[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

Dear ESTJ
If you were a parent, what is the honest best you can hope for your son/daughter's future? Because I'm hearing 'happiness', but I refuse to believe it's as go with the flow as that. I want all the nitty gritty details.

Well, my first instinct is to say that, type-related wishes notwithstanding, it actually is that go with the flow. Like any xxxJ parents, we might tend to want to nag and micromanage, but if we're good parents at all we'll learn to take deep breaths, step back, and let go a little.

But to be as specific as you would want me to be... Here's what I would want for my kid, if I had a kid:
- All the basics: Safety, enough food/water, a roof over their head
- Financial security (they don't have to be rich, or even middle class, as long as they don't have to struggle to have enough for themselves and their own)
- A job they love, where they can use their strengths and be admired for what they do best -- but if they end up a stay-at-home parent, I'd settle for them having a hobby or volunteer position that they love, because I see hobbies and work as self-expression and I would hate for my child to be denied that
- A romantic partner who is worthy of them (I don't care where my child is on the Kinsey spectrum as long as they have that)
- A good relationship with me and my spouse (I grew up being friends with my parents and I want the same for my kid)
- No mental or physical health problems

I could go on a while, but I'd get into things specific to me, so I won't bother. I will say, though, that ESTJs generally want their kids to grow up with the same values that they have, frequenting the same institutions that they do, and generally seeming like a chip off the old block. For example, I'd be kind of sad if my kid grew up and decided not to be an Episcopalian, or decided that gay people were sinners, or became too selfish to want to participate in community service. But that all depends on the ESTJ you're talking about.

 

[Malice]

- A romantic partner who is worthy of them (I don't care where my child is on the Kinsey spectrum as long as they have that)

can you explain this a bit better? what makes a partner 'worthy' for your potential child?

 

[sui generis]

Does diet affect your productivity level? For instance, I ate two Big Macs, a large milkshake and three KitKats for lunch, and I was too tired to work at my best.

Do you feel/react to the affects of food too, or can you just "ignore" them?

I mostly react to the effects of LACK of food. If I haven't eaten a satisfying meal (e.g. if I have just a salad or soup) I am distracted and cranky and can't concentrate. Same if I try to, like, study for eight hours straight without eating and my blood sugar tanks. I don't notice mental effects after eating junk food.

 

[EJCC]

can you explain this a bit better? what makes a partner 'worthy' for your potential child?

I meant -- you know how friends can be, when they disapprove of their friends' girlfriends/boyfriends? "(S)he doesn't deserve you." Same thing. If my kid was dating someone who I thought was not nearly as smart, charming, funny, motivated, charitable, or as good a person in general, as my kid, then I don't think I'd approve of the match. Or at least I'd be like the stereotypical dad (despite being female ) and take them aside and say "My kid is too good for you, so if you hurt her/him, I will hunt you down."

 

[EJCC]

Need help understanding the ESTJ's top four functions? Here is a relevant tutorial -- with helpful illustrations! -- from the Picture Time thread.

 

[sculpting]

Hello Ms EJCC,

First, I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to answer all of these estj questions. It is very much appreciated and your insights and perspective are always illuminating!

I had an ESTJ scenario which I wanted to seek your input on. I am best friends with an ENTP project manager for several years now. We also worked with an ESTJ project manager who became close friends with the ENTP and the two of them spent a lot of time outside of work hanging out together.

The estj is always superficially nice to me and we had a good working relationship in which the estj said she respected my contributions to the project at various times. The estj and entp both have left our company so I only see them socially now, then entp often and estj rarely.

The weird part is that when I see the estj it is almost always at an event or get together with the entp. Occasionally the entp would try and get us all three together. When this happens, I pick up a strange vibe from the estj-almost like annoyance or irritation that I am there. She will focus her convo on the entp and not make eye contact with me and will find reasons to leave early?? I have talked with the entp about this, as this is not how the estj behaves when it is just me and her, either in a work or social setting...it seems specific to when the entp is around?

My initial guess/possible projection was that perhaps the estj was not wanting to share her social time with the entp with another person, perhaps seeking to have a close relationship with the entp, thus I now decline invitations where I feel I may be intruding into their quality time together-does this sound totally off kilter?? Any thoughts would be valauble as I care for both of them and want to make sure I dont have a negative impact on their relationship...

 

[EJCC]

No, that actually sounds about right. Based on my experiences with my ENTP friend, I'm guessing that every time that has happened, with the three of you, the ESTJ didn't find out about it until the last minute because the naive ENTP assumed that the ESTJ would be fine with it. I have several Extroverted friends who have done that to me before and not understood why I was upset by it.

In theory, as a fellow extrovert, I should have that same attitude -- i.e. "The more, the merrier!" -- and most of the time I do. But I don't feel like that when I'm in a small group where everyone there is a very different closeness level to me. I really hate that, because it means that I have to cater to only part of the group and be either dismissive or awkwardly close with the rest of them. Ideally, in big group situations, it'll be a few close friends and a lot of not-as-close friends, because I can be friendly but distant with the whole group and still cater to almost everyone -- and my close friends would be more understanding about being treated that way by me, because they know me better. But in small-group situations, there's really no way to win. Someone's going to be left out, someone's going to leave having had less fun than the other people there. And that frustrates me, especially since if the "third wheels" hadn't come at all, there wouldn't have been any awkwardness. Everyone could have left having had a good time. And I wouldn't have felt let down, or like I had let someone down.

Did that make sense? It was a little bit stream-of-consciousness.

EDIT: I didn't even mention one of the most important things! i.e. the fact that ESTJs just HATE it when things don't go as planned. If the ESTJ had gone through the whole day looking forward to one-on-one time with her ENTP friend, and that gets ruined (from her perspective) by someone else tagging along -- That would be frustrating even if it was another close friend coming along, you know?

 

[sui generis]

^^^ YES OMG YES.

My initial guess/possible projection was that perhaps the estj was not wanting to share her social time with the entp with another person, perhaps seeking to have a close relationship with the entp, thus I now decline invitations where I feel I may be intruding into their quality time together-does this sound totally off kilter?? Any thoughts would be valauble as I care for both of them and want to make sure I dont have a negative impact on their relationship...

You're not wrong here! I think that the ESTJ might want to become closer friends with the ENTP. Also, like EJCC said, we haaaate when our plans get disrupted. I think ESTJ had her heart set on hanging out with the ENTP alone and was let down that she didn't get to.

 

[sculpting]

Thank you both so much!!

It is sort of a relief to understand it isnt me, but rather a combination of things, that happen to involve me. I will touch base with the ENTP-I think she tends towards the "more the merrier" approach to social events at times, which she may not understand the full impact of.

 

[EJCC]

Glad to help! Yeah, it wasn't you at all. It was the ENTP being oblivious and the ESTJ being stuck in her ways. laugh: I relate so much!)

 

[mrcockburn]

If someone commit a crime for which the standard punishment was hanging, drawing and quartering in public - and the criminal was PROVEN guilty beyond all possible doubt, would you support the execution since it was fair, standard procedure?

 

[EJCC]

If someone commit a crime for which the standard punishment was hanging, drawing and quartering in public - and the criminal was PROVEN guilty beyond all possible doubt, would you support the execution since it was fair, standard procedure?

If I thought that hanging, drawing and quartering in public was a fair punishment for anything, then yes. But in my opinion, no one deserves that -- and public executions make me feel horrible about humanity.

It's not about standard procedure, with ESTJs -- it's about our internal, gut feelings of right and wrong (i.e. Fi), and those feelings are often independent of the law. Only when they're in sync, will we be law-abiding.

 

[Tamske]

^And if the ESTJ's gut feelings are out of sync with the law, they'll change the law. According to standard procedure. That's how an ESTJ works.
Fi - I feel this is wrong! It should be changed to that!
Te - Let's get on with this. What's the best way to get our wish?
Si - Here's a list of possible ways.

 

[EJCC]

^ EXACTLY.

 

[SilkRoad]

^And if the ESTJ's gut feelings are out of sync with the law, they'll change the law. According to standard procedure. That's how an ESTJ works.
Fi - I feel this is wrong! It should be changed to that!
Te - Let's get on with this. What's the best way to get our wish?
Si - Here's a list of possible ways.

But what if the ESTJ is not in a position to change the law? If they care enough will they try to PUT THEMSELVES in a position to influence the law? Or will they just try to forget about it? serious question, actually.

 

[EJCC]

But what if the ESTJ is not in a position to change the law? If they care enough will they try to PUT THEMSELVES in a position to influence the law? Or will they just try to forget about it? serious question, actually.

Yeah, definitely, if they care enough. But to an extent, everyone is like that -- if they care about something enough, they feel like they have to act. I'll bet you especially relate to that as an INFJ; most of the INFJs I know are either activists or activists-at-heart. But the difference with ESTJs is that they are so practical and goal-oriented -- so if they don't think rebellion against the system will do any good, then they probably won't really rebel (except maybe symbolically and out of frustration, e.g. flipping off a cop behind his back). Which is why they'll go to whatever lengths they feel they have to, in order to make a difference, if they care enough; and I think a lot of ESTJs subscribe to the idea that the best way to change a system is to become a part of it and change it from within, instead of aggressively trying to attack it from the outside.

 

[SilkRoad]

^Yup, all makes sense!

 

[Redbone]

ESTJs, do you just show your Ne to those that you are really comfortable with? You know, the silly, goofy teasing stuff.

Also, even though there are times when I am serious, my ESTJ will go into this teasing and playfully poking mode. Even when I get upset, he'll just say something like, "Aw, you mad? Come here and let me give you a hug. That's what you wanted anyway...you should've just asked me. I can't tell you no." Sometimes I have to smile but sometimes it is irritating as hell (and yes--he knows that it will totally irritate me at times). Why does he do this?

 

[mrcockburn]

ESTJs, do you just show your Ne to those that you are really comfortable with? You know, the silly, goofy teasing stuff.

Also, even though there are times when I am serious, my ESTJ will go into this teasing and playfully poking mode. Even when I get upset, he'll just say something like, "Aw, you mad? Come here and let me give you a hug. That's what you wanted anyway...you should've just asked me. I can't tell you no." Sometimes I have to smile but sometimes it is irritating as hell (and yes--he knows that it will totally irritate me at times). Why does he do this?

Is he by any chance intoxicated? Or a closet ENFP?

 

[mrcockburn]

ESTJs -- do you ever find that people get angry/offended if you assert yourself, no matter how diplomatically you do it?

People in general, not just those close to you. It's pissing me off.