraconservative stuff was way over the top. A few other experiences like this really let me see how easy I can persuade others....

Yes, I get that. I trained to be a teacher and I think in the process I learnt to do a decent emulation of Fe, but it is absolutely not me and I have grown a huge amount since studying cognitive functions has opened my eyes to the methods and realities of Fi.

 

[Tilt]

Mmm no this isn't true for all Fe users. If I say something like this, I ALWAYS make sure it is backed up some how. Otherwise I won't say anything at all. Things must be justified an all that. I see the same thing in a number of Fe-dom and Fe-aux friends that I have, but not all. This actually might not all be connected well to type, but I am not sure.

I don't agree with all of it, but the rest of your post is more or less fine.

Agree with this. My ENFJ business partner loves me and hates me for this one trait... I won't BS people with words to placate them into a false sense of security and comfort. I am much more likely to admit that I just don't know and risk looking dense than potentially causing drama in the long run... this is where effective diplomacy comes into play.

 

[á´…eparted]

Agree with this. My ENFJ business partner loves me and hates me for this one trait... I won't BS people with words to placate them into a false sense of security and comfort. I am much more likely to admit that I just don't know and risk looking dense than potentially causing drama in the long run... this is where effective diplomacy comes into play.

Exactly. This is one of the sides that Fe can take. It's really only seen in Fe-doms, but something like it can show up with Fe-aux. One needs to remember that Fe is a rational function that focuses on the subjective, and seeks to fit it to objectivity to the best of its ability. If you bs and placate people... well you can't really do that fitting anymore. At least, with this sort of Fe approach. My research adviser is an ENFJ 3w2, and he is the same as I am with this.

 

[Tilt]

I don't need to reveal much to connect to casual acquaintances or everyday people. A lot of times, it is based upon them feeling connected to me. I do this just naturally.

A stopped by a 7-11 a few weeks ago, and one of the cashiers was moving to the music behind the counter. I chatted him up about it. He said he couldn't dance. I said, hey, I just saw you, so show me your moves. I know you got them. He started dancing, and we all started laughing and having fun. He was suddenly very happy and energetic and he thanked me for talking with him about it. I could tell he had been self-conscious in the past regarding dancing, that he had been bothered it, yet he started dancing at work in front of me, a perfect stranger, and suddenly was much happier about life.

A do things like that everyday, and people thank me for helping them out. It does make the world a better place. People seek me out to help them.

I always did this unconsciously. Last year, I encountered a way to connect more easily to others. The idea is simple: for everyone you meet, pick out one trait about that person and say to yourself in your mind, "I love you, for X. Thank you." It works for everyone. "I love you for wearing those crazy pants today." "I love you for all the time you spent doing your hair today." "I love you for the way you helped out John with that problem." "I love you for wearing those yoga pants that really show off your ass" (Yep, I like that one, can't lie).

We are already to connected with Fe. This is merely acknowledging the existing connection and accessing love. It is sort of like the loving kindness meditation, which serves a similar purpose.

Now, when I was younger, all my connections were one-sided. I was there for my friends, I showed affection to my girlfriends, but no one ever got anything from me, none of my worries, cares, concerns, issues, nothing. Even sitting around with my friends talking usually ended up with me trying to help them or talking about meaningless shit. Adults came up to me and asked for my advice, which is really weird looking back, that a 45 year old successful man was asking me, a 15 year boy, advice on life, career, etc. Oh, well. I remember one personal crisis where I tried to talk to my parents and they didn't listen, so I never gave anything to anyone. I spent my entire life like that, even with my wife, because she has never really been able to handle me opening up (in large part because of her own problems she has avoided.) It was only reading Brene Brown that got me to see the need to be open and vulnerable for me to be happy inside.

So, again, it takes me no effort to connect to others. I have numerous times had people say I understand them better than the know themselves, that I can express their thoughts and feelings better than they could ever articulate. I can place myself in a position to deeply feel their concerns and issues. And give nothing of myself.

But when I started opening up last year to others, I soon developed much deeper and profound connections. I am much closer to my siblings today than ever before in my wife, because I opened up to them for the first time. I am closer to friends because I let them comfort me and hear me. I don't fear vulnerability. People can know I fuck up, a bunch, no matter what they think about me. They can know that I am struggling inside no matter the exterior presentation. Life is better as I accept the parts of me I rejected for decades and care for myself just a little.

I guess I sort of do this but am a lot more self-conscious. I usually don't think in terms of love though. It's usually more like, "that's so cool... I really like how your introverted nature helps you to slow down and think through things before you act hastily. " or "I can see why others seem to gravitate towards you... you're really interesting to talk to!" And then they proceed to tell me how it's true. lol.