[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[mrcockburn]

How do you force yourselves to do things you really don't feel like doing, if there are no immediate consequences?

Cause right now, I'm being a lazy fucking twat.

 

[EJCC]

Hi. What do you do for an ENTJ who is depressed? I am trying all the things I know how to do, but I think I am basing my actions on what would work for me. I am an INFP, so it isn't working.

A little background, the ENTJ is male, my husband, 32 yo and is depressed due to a job loss. He was great at his job, is a very hard worker, ethical, honest. It's the economy, not his fault. A fact he acknowledges, but it doesn't seem to matter to him. We are alright from a money perspective but that also doesn't seem to matter to him. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Hi infp! :hi:

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer your question, i.e. if he's actually depressed. But I can say for sure that extended unemployment can do a whole lot of bad to a person's morale -- which explains the bolded, because what matters to your ESTJ is the fact that he's unemployed now, not the reasons for his unemployment (no reason to feel guilty if it isn't your fault).

My dad is an INTP and has been unemployed for the past six months and underemployed for the past year and a half, and he's had to keep himself very, very busy (with volunteering, projects around the house, etc) in order to stay sane. I'm guessing that a similar strategy would help your ESTJ if he isn't clinically depressed, i.e. keep him from moping about his lack of a job and help him keep a busy schedule -- or any schedule, at the very least. Your ESTJ will feel much better if he feels productive.

How do you force yourselves to do things you really don't feel like doing, if there are no immediate consequences?

Cause right now, I'm being a lazy fucking twat.

I doubt that my methods will carry over to an ESTP -- but just in case they do: If you have no deadline for the thing you have to do, give yourself a deadline anyway, and a carrot for when you accomplish the goal by the deadline. Do that with the knowledge that you will not give yourself the carrot if you don't meet the deadline. (Sample carrot: an episode of your favorite TV show? That's what I do, anyway.) Also, keep reminding yourself that it'll feel so much better when it's over with, than it feels when you avoid it. (I'm not sure if that will work with you because unfinished things really irritate me, almost as a general rule.)

 

[mrcockburn]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?

In case I'm an ENTP, [MENTION=8327]Tamske[/MENTION] help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?

In case I'm an ENTP, [MENTION=8327]Tamske[/MENTION] help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!

I could see you as ENxP. Probably ENFP, if one of those two.

Actually, the method I mentioned earlier is the way I squelch my Ne. I have to make myself do it. "EJCC, you MUST get off the internet until you finish studying for your Arabic quiz. No internet at all, if you can't get it all done before midnight, because you need sleep!" My Ne ends up being sad if I fail but especially happy when I succeed because the happiness at being able to do FUN things is combined with Te satisfaction that The Job Is Done.

 

[animenagai]

Yo ESTJ's, here's my question:

I get stressed when my Te kicks in. As a Te dom, do you find that your stress more than others?

 

[EJCC]

Yo ESTJ's, here's my question:

I get stressed when my Te kicks in. As a Te dom, do you find that your stress more than others?

Disclaimer: I am feeling chill right now so I may be biased. BUT... I'd say that if anything, Te makes me personally feel more in control, not necessarily more stressed. If I have something that really needs to get done and my Te helps me do it, I am calm and not stressed because I trust my Te, and my Te knows exactly what to do.

The downside of that is when I get put into an unfamiliar situation with no precedent and/or no way to know if I really am in control of how well I do on something... and that's when I do get stressed. Probably more stressed than other people, in similar/unfamiliar situations.

On average, though, I'd say that Te does not make for a generally stressed-out person.

 

[animenagai]

Thanks EJCC! I can learn from that actually.

 

[Tamske]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]
I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?
In case I'm an ENTP, [MENTION=8327]Tamske[/MENTION] help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!

What works for me (sometimes): Fe and Te together!
Te - you need to do this
Fe - hubby (or insert another person) will be happy if you did this
Also, I've asked lots of questions here about specific J-style things I wanted to try. The hardest thing, to me, is something I need to concentrate on while it isn't any creative. Preparing lessons, I think I've used that example many times already. Putting Ne aside for a while is hard, getting your Ne doing specific creative work (eg. solve problem for work; continuing work on story instead of inventing totally new story) is even harder.

A few tricks...
1) A load of work and you put it off because it's such a huge load? Try not to look at the whole bunch of tasks at once. Tell yourself "okay, now I'll do *this* specific task, afterwards I'll decide if I continue or not." Then you can be content/proud already because you finished something, while you know that normally you wouldn't even have begun yet. Works quite well for me, especially for boring tasks that need attention.

2) If you can't be creative, be at least productive. (Yes, in that order. If you're a Ne-dom, you need to use that order or you don't get anything). Not writing (<-insert your creative project here), just surfing the 'net? Turn off the computer and do dishes. You'll feel better afterwards because you did something, if only it was doing dishes in order to have the dishes done when the muse strikes. Because nothing is as frustrating as having to do dishes when you ARE inspired. If they are ready - Ne can have all your time and attention, without a guilty feeling of "I should work now". Try to see the "work now" as "having the stupid things done when I'm inspired and would like to do great things".

3) Forgive yourself. ENTPs have a totally idealistic view of themselves - they think they can do anything: work when they are tired and do creative projects when they are not, not getting enough sleep and still be the creative and productive old self. We think we're more efficient than we are. All working day long, I imagine I'd write a thousand words when I come home, but then reality hits hard in the form of being exhausted after a long day's work. So did you mess about instead of working on your projects? Well that's okay. Don't be too hard. Did you mess about instead of getting your real work done? Well that's bad. Next time better.

 

[EJCC]

^ Great advice, Tamske! (I think my INTP dad uses your #2 strategy a lot.)
You are such an excellent contributor to this thread.

p.s. 3000 posts!!!

 

[SD45T-2]

I have read this entire thread. Not in one sitting, mind you. EJCC, you've done a great service to ESTJs. I've also watched your videos. Now I've got some questions.

Do you know what a SD45T-2 is?

Have you ever considered trying bracket racing or autocrossing? Have you ever watched Top Gear (BBC)? Have you ever been so fortunate as to hear a Lamborghini in real life? Are you fond of any particular cars? This covers make, model, or even a car your parents had when you were a kid that made an impression on you.

I realize this is a bit cliched for ESTJs, but have you ever considered a career in law enforcement? I'm sure you'd turn out better than McNulty. You could probably be more like Lester Freamon, sitting in the corner knitting instead of carving. Anyway, you've said you'd like to be some sort of expert that people go to when they have certain problems. If it was a decent size agency there would be lots of different positions other than patrol that you could persue: traffic (motorcycles are cool), mounted (I'm not sure if horses or cool), narcotics, K9, EOD, MAIT, youth services, property crimes, identity theft, crimes against persons, gangs, etc. There are also things like fish & game, and the California Department of Insurance has sworn peace officers who investigate insurance fraud. Sometimes they do undercover stings.

On a related note, have you read any Joseph Wambaugh?

Have you watched any Adam-12?

Are you into economics? Have you read any Thomas Sowell? He strikes me as very INTJ. I'm about half way through Basic Economics, and I'm loving it. I was looking at the world around me in new ways after just a first few chapters.

Have you read any P.J. O'Rourke? I think he's awesome. I'm pretty sure he's an ENTP.

Do you ever go shooting?

Have you read Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets? I read it awhile before I watched The Wire, so I hit the ground running. I thought it was a great show. I largely disagree with David Simon's worldview, but I don't boubt the accuracy of the events portrayed.

That brings me to another HBO showed that I loved. Have you watched Deadwood? I'm pretty sure David Milch is an ENTJ.

Do you like the Marx Brothers? I recently decided to rewatch all of their movies and do it in chronological order. I just watched Monkey Business (1931).


Maybe I should stop for now. I'm also an ESTJ, so you could ask me stuff too.

 

[Winds of Thor]

Whats the main thermodynamical difference between a diezel engine and a gasoline engine ? (hint: what keeps the combustion going)

The compression ratio. In a diesel it is much much higher, so high in fact that it's the heat from the compression in the cylinder which causes perpetual burning. The thing that stops a diesel engine from running is fuel cutoff.

 

[entropie]

The compression ratio. In a diesel it is much much higher, so high in fact that it's the heat from the compression in the cylinder which causes perpetual burning. The thing that stops a diesel engine from running is fuel cutoff.

Thats true. I had answered 'ignition plug'.

 

[SD45T-2]

Gasoline engines can also have ignition without a spark, but that means something is seriously wrong.

 

[entropie]

Gasoline engines can also have ignition without a spark, but that means something is seriously wrong.

Indeed ! using the whiskey to power the engine instead of drinking it is a serious faux pas

 

[Winds of Thor]

Thats true. I had answered 'ignition plug'.

Ahh! I see your post.

 

[EJCC]

I have read this entire thread. Not in one sitting, mind you.

I am still impressed!!!

EJCC, you've done a great service to ESTJs.

Why thank you!

Do you know what a SD45T-2 is?

I didn't before, but I just looked it up -- I love trains

Have you ever considered trying bracket racing or autocrossing?

Probably not. I generally don't feel the Need For Speed. I definitely hear the Call of the Open Road, sometimes, but not really the Need For Speed.

Have you ever watched Top Gear (BBC)? Have you ever been so fortunate as to hear a Lamborghini in real life?

No and no, but both sound awesome
(I haven't heard a Lamborghini because I have yet to live somewhere that has enough rich people in it for that to be possible.)

Are you fond of any particular cars? This covers make, model, or even a car your parents had when you were a kid that made an impression on you.

I am very, very practical about cars; if it has the features I want, and gets me where I need to go, then I like it. Although style helps too.
My dad has a Honda Fit, and I love that it's smooth, has a nice interior, is iPod compatible, has TONS of space in the back (for being such a tiny car), is generally fun to drive, and is really cute. Hopefully I'll inherit it from him someday!

(I know that isn't a particularly noteworthy car (by Lamborghini standards), but I haven't really ever been in a "nice" car, and I wasn't raised in a "nice car" culture; nobody was really rich enough to want to show it off.)

I realize this is a bit cliched for ESTJs, but have you ever considered a career in law enforcement? I'm sure you'd turn out better than McNulty. You could probably be more like Lester Freamon, sitting in the corner knitting instead of carving. Anyway, you've said you'd like to be some sort of expert that people go to when they have certain problems. If it was a decent size agency there would be lots of different positions other than patrol that you could persue: traffic (motorcycles are cool), mounted (I'm not sure if horses or cool), narcotics, K9, EOD, MAIT, youth services, property crimes, identity theft, crimes against persons, gangs, etc. There are also things like fish & game, and the California Department of Insurance has sworn peace officers who investigate insurance fraud. Sometimes they do undercover stings.

I have definitely considered it. The concept has a lot of appeal to me. It would be fun to work for the FBI, I think. And I'd like to think that I'd be better than McNulty.

On a related note, have you read any Joseph Wambaugh?

Have you watched any Adam-12?

Nope, and nope...

Are you into economics? Have you read any Thomas Sowell? He strikes me as very INTJ. I'm about half way through Basic Economics, and I'm loving it. I was looking at the world around me in new ways after just a first few chapters.

Haven't read that -- and because my first impression of economics has been the four (HORRIBLY taught) economics courses I'm required to take for my major, I can't say I love economics. Which is a shame -- I get the feeling that if I learned it in a setting where I didn't have to do any equations or graphs, I would like it a lot.
Is Thomas Sowell fairly user-friendly? How technical does he get?

Have you read any P.J. O'Rourke? I think he's awesome. I'm pretty sure he's an ENTP.

Haven't read any of his stuff, but I've heard of him -- I think he's on "Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR, sometimes. Isn't he a Libertarian?

Do you ever go shooting?

You mean, in a shooting gallery? It's on my to-do list. I don't plan on hunting, ever, but target practice would be fun.

Have you read Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets? I read it awhile before I watched The Wire, so I hit the ground running. I thought it was a great show. I largely disagree with David Simon's worldview, but I don't boubt the accuracy of the events portrayed.

I've been meaning to read that book!! "The Wire" was such a great show. Haven't watched season 5 yet but I loved the rest. Did you know "Homicide" got made into a TV show, too? That's another one I've been meaning to watch. My parents watched it, and loved it.

That brings me to another HBO showed that I loved. Have you watched Deadwood? I'm pretty sure David Milch is an ENTJ.

My aunt loves that show -- and I've been thinking of watching it because it has Timothy Olyphant in it, and "Justified" is one of my favorite shows on television right now.

Do you like the Marx Brothers? I recently decided to rewatch all of their movies and do it in chronological order. I just watched Monkey Business (1931).

LOVE the Marx Brothers. It's been too long since I've seen them.

Maybe I should stop for now. I'm also an ESTJ, so you could ask me stuff too.

No need to feel pressured to stop!
I don't have any questions for you atm, but I'll let you know

 

[SD45T-2]

I didn't before, but I just looked it up -- I love trains

Cool. Any particular reason? I mean, does someone in your family work for a railroad, or is the area you're from a rail hub?

No and no, but both sound awesome
(I haven't heard a Lamborghini because I have yet to live somewhere that has enough rich people in it for that to be possible.)

I am very, very practical about cars; if it has the features I want, and gets me where I need to go, then I like it. Although style helps too.
My dad has a Honda Fit, and I love that it's smooth, has a nice interior, is iPod compatible, has TONS of space in the back (for being such a tiny car), is generally fun to drive, and is really cute. Hopefully I'll inherit it from him someday!

(I know that isn't a particularly noteworthy car (by Lamborghini standards), but I haven't really ever been in a "nice" car, and I wasn't raised in a "nice car" culture; nobody was really rich enough to want to show it off.)

A car doesn't have to be exotic for it to be special to someone. There are some rich people around here (I'm not one of them), so I see some interesting stuff. Sometimes if it's a Lamborghini, Maserati, Ferrari, etc., I hear it coming and start looking around trying to spot it.

I don't think you need to be a serious car enthusiast to enjoy Top Gear. Some of the stuff they do is so wacky even my mom finds it entertaining.

I have definitely considered it. The concept has a lot of appeal to me. It would be fun to work for the FBI, I think. And I'd like to think that I'd be better than McNulty.

The fact that you can write clearly is very significant. A lot of young people these days have a poor grasp of English, and law enforcement agencies have been struggling to get people who can pass the written tests.

I highly recommend that you read The New Centurions. It's a classic. http://www.amazon.com/New-Centurions-Joseph-Wambaugh/dp/0446509221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330075159&sr=8-1

Haven't read that -- and because my first impression of economics has been the four (HORRIBLY taught) economics courses I'm required to take for my major, I can't say I love economics. Which is a shame -- I get the feeling that if I learned it in a setting where I didn't have to do any equations or graphs, I would like it a lot.
Is Thomas Sowell fairly user-friendly? How technical does he get?

Basic Economics has no charts, graphs, or equations. It's very practical and relatable, and that's the whole point. The nice thing about reading it on your own is that you can go at your own pace.

I'm reading the 3rd edition, so I can't comment on the 4th edition: http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-4th-Ed-Economy/dp/0465022529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330076381&sr=1-1

Haven't read any of his stuff, but I've heard of him -- I think he's on "Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR, sometimes. Isn't he a Libertarian?

He's a libertarian leaning Republican, if you want to get technical.

He was the foreign affairs desk chief at Rolling Stone for a number of years and went all over the world. He covered things like the fall of the Berlin Wall and also really obscure stuff like the aftermath of the 1989 coup in Paraguay. Some of his books are collections of articles he wrote, both for Rolling Stone and a variety of other publications. He's sort of like a cross between Dave Barry and Hunter S. Thompson. A prime example: http://www.amazon.com/Holidays-Hell-Intrepid-Reporter-Travels/dp/0802137016/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330077497&sr=1-1

I don't always agree with him, but I find his stuff both entertaining and thought provoking.

You mean, in a shooting gallery? It's on my to-do list. I don't plan on hunting, ever, but target practice would be fun.

The Sig Mosquito is a great handgun for target practice/casual shooting. It's similar to the P226 and P229, but it's chambered in .22LR so it's got mild recoil, it's not super loud, and the ammo is cheap. A friend of mine let me use his, and it was nice.

I've been meaning to read that book!! "The Wire" was such a great show. Haven't watched season 5 yet but I loved the rest. Did you know "Homicide" got made into a TV show, too? That's another one I've been meaning to watch. My parents watched it, and loved it.

I've got the first 2 seasons of Homicide: Life on the Street on the Netflix queue, along with a ton of other things. It'll be awhile before I get to it.

My aunt loves that show -- and I've been thinking of watching it because it has Timothy Olyphant in it, and "Justified" is one of my favorite shows on television right now.

I'd say Seth Bullock (Timothy Olyphant) is an ISTJ 1w9. Al Swearengen is so ENTJ 8w7 it's hilarious.

LOVE the Marx Brothers. It's been too long since I've seen them.

Do you know any other people your age who are into the Marx Brothers? I know a couple.

 

[Ukon]

I haven't actually met an ESTJ in real life, at least I don't believe I have, so my questions might be a little strange or oddly biased.

What is one career you would like to do but know you wouldn't naturally be good at it? What is a career you don't want to do but you know that you would be good at? What do you think of INFPs? What is your parenting style? ....Kittens or puppies~?

 

[SD45T-2]

What is one career you would like to do but know you wouldn't naturally be good at it?

Rock star.

What is a career you don't want to do but you know that you would be good at?

I'm not sure. Maybe plumbing.

I think I could do well at a job that didn't interest me if it was relatively short term. If it was long term my performance would probably deteriorate after awhile due to burnout.

What do you think of INFPs?

I don't know any very well, so I'm neutral.

What is your parenting style?

I don't have kids, but hopefully I will some day.

One thing that's important is not to just give kids stuff, aside from Christmas and birthdays that is. If kids have to do something to earn money or something else they want it will mean more to them when they get it. And when they do get something that they didn't earn, that will be special to them and they'll be more likely to feel grateful.

....Kittens or puppies~?

Puppies. Kittens can be fine, but I'm a dog guy.

 

[EJCC]

What is one career you would like to do but know you wouldn't naturally be good at it?

Engineering! Building things would be awesome. Inventing things would be awesome. Learning new stuff on the job and using so many parts of your brain on the job would be awesome. But I am terrible at science, and not nearly good enough at math.

What is a career you don't want to do but you know that you would be good at?

I would be an auto mechanic!! The type that plays metal really loudly in the background, and doesn't rip you off but is brutally honest about your car.
(I already listen to metal, btw )

What do you think of INFPs?

I like the ones I've met although I'm not very close friends with any. The one thing that can bug me about them is that they can strike me as flaky... and there's the Scary Fi Factor. But besides that I like them

What is your parenting style?

No kids yet, so I'm answering in theory --
I think I would be a fun but honest parent. I wouldn't lie to my kids. I would treat them with respect, and I would never, ever answer their questions with "because I said so" or "because I'm your mother". I would take the time to explain things to them, to answer their questions, to be there when they need them.

I also get the feeling that I would be more of a disciplinarian, than whoever ends up being the father.

....Kittens or puppies~?

KITTENS!