Stars Wars the feminist awakens

[Kullervo]

Because male leads are the normality, especially with action films and some people really find it hard to deal with a changing world.

Do you ever stop to question whether change is always good?

If a large corporation brought up all the land around your town and decided to build large, stinking factories, ruining your view and polluting the countryside, I am sure that you would be pretty pissed off. But hey, hope and change! Sounds great, even if it kills people.

 

[jixmixfix]

Do you ever stop to question whether change is always good?

If a large corporation brought up all the land around your town and decided to build large, stinking factories, ruining your view and polluting the countryside, I am sure that you would be pretty pissed off. But hey, hope and change! Sounds great, even if it kills people.

it's that hipster mentality just trying to be different for the sake of being different.

 

[Luke O]

I didn't think it was a feminist movie, the other female characters (Leia, Captain Phasma and Maz Kanata) have much more minor roles. Of the main guys, you have Finn, Poe, Han, Chewbacca, Kylo Ren and General ginger guy. All of the other stormtroopers are male apart from Phasma. The lightsaber is an analogy for the penis, and Finn is happy to wield it while Rey doesn't want to have it. Basically it's still a sausagefest.

 

[jixmixfix]

I didn't think it was a feminist movie, the other female characters (Leia, Captain Phasma and Maz Kanata) have much more minor roles. Of the main guys, you have Finn, Poe, Han, Chewbacca, Kylo Ren and General ginger guy. All of the other stormtroopers are male apart from Phasma. The lightsaber is an analogy for the penis, and Finn is happy to wield it while Rey doesn't want to have it. Basically it's still a sausagefest.

da fuck did I just read here.

 

[jixmixfix]

There's probably going to be some LGBT inclusion in the next film. Ray is going to be a lesbian and chubacka is going to go trans, take estrogen pills and grow tits.because why the fuck not?

 

[Luke O]

Do you ever stop to question whether change is always good?

If a large corporation brought up all the land around your town and decided to build large, stinking factories, ruining your view and polluting the countryside, I am sure that you would be pretty pissed off. But hey, hope and change! Sounds great, even if it kills people.

Hooray for the strawman argument.

 

[Kullervo]

Hooray for the strawman argument.

You just can't see the bigger picture here. The same arguments people like you use to argue in favour of "change", you summarily dismiss in cases where it does not resonate with your ideology (hence the corporation/environment analogy).

Experience will be the best teacher.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Haven't seen the movie.

But when there are complaints about female leads introduced into traditionally male-led action series, it's probably not misogyny. It's probably just a wish that a franchise stay true to its roots and not change to suit changing public sentiment.

There are plenty of action franchises with strong female leads: Alien, Lara Croft, Resident Evil, Hunger Games, etc. They attract a male audience, and everyone would probably howl with displeasure if male leads supplanted the female leads in those movies. It changes the franchise and uproots it.

Same with talk of black or female 007 movies. It uproots the franchise from its historical origins. To blame complaints on racism and misogyny misses the point. It's just that the Bond franchise is built around certain traditions and ideas. To uproot all that is problematic.

Personally, I don't give a shit. Make James Bond a mentally-challenged little person, for all I care. I don't even watch movies these days. I'm just saying: For most people I think it's really just a question of continuity.

To sum up: Female leads in action movies are fine if the franchise started with a female lead. (Personally, I really enjoyed the Resident Evil series as a guilty pleasure.) But taking a traditionally male-led franchise and injecting female leads ruins continuity. It also smacks of bending to a feminist Hollywood agenda, for those who want to push the political aspect. But personally I think it's just a question of continuity for most people.

Just my bored two cents.

 

[Ursa]

Do you ever stop to question whether change is always good?

If a large corporation brought up all the land around your town and decided to build large, stinking factories, ruining your view and polluting the countryside, I am sure that you would be pretty pissed off. But hey, hope and change! Sounds great, even if it kills people.

No one here is arguing in favor of change for the sake of change because that is patently silly. It's the principles behind the change that matter; that is the larger picture here.

How is advocating race and gender equality in our entertainment analogous to advocating environmental pollution? There are different reasons behind those changes, respectively, so I fail to see why that example is appropriate.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

You aren't nearly as open-minded as you think you are. I like pointing that out.

Hah! I'm sure you do.

But how do you think you know that? I expected a response like this. I have observed a tendency in you. When others disagree with you, you assume they have not given thought to the topic that you disagree on. In this instance, you seem to be presuming I haven't actually thought about why something like racism, xenophobia, or misogyny would be bad. You always act like you are introducing people to ideas.

 

[Kullervo]

No one here is arguing in favor of change for the sake of change because that is patently silly. It's the principles behind the change that matter; that is the larger picture here.

How is advocating race and gender equality in our entertainment analogous to advocating environmental pollution? There are different reasons behind those changes, respectively, so I fail to see why that example is appropriate.

The proponents of both paint opponents as narrow-minded, phobic, stuck in their ways and ignorant of what the change can offer, and therefore unqualified to venture an opinion. I could equally argue that the change is driven by a selfish agenda and special interests.

And for the record, there are many undesirable consequences of race and gender "equality". While this thread is not about them, I have elaborated on this elsewhere around the forum.

 

[Ursa]

The proponents of both paint opponents as narrow-minded, phobic, stuck in their ways and ignorant of what the change can offer, and therefore unqualified to venture an opinion. I could equally argue that the change is driven by a selfish agenda and special interests.

And for the record, there are many undesirable consequences of race and gender "equality". While this thread is not about them, I have elaborated on this elsewhere around the forum.

Both sides believe they are right? Therefore gender equality and environmental pollution are the same? Weak analogy, man.

 

[Kullervo]

OK it looks like you guys are determined to derail this thread. Very well then!

Both sides believe they are right? Therefore gender equality and environmental pollution are the same? Weak analogy, man.

Have you ever thought to Google the literal meaning of equality? I have.

Synonyms
Examples
Word Origin

noun, plural equalities.
1.
the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability:
2.
uniform character, as of motion or surface.
3.
Mathematics. a statement that two quantities are equal; equation.

You are right, it is a poor analogy, but that is because gender and racial equality are physically impossible. This doesn't appear to be stopping the State from trying though, even if it involves coercion.

 

[Luke O]

You just can't see the bigger picture here. The same arguments people like you use to argue in favour of "change", you summarily dismiss in cases where it does not resonate with your ideology (hence the corporation/environment analogy).

Experience will be the best teacher.

People like me? Who are you banding me with exactly?

 

[Masokissed]

There's probably going to be some LGBT inclusion in the next film. Ray is going to be a lesbian and chubacka is going to go trans, take estrogen pills and grow tits.because why the fuck not?

And who the fuck are "Ray" and "chubacka". I hope there's some spelling inclusion in your next post.

I'm sure in the highly developed Star Wars universe changing sexes is as simple as just one pill and no surgery, and I'm sure everyone is fully accepting of it. When we reach that day in our universe, I'm gladly swapping around your medicine and giving you a pill so your dick will fall off and you'll grow some tits. Because really, you should try stepping in someone else's shoes.

 

[chubber]

What ticks me off is that she "immediately" got "the force" and became a pro, there were no gradual improvements and training. Oh right, girls can do it better. Thanks.

 

[indra]

OK it looks like you guys are determined to derail this thread.

This thread was a train wreck before it left the station.

 

[five sounds]

You just can't see the bigger picture here. The same arguments people like you use to argue in favour of "change", you summarily dismiss in cases where it does not resonate with your ideology (hence the corporation/environment analogy).

Experience will be the best teacher.

Nobody has to be in favor of *waggy finger quotes* "change". Change is what life does. Open your eyes bro. I bet you're a grammar prescriptionist too.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Just adding to what I said earlier.

[...snipped] To sum up: Female leads in action movies are fine if the franchise started with a female lead. (Personally, I really enjoyed the Resident Evil series as a guilty pleasure.) But taking a traditionally male-led franchise and injecting female leads ruins continuity. It also smacks of bending to a feminist Hollywood agenda, for those who want to push the political aspect. But personally I think it's just a question of continuity for most people.

By the way, I'm guessing there probably wasn't any Hollywood feminist agenda, per se, in the reworking of Fury Road and The Force Awakens in particular.

Prior to Fury Road in 2015, the Mad Max franchise only consisted of three films, and it died a rather freakish death with the final film (Thunderdome) in 1985 and was largely forgotten for 30 years. In taking a fresh look at at the franchise for purposes of making Fury Road, they were probably looking at ways to jump-start the franchise and take it new places, especially given that they couldn't use Gibson in his signature role. The lead faces were going to be new anyway; might as well try to broaden appeal by bringing in Charlize Theron. (Actually they tried to do something similar in Thunderdome in 1985 by bringing in Tina Turner in a supporting role.)

The same with Star Wars, I expect. The franchise had been wildly successful, but the last films got mixed reviews from loyal fans. Disney acquired the franchise after a hiatus of seven years and I expect they were looking at ways to reboot the franchise and appeal to a broader audience (rather than trying to impose a political agenda on an old geek franchise). Disney is liberal; the company was an early supporter of gay rights. But ultimately it also has to be profitable.

To sum up: Both franchises were moribund and in new hands: They were ripe for a re-boot and a search for new audiences and fresh appeal. It was natural that their old formulas got tweaked a bit to take them into the modern age. Naturally, old diehard fans would end up bitching about continuity issues. But at the same time, the companies producing the films have to look at profitability. With an old moribund franchise, that usually means taking the franchise in new directions.

They say everything's political. But not always.

[ETA:] Oh, and another film in the Resident Evil franchise is scheduled to come out in 2017. Maybe this one will actually break the 50% mark on RottenTomatoes.com

 

[jixmixfix]

And who the fuck are "Ray" and "chubacka". I hope there's some spelling inclusion in your next post.

I'm sure in the highly developed Star Wars universe changing sexes is as simple as just one pill and no surgery, and I'm sure everyone is fully accepting of it. When we reach that day in our universe, I'm gladly swapping around your medicine and giving you a pill so your dick will fall off and you'll grow some tits. Because really, you should try stepping in someone else's shoes.

If I had tits I would play with them everyday and get guys to buy me a new pair of shoes.