Now that Lent is over and my self-imposed ban has expired... I can finally answer all these questions!
But I thought you were a food enthusiast!
Hey now! To be fair, I think it's a regional thing; if you gave me a container of orange marmalade, I wouldn't know what to do with it. I don't see it in restaurants, I don't know anyone who uses it or cooks with it. But give it to me in something you made and I'll definitely eat it.
Wow! Let me just say: "Wow! Who would've thought ESTJs are so popular."
Of course we are! That's why the xNxPs think we control the world.
Well, here is mine: The ESTJs I know are very reluctant to try new things and I think they feel kind of lost and frustrated with such scenarios. But this is boring to me and boring=death.
What are the best ways to manipulate an ESTJ into trying new things?
Hmm.
The ESTJs you know may be less adventurous than me, but these are the only reasons why I wouldn't want to do something new:
1) It's physically or mentally dangerous, or similar to things that I consider physically or mentally dangerous;
2) It could embarrass me around other people;
3) I had my heart set on doing something else at whatever time you suggested, or I was mentally prepared for a different activity and unable to change mindsets so quickly; or
4) It's similar to something I tried already and didn't like.
So if the ESTJs you know are similar, you can figure out which of those reasons are standing in the way (which would probably be fairly easy since ESTJs are so honest; asking a stubborn INFJ or INTJ would get you nowhere!), and you can convince them that they should do it anyway; e.g. "If you have your heart set on doing something else tomorrow, we can try next Wednesday" or "I've done it before and it isn't dangerous" or "It might be scary at first but you get good at it really quickly and you'll leave thinking it's one of the coolest things you've ever done".
I would specifically like to clarify: "new" things includes illegal/immoral behavior. I believe this to be a relevant piece of information you need when answering the question.
It's only relevant information if I have additional information. Even the most morally upright ESTJs can change their tune if you give them a good enough reason to break the law -- and/or if you swear to them that they won't get caught and the pros will outweigh the cons.
Just how illegal/immoral are you talking?
Amazing! You sound so Fe (in a very "straight-to-point" / "get-things-done" kind of way).
Did you learn this from your mom? Also, is "being-Fe" an obligation that needs to be fulfilled?
Wow, I'm impressed! Yeah, that's exactly where I learned it, and that's exactly why I do it. Obviously it isn't actually Fe; it's enthusiastic Ne with Fi civility and 1w2 dutiful helpfulness, combined to make something similar to, but inferior to, Fe. I wish I were better at it, because sometimes I try desperately to muster up that Fe-style sympathetic response and I just sound awkward instead.
I should also add that I'm naturally a positive, look-on-the-bright-side person. It's one of my standard coping mechanisms in every aspect of life -- acknowledging the bad things, but focusing on the good things, and generally thinking that the good things balance out the bad. So my attitude gives me an advantage in mimicking Fe, because even if I can't Fe-style comfort people, I can say "hey, look on the bright side" about almost everything, which, even when it doesn't help, is entertaining and good for easing tension
Hello Miss EJCC!
I recently found out my (fantastically awesome!) estj boss was diagnosed with Lupus. Our worksplace is really awesome and supportive to her, but are there things that I could do to be supportive for her as well on an individual level?
Honestly, being there for her is probably the absolute best thing you could do, i.e. being consistent, showing that you remember (and care about) what's going on in her life, and generally being a good friend. But I doubt that I need to tell you any of that
because you're good at those things already, I think.
Oops. I feel bad now for provoking you to break it. You've done very well so far though.
Don't answer me until after Lent.
Mission accomplished! Now I can answer you
But what about when you're confused whether you're in the right or wrong? - times when things aren't so clear to you and you begin to doubt yourself.
Perhaps someone treats you in a certain way and it seems like maybe it fits in a pattern (which may be imagined or real) of how some other people have treated you in the past; and this then makes you wonder if you are, in fact, the cause of the problem.
Yeah, that definitely does happen, and the thought process is exactly the same. Generally, because I hate unresolved things and I love having answers, I'll think about it and introspect like crazy until I can decide with a fair degree of certainty whether I was in the right, or wrong -- or if neither, what I can do better next time, and what I should do in the meantime. In other words... diagnosis, then treatment regimen.
Also -- if I can't figure it out myself, then I find a close friend or family member to talk it out with.
Do you also think that you might sometimes blame yourself unfairly because your standards for your own behaviour are too high? Do you ever form expectations for yourself that relate to things that are actually beyond you control? Or would you have difficulty acknowledging that even if you did?
Yeah, I definitely recognize that I do that, i.e. the blaming you mention in the first question. I have VERY high standards for myself, and for the most part there's nothing I can do about it, because I have a hard time convincing myself that I can't meet those standards all the time.
As for the second and third questions... the third question makes me second-guess myself a little, but I'm honestly pretty sure that my answer to the second question is no. Because my standards for things are so incredibly high, and because I'm so prone towards self-blame (and sometimes beating myself up to the point of self-loathing, if I'm in a particularly dark and 4-ish and INFP-ish mood), I seize every opportunity I can to not blame myself for things. Deep down, I think, I have a need to ease the pressure I put on myself; one way that need manifests itself is the way I guard what little free time I have with my life, because otherwise I would overschedule myself to the point of driving myself crazy -- and I think another way it manifests is by going: "Could I have done anything differently? No! So is it my fault? NO! So people are NOT justified in being mad at me and I am officially off the hook!! Whew! Yes!!"
Interesting. So would you say, even if it sounds like you are venting about a situation (say, about someone that irritates you) you are really just trying to invite others to help figure out what is going on and why?
Generally, yeah. And if I'm not, I try to make that as clear as I can, i.e. making qualifiers like "It's pretty much solved now, i.e. there isn't much I can do about it, but it was really annoying at the time!" Some of this is just my personality (i.e. that I don't complain much), and some of it comes from having one parent (INFJ) who complains constantly and one parent (INTP) who is guaranteed to try and fix your problem if you don't make it clear to him that you're venting. Watching that dynamic play out with my parents pretty much taught me exactly what to do -- even though I find myself slipping into trying to solve the problems of people who are venting, on a regular basis.
He’s not bad or annoying at all, no, just has his preferences. He has a hard time relating to and understanding Ns, and he sees them as out of touch with reality, not practical, and the purveyors of chaos and off-the-wall ideas and notions. He says he has more respect for NJs because at least they have the decency to keep their N largely to themselves, can blend in with more normal people, and keep a more orderly environment.
(Although he seems to get along fine with NFJs, NTJs don't seem to get along with him. At all.)
This is interesting. I understand the NTJ conflict; depending on the NTJ and the STJ, there's definitely potential for personality clashes there! Was your ESTJ raised around a lot of Sensors and not a lot of Intuitors? His POV makes a lot of sense if he was either raised around Sensors or raised around particularly dreamy/flighty Intuitors that annoyed him personally.
Yes. He knows we are the ones who know he’s secretly really soft and snuggly on the inside.
Exactly.
I wouldn’t characterize Ps as passive, but I think they have more flexibility, and thus will often flex to fit the J, especially when the J has very strong notions and the P is an FP, which would be naturally more concerned with pleasing the other. Also, with the exception of STPs, all other Ps are role-informers under Keirsey’s model, which I think has some usefulness. Role-informers often prefer to give feedback rather than directives - feedback is not passivity. I think most Ps make great leaders, and many don’t mind assuming that role, but will often defer to a “natural leader†personality as long as they find the “leader†acceptable/agreeable, only balking or stepping in if it becomes disagreeable to them for some reason.
Oh ok -- yeah, you're right. This is definitely true!
Yes, he loves this. He and his ESFP cousin for example, outright talk over each other constantly. It will go on and on, with neither one breaking and both of them literally talking at the same time, until someone breaks and relents and lets the other talk without the other talking over them (only to interrupt very soon after, of course.) She is also a very intense personality, so he sees it as a fun game to see if he can out-talk her and make her relent. Both of them are of the variety that a lot of people have trouble handling them in interactions.
This sounds like me and my NT friends, actually! When my INTP dad and I get into heated discussions, it can worry the Feelers in the vicinity.
ESTJ at least to me seems like a very powerful personality, the big boss nobody wants to mess with!
That's probably true.
I wouldn't describe myself this way, but I think sometimes I do come across like that; I think ENTJs and ESTJs (and ESTPs?) are probably the types that come across as the most powerful, and I attribute that to the absolute confidence and certainty that all three types exude -- and their intense, passionate reactions to injustice and Things Done Wrong.
If these kinds of questions are allowed, what is your opinion on this heart-breaking video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDbuZM-MN4s&feature=related
I honestly couldn't/didn't want to watch more than a minute of this video; literally after thirty seconds I was overwhelmed by a feeling of disgust. Obviously the fact that any relationships operate that way, and that some husbands treat their wives this way, is horrible. But the idea of having so much time dedicated to watching the abuse happen to real people on national television, and that it seems to be more for entertainment than for educational purposes -- I find that exploitative and twisted. And obviously having the husband abuse the wife in the TV studio is inexcusable. It would be a much more valuable (and honorable) use of people's time, if the special focused on groups that deal with the problem, in addition to the problem itself.
I apologize for my lack of knowing that. I thought it was like Oprah.
Actually -- Oprah can annoy me for the exact same reason, i.e. that the show can seem exploitative.
Hmm, I guess I should ask something good, then... Which MBTI types appeal to you most for a relationship, and why?
Generally I'm attracted to NFs, for whatever reason. I guess they balance me out, our personalities are complementary, we have skills that the others lack -- and also NFs have similar values to me (honor, respect, civility), and we can have really great conversations.
