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Would you like to type me?

Falcon112

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
65
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
153
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
ONE REQUEST - please don't quote me in this thread.

Three years? Four? I might almost now my type, but be overthinking again. I strongly rely on the „outside”, regulating emotions and perceiving myself through the others' eyes. Thus, sensing myself causes some trouble.

In the past I wrote some „type me” questions, rarely using the prepared questionnaires – but never posted them at all anywhere. The first time I did was on the Reddit (and got typed as an ESTJ, which I doubt), a few days ago. If you were interested, I prepared a merged screenshot of my answers. However, I have no idea how to add it in a correct size. Tinypic could work, but these pictures stop working after some time.

I let myself check what kind of things are useful during typing process and decided to add some attachements:
  • OCEAN (below)
  • family tree (below)
  • functions tests (Te > Ti > Ni > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se)
  • enneagram: I lately got convinced to 153. Used to think that 3w4 would fit.
  • I'm diagnosed with mixed personality disorder (narcissistic and obsessive-compulsive) and OCD. Due to my crossed lateralization, I have high functioning dyslexia and don't differentiate left from right. In my native language the mistakes occur extremely rarely, but in English it is much more common for me to make a spelling mistake. Which I, as a perfectionist, dislike. My sight-movement coordination is weaker than average.
This is my family tree. I don't know everything about my family members, expecting to find and ENTP, ESFJ and ISTJ on my mothers' side and suspecting that my father's brother could be an ENTJ. These are only my guessings, but might be useful. It's a shorter version because I don't want to get too deeply into my family's privacy.



The OCEAN:


What causes the most trouble? As a child I was different than I am currently. I'll add a description of my childhood behaviour because I think that it might be important.



Mayflower's questionnaire:



RadicalDoubt's questionnaire:



And MBTI:


I could add something more, like my self-description and other questionnaires, but I think there is already too much text. If there were any questions, I can answer them anytime. Thank you for your attention.

ONE REQUEST - please don't quote me in this thread.
 

Burning Paradigm

Vibe Curator & Night Owl
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
2,036
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Hmmm, this is quite interesting. For Enneagram, I think you're in the right vicinity; I'm getting a lot of triple competency vibes from your recurring motifs of perfectionism and wanting to be successful, however you define that. I'd say 1 with a strong 3-fix personally, so a 135 rather than 153. Specifically, 1w9 > 3w4 > 5w6 sp/so.

As for MBTI, I see the Te, but not as the primary/dominant function. The way you describe your internal state of mind as a little more scatterbrained and how you deal with your external surroundings as a bit disorganized makes me inclined to see a Ji function as more dominant. I'm not saying Te-doms aren't this way, but you seem more attuned with your inner emotions and sense of self, leading me to see a balance between Te and Fi. I don't see anything that discredits INTJ from your MBTI description (possibly an ENTJ with a greater awareness of one's Fi); being emotionally expressive/seeking attention isn't mutually exclusive with being a Thinker, as that can mean many things. Viewing your thoughts as non-literal or "dark matter" is more indicative of N, though.

Welcome to the forum :D! Where in Poland are you from, if you don't mind my asking?
 

RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,843
MBTI Type
TiSi
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
As a note, I cannot access your family tree nor ocean score (but would've likely ignored them anyways). Try url for your image [/ IMG] (without the space between the / and I), I find that works a bit more consistently.

I suspect you might be an ENTJ (unless you would prefer the dichotomous approach, in which case INTJ is likely sufficient, but I see more Te than Ni personally). In terms of both dichotomy a function stacking, I think a combination of TePi works better than than the EP temperament because you seem very oriented around structure, consequence, and prediction (even considering pds). In terms of function structure, your weaknesses do seem to center around the feeling functions/your aversion to them and your focus seems to be heavily centered on your logic and standards of action, which I think is likely an indicator of Te dom rather than Ni. In addition, I think Te and Se in combination in particular could work, especially considering the whole "stop dreaming, start planning" sort of mindset. You seem a bit quicker to action then a Pi dom and, despite struggling in the sensory realm, seem to have more resistance to the emotional. The "I don't think" comment is really interesting, because I have heard a lot of people on the Ni-Se axis, more commonly those with high Se (Ni dom tends to have more of an inner world, but occasionally befalls that too). I don't see Ni overtly, but I don't see Si either and definitely do not see Ne (ie. your planned and structured, not possiblities driven as far as I can tell), so xNTJ seems fine, particularity ENTJ.

Enneagram wise, 3w4 seems really fitting in terms of your interests and focuses, as well as your future-sightedness and attention to others. 1 works as a fix, but I'm not seeing the moralism nor rage focus, despite your comfort with it. Tritype seems right though, 3w4 1w9 5w6 most likely. I'm not getting much of a read on your iv outside of that sx blindness (ie. sp/so or so/sp) seems fitting

I'm not super into socionics yet, so I won't give you a definite there, but you may want to look into LIE, as I think you might relate to Si polR, especially considering your relationship to sensation. Again though, not my domain of talent, but I'm trying to grow my skills there by trying to apply knowledge eheh.

If you have more in depth questions, lmk, it'll be interesting to see what other feedback you get.
 

Vendrah

Never-retiring Millenial
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,810
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
As a note, I cannot access your family tree nor ocean score (but would've likely ignored them anyways). Try url for your image [/ IMG] (without the space between the / and I), I find that works a bit more consistently.[/QUOTE]

Me neither that is why I prefer to wait.
 

Falcon112

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
65
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
153
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I didn't expect such quick answers! I came here just in case and to check (for the 100th time) whether I should edit this post once again or not. What a nice surprise :)

Hmmm, this is quite interesting. For Enneagram, I think you're in the right vicinity; I'm getting a lot of triple competency vibes from your recurring motifs of perfectionism and wanting to be successful, however you define that. I'd say 1 with a strong 3-fix personally, so a 135 rather than 153. Specifically, 1w9 > 3w4 > 5w6 sp/so.

As for MBTI, I see the Te, but not as the primary/dominant function. The way you describe your internal state of mind as a little more scatterbrained and how you deal with your external surroundings as a bit disorganized makes me inclined to see a Ji function as more dominant. I'm not saying Te-doms aren't this way, but you seem more attuned with your inner emotions and sense of self, leading me to see a balance between Te and Fi. I don't see anything that discredits INTJ from your MBTI description (possibly an ENTJ with a greater awareness of one's Fi); being emotionally expressive/seeking attention isn't mutually exclusive with being a Thinker, as that can mean many things. Viewing your thoughts as non-literal or "dark matter" is more indicative of N, though.

Welcome to the forum :D! Where in Poland are you from, if you don't mind my asking?

Hello :) I'm from Greater Poland. Thank you for the analysis.
I would also say that there is Te-Fi among my functions and this Fi is really troublesome. I bounce between "I feel nothing, I don't care, blah blah blah" and "I want to cry or throw things around my room because this stupid program doesn't work, wasting my priceless time". The descriptions of INTJs often say that they are cold and unemotional - however they point that young, immature INTJs can act like that. I'm pretty sure that I'm intuitive, though. Intuitiveness + Te + Fi would imply xNTJ or xNFP.

As a note, I cannot access your family tree nor ocean score (but would've likely ignored them anyways). Try url for your image [/ IMG] (without the space between the / and I), I find that works a bit more consistently.

I suspect you might be an ENTJ (unless you would prefer the dichotomous approach, in which case INTJ is likely sufficient, but I see more Te than Ni personally). In terms of both dichotomy a function stacking, I think a combination of TePi works better than than the EP temperament because you seem very oriented around structure, consequence, and prediction (even considering pds). In terms of function structure, your weaknesses do seem to center around the feeling functions/your aversion to them and your focus seems to be heavily centered on your logic and standards of action, which I think is likely an indicator of Te dom rather than Ni. In addition, I think Te and Se in combination in particular could work, especially considering the whole "stop dreaming, start planning" sort of mindset. You seem a bit quicker to action then a Pi dom and, despite struggling in the sensory realm, seem to have more resistance to the emotional. The "I don't think" comment is really interesting, because I have heard a lot of people on the Ni-Se axis, more commonly those with high Se (Ni dom tends to have more of an inner world, but occasionally befalls that too). I don't see Ni overtly, but I don't see Si either and definitely do not see Ne (ie. your planned and structured, not possiblities driven as far as I can tell), so xNTJ seems fine, particularity ENTJ.

Enneagram wise, 3w4 seems really fitting in terms of your interests and focuses, as well as your future-sightedness and attention to others. 1 works as a fix, but I'm not seeing the moralism nor rage focus, despite your comfort with it. Tritype seems right though, 3w4 1w9 5w6 most likely. I'm not getting much of a read on your iv outside of that sx blindness (ie. sp/so or so/sp) seems fitting

I'm not super into socionics yet, so I won't give you a definite there, but you may want to look into LIE, as I think you might relate to Si polR, especially considering your relationship to sensation. Again though, not my domain of talent, but I'm trying to grow my skills there by trying to apply knowledge eheh.

If you have more in depth questions, lmk, it'll be interesting to see what other feedback you get.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your analysis! Yesterday, after my typing Pississippi attempt, I started to read about socionics. I got equally high schores as LIE and ILI. ILI's description (which is INTp, so Ni-Te - right?) was more accurate in my opinion.
Sp/so sounds right.
About Ni - it's a deeply introverted function, so it might not be too visible. From what I read, ENTJs are more decisive and less perfectionist than INTJs. INTJs prefer thinking to doing.
My main doubt concerns the childhood. Does it sound like an xNTJ child? Maybe I was just a confident, raised with love kid or maybe my current "type" is a mask, created after school experience.

[QUOTE="Vendrah, post: 3243057, member: 32874"]Me neither that is why I prefer to wait.[/QUOTE]

Oh, of course. When I clicked the links, it worked - let me try again. How to attach a file from my computer with IMG? Does it work now?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22623._xfImport[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]22624._xfImport[/ATTACH]

I'm a fan of statistics. Something sensible or playing board games, it doesn't matter - I can make stats of rolls of a dice in order to check whether the probability of getting each number is approximately equal. I did the same thing with my book characters' types, including current and former stories characters lists. The most popular types were INTJs, ISTJs, INTPs and ESTPs. I also tested functions with various weights (for example the dominant function multiplied by 4 or 30 in various cases etc.). In both cases Te > Ni > Ti > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se. What is interesting, this order reminds me of my MBTI functions scores. I don't know if it is statistically important, though. In my opinion you can analyse a writer's mind judging his books, but does it apply to personality type? My main characters have various types, including ISTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, ENFP, ENTP and ESTP.
 

pississippi

New member
Joined
Jul 26, 2020
Messages
10
Hi, so I skimmed through what you wrote and I can try to give you an idea of your socionics type.

I think you seem Te/Fi valuing- you value trust, work ethic, etc. Also, your description of hating your own emotional outbursts, disliking emotional reactions, and even not experiencing emotions seems like Fe PoLR, which INTp's have. INTp's are also process over result, which explains your perfectionism, which is more than just OCD IMO. Process types generally focus more on the quality of their work than result types like LIEs. Also, you seem overwhelmingly introverted in the socionics sense- namely, you focus on your own opinions and attitudes over happenings in the world around you. You value developing your skills and understanding of processes over actively changing things in the outside world. For example, you're a fan of statistics- but in the sense that you play with them, privately and extensively, for your own private projects.
Discomfort with sensation fits both ILI and ENTj because both have Si in their Super ego block. However the LIE will experience more discomfort with Si than Fe, and the ILI vice versa.

ILIs use the functions Ni and Te together when they're most comfortable. Generally, goals related to Ni are seen as more important to them, and they tend to use Te as a tool to achieve their goals. LIEs are the other way, so they see efficiency as an end as well as a mean.
 

Vendrah

Never-retiring Millenial
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,810
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
@ O P

I like stats either and I know the relations and connections between Enneagram, Big Five, Cognitive Functions and MBTI. So, you could do a BIG 5 IPIP NEO with facets test, this one here:
Personality Assessor | IPIP-120 Personality Test

And post in images.
For some odd reason I cant see attachments, so you need to put [I M G] [/ I M G] (together) and preferable to upload elsewhere so I can see it. Or do what you had done now, it worked out.

From the simpler test from truity that you are posted you seem to be a NJ type from Big Five, clearly, and no clearence between E/I. But truity test is modest, the one I linked is indeed deeper and better.
About these:

functions tests (Te > Ti > Ni > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se)
enneagram: I lately got convinced to 153.

Te, Ti, Ni and Ne first is definitely NT type.
Merging from Big Five, it goes to XNTJ.

1-5-3.
One is linked with Te, Ni and Si. AVG MBTI type is ISTJ.
5 is linked with Ti. Most are IXTX, average type is INTP/ISTP.
3 is linked with Te. AVG MBTI type is ESTJ.
You are definitely a Thinker type, no doubt, just based on enneagram.
Crossing 1 and 5 to create a pseudo 1w5 or 5w1, the most likely types are ISTJ or INTJ.

So, basically, best answer is INTJ.
NJ because of Big Five.
NT from cognitive functions result.
Thinker and IXTJ because of Enneagram.
Merging these, INTJ (actually, merging enneagram and Big Five, without the cognitive functions, already suggest that).

About this cognitive function order...
(Te > Ti > Ni > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se)
I generally like to call Te first, Ti second or vice versa "Thinker" type, because thinking is your most important trait, more than Judging, Intuitive or Introversion. But...
A lot of tests are based on Jung Ni, and Jung Ni is more towards INFJ than INTJ. Jung Ni is way too "mystical", and INTJ tends to run from mysticism, so for some test, specially Nardi, it is common for INTJ to get Te as the first function instead of Ni.
It is possible also to have the first and secondary functions swapped, Jung leaves room for that (thats called "Long secondary" and "short primary"). So, basically, this Ni is underestimated and might be this instead:
(Te > Ni > Ti > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se)
I have my alternative views that I can put links explaining, but Ni>Te>Ti is my approximation for INTJ stack, while Te>Ni>Ti is for ANTR, or ANTJ, R is for Rational in Jung (which does not equal MBTI). Taking the inferior function, its more closely to Se-tard instead of Fi-tard, which goes to INTJ.
Also, your back of stack looks quite close of the average back stack for INTJ and INTP (Fi>Si>Fe>Se).

This might be confusing because you are not familiar with my theorys that are more accordance with test results, but, basically...
(Te > Ti > Ni > Ne > Fi > Si > Fe > Se)
Means that your Thinker preference is the most relevant, Ni and Ne are in front of Si and Se, which means intuitive type, you are NTJ over NTP because Te+Ni is higher than Ti+Ne, and the back of the stack suggests INTP or INTJ, and, merging everything, that is a INTJ stack.

Yup, it isnt "Ni-Te-Fi-Se", although your opposing role function is Fi, which means that "tertiary" Fi, although far from really being tertiary, is a good approximation for you (and inferior Se fits perfectly). But it is quite different. No test have been able to reproduce the "Ni-Te-Fi-Se" so far, even those which tried to rig or force it a bit. I read cognitive function results ignoring entirely what people usually call "the stack", and usually have a set of alternative ideas.

Now, the analysis from the texts and questionaries.. I will leave to others this time and stick with analyzing text. I can explain deeper if you want or need (for text results). And there is the IPIP NEO which should just do some aid, it isnt really necessary but in case you want I analyze it too. And in the end I can show all connections I use (actually, I had it on my signature).

EDIT: Cut the quote.
 

Falcon112

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
65
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
153
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Hi, so I skimmed through what you wrote and I can try to give you an idea of your socionics type.

I think you seem Te/Fi valuing- you value trust, work ethic, etc. Also, your description of hating your own emotional outbursts, disliking emotional reactions, and even not experiencing emotions seems like Fe PoLR, which INTp's have. INTp's are also process over result, which explains your perfectionism, which is more than just OCD IMO. Process types generally focus more on the quality of their work than result types like LIEs. Also, you seem overwhelmingly introverted in the socionics sense- namely, you focus on your own opinions and attitudes over happenings in the world around you. You value developing your skills and understanding of processes over actively changing things in the outside world. For example, you're a fan of statistics- but in the sense that you play with them, privately and extensively, for your own private projects.
Discomfort with sensation fits both ILI and ENTj because both have Si in their Super ego block. However the LIE will experience more discomfort with Si than Fe, and the ILI vice versa.

ILIs use the functions Ni and Te together when they're most comfortable. Generally, goals related to Ni are seen as more important to them, and they tend to use Te as a tool to achieve their goals. LIEs are the other way, so they see efficiency as an end as well as a mean.

I agree with this description. I don't know much about socionics yet (especially about how the functions work in different blocks - I can only intuitively guess), but what you explained sounds clear to me and ILI looks accurate. I can see myself in the description. Are the Ego/ Superego and Id blocks linked to the Freud's theory? What is Super-id? Are there four parts because of 16 functions?
[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION]

For some odd reason I cant see attachments, so you need to put [I M G] [/ I M G] (together) and preferable to upload elsewhere so I can see it. Or do what you had done now, it worked out.

It's because I copy-pasted my post into Word multipe times. The attachments worked on my computer, but not for you. I just attached them once more. "IMG" doesn't work for attachments or I can't see how would it.

I like stats either and I know the relations and connections between Enneagram, Big Five, Cognitive Functions and MBTI. So, you could do a BIG 5 IPIP NEO with facets test, this one here:
Personality Assessor | IPIP-120 Personality Test

The quality is terrible, so I decided to write down my results here.



It looks like a good test, showing the five features in different angles. I like it. It finally explains how one can be neurotic but not having anxiety or introverted while not scared of people.
I'm glad that the results of all the tests I filled and my whole analysis are consistent, leading to a specific type and there are no inner contradiction. So I can refuse the hypothesis of being a "shadowed" ENTP?
 

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RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,843
MBTI Type
TiSi
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I didn't expect such quick answers! I came here just in case and to check (for the 100th time) whether I should edit this post once again or not. What a nice surprise :)

Thank you for your analysis! Yesterday, after my typing Pississippi attempt, I started to read about socionics. I got equally high schores as LIE and ILI. ILI's description (which is INTp, so Ni-Te - right?) was more accurate in my opinion.
Ah I see, that makes sense honestly. The point [MENTION=40991]pississippi[/MENTION] made about Fe polR was actually pretty good and something I didn't think of automatically, and that also seems relatively fitting I'd think. You could be ILI-Te or something along those lines, that doesn't seem unreasonable.
Sp/so sounds right.
About Ni - it's a deeply introverted function, so it might not be too visible. From what I read, ENTJs are more decisive and less perfectionist than INTJs. INTJs prefer thinking to doing.
My main doubt concerns the childhood. Does it sound like an xNTJ child? Maybe I was just a confident, raised with love kid or maybe my current "type" is a mask, created after school experience.
I'd agree with that, I typically have trouble seeing Ni within others anyways unless there's a disproportionate favoriting of the introverted functions (which I'd argue there isn't, since I can see your Te.

I don't typically focus on childhood descriptions, as by psychological theory your personality is not set to solidify/is largely inconsistent until around the age of 7 (give or take like... 2 years probably). Some people drastically change in personality from elementary age to teen (which is more about solidification of the identity phase wise), so I consider the later personality more accurate regardless.

This being said though, the way you describe your childhood I thought seemed almost stereotypical Te. Not to self insert, but my ESTJ brother was pretty similar actually, albeit less intellectually focused sort of way in terms of high activity level and expressiveness, so I think your behavior could easily fit any of the xNTJ types. A lot of people are making good arguments for INTJ, so you might just be that with a more balanced Ni and Te honestly.
 

Vendrah

Never-retiring Millenial
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,810
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
Yeah, by Big Five results you seem pretty much INTJ (actually, INXJ, Big Five doesnt work good for Thinking and Feeling, but there were the cognitive functions for telling Thinking over Feeling), with a high preference for Intuition and Thinking, and Introversion being minor and the preference for Judging over Perceiving being not strong.
In general, we (people) are not fully one type, I would say you have a few INTP and ENTJ traits (on the assertiveness and activity on Big Five). You also have a high artistic interest for INTJ, but not for INTP.

I'm glad that the results of all the tests I filled and my whole analysis are consistent, leading to a specific type and there are no inner contradiction. So I can refuse the hypothesis of being a "shadowed" ENTP?
That is true, I couldnt spot any contradiction.
Your NT preference is pretty much clear.
Although you did had emotionality<10th, I dont think you are under apathy and that should be because you have Te and Ti as the first two cognitive functions. Your Neuroticism is not high enough to make me bell the alert for "shadow mode". I wouldnt discard a ENTP shadow mode, but I think its unlikely.

For Enneagram, you seem on Big Five way closer to Type 5 than Type 1, I would suggest switching to 5-1-3. This table here:
enneagramandbig5.jpg

You are closer to Type 5 in I/E, Agreeableness, Openness and Conscientiousness. Your result for Big Five fits type 5 well.
 

Falcon112

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
65
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
153
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Ah I see, that makes sense honestly. The point [MENTION=40991]pississippi[/MENTION] made about Fe polR was actually pretty good and something I didn't think of automatically, and that also seems relatively fitting I'd think. You could be ILI-Te or something along those lines, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

I'd agree with that, I typically have trouble seeing Ni within others anyways unless there's a disproportionate favoriting of the introverted functions (which I'd argue there isn't, since I can see your Te.

I don't typically focus on childhood descriptions, as by psychological theory your personality is not set to solidify/is largely inconsistent until around the age of 7 (give or take like... 2 years probably). Some people drastically change in personality from elementary age to teen (which is more about solidification of the identity phase wise), so I consider the later personality more accurate regardless.

This being said though, the way you describe your childhood I thought seemed almost stereotypical Te. Not to self insert, but my ESTJ brother was pretty similar actually, albeit less intellectually focused sort of way in terms of high activity level and expressiveness, so I think your behavior could easily fit any of the xNTJ types. A lot of people are making good arguments for INTJ, so you might just be that with a more balanced Ni and Te honestly.

Maybe ENTJ, then, but I doubt it.
My Ni might have not been visible as I didn't focus much on it while describing myself - I unconscioussly used Te in order to be objective about myself, to give a description. However, I am intuitive. Seeking patterns is so natural and default for me that I rarely focus on it. Give me a few pieces of information, I'll put them on the table and see the connections. If I get Ni correctly, I see it similarly to what I placed in the middle of my collage:

MBTI collage.jpg

Like a spider's web, emerging from (or converging in) one point, with multiple branches. Like the nervous system.
I rarely have an inner monologue, what causes trouble in verbal communication. I learnt to write down my "thoughts" if I work on something, because otherwise I feel blank emptiness in my head and I either find a satisfying conclusion or, if the problem is more abstract or complex, not. It's way more effective to store the data on paper. I'm not a computer (even if I wish I was).

While Ni+Fe/ Fe+Ni allows seeing someone's emotion nad needs, for me natural is following someone's way of thinking. But seeing hidden emotional meaning through the lines is difficult, making me uneasy. While reading books, I find it hard to understand where one character sees a hidden threat between the lines, a love confession or a joke they both understand.
Many people are used to these hidden messages and are taught to look for it everywhere. On the other hand, I'm pretty sarcastic myself ;)

Yeah, by Big Five results you seem pretty much INTJ (actually, INXJ, Big Five doesnt work good for Thinking and Feeling, but there were the cognitive functions for telling Thinking over Feeling), with a high preference for Intuition and Thinking, and Introversion being minor and the preference for Judging over Perceiving being not strong.
In general, we (people) are not fully one type, I would say you have a few INTP and ENTJ traits (on the assertiveness and activity on Big Five). You also have a high artistic interest for INTJ, but not for INTP.


That is true, I couldnt spot any contradiction.
Your NT preference is pretty much clear.
Although you did had emotionality<10th, I dont think you are under apathy and that should be because you have Te and Ti as the first two cognitive functions. Your Neuroticism is not high enough to make me bell the alert for "shadow mode". I wouldnt discard a ENTP shadow mode, but I think its unlikely.

For Enneagram, you seem on Big Five way closer to Type 5 than Type 1, I would suggest switching to 5-1-3. This table here:
enneagramandbig5.jpg

You are closer to Type 5 in I/E, Agreeableness, Openness and Conscientiousness. Your result for Big Five fits type 5 well.

Aren't Fives highly open to experience, too? I read the descriptions of all 1, 3, 5 combinations and I saw that 513s are very coold headed, while 153s are concerned about meeting the others' expectation and are scared of failure.

My artistic interest is mostly focused on writing, not painting or sculptures. Somewhat on music. Many books (including mine) disappoint me, though. While reading, I don't expect emotion but an interesting approach to some subjects, something unusual, a fascinating universe and a mystery. It doesn't have to be a crime mystery, but something you want to discover, analyze, observe, understand. Extremely complex, while still ordered plot, something like a scientific theory but in fiction. Choices between wrong and wrong with their consequences. Hidden, symoblical meanings in a realistic, logical book. Small details that make this story unconventional, fascinating, interesting. Many possible explanations of the ending or parts of the story. Deep understanding of characters, rather their actions or the way of thinking and some feelings to make it more realistic. Many plot twists. Questions, questions, questions. That's what I expect from a book. I haven't read a good one for a while - the majority of books considered as valuable are focused on every day life, common problems, loneliness, love, sadness, getting older, poverty, social problems. I don't deny the wisdom given by these books, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not able to explain it better now and feel dissatisfied with how I elaborated, but I hope it was at least a bit understandable.

I'm not under apathy... well, maybe a bit, but it's caused by external factors and can deal with them. My experience of emotion is a bit disordered and I feel them all through anger, frustration, vulnerability or helplessness.
 

Legion

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Youre an INTP, i am quite sure of that. INTJs often think verbally and visually.

You lead with introverted judgment it seems, and i didnt see anything not consistent with intp in your function order or statements about yourself.
 

Falcon112

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Youre an INTP, i am quite sure of that. INTJs often think verbally and visually.

You lead with introverted judgment it seems, and i didnt see anything not consistent with intp in your function order or statements about yourself.

So you'd say Ti>Te in my case? How about Ne?

I think that INTPs are more "judging" than INTJs, faster in decision making and harsher with their judgements. Something is logical to them or not. I often focus on the practical aspect of new ideas (even the impossible ones, like future visions). Something could work out or not, no matter how illogical it is.

About Ne - I'd say that I often do too many things at once (but it could be Te as well), so I'm always busy. Well, not at the moment, but often. It's also not that I write only one book at once (as a kid I was trying to write 26, now it's 3), but I dislike it. I prefer focusing on one thing instead of many, understand perfectly one chapter of a paper instead of focusing on whole.
 

pississippi

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I agree with this description. I don't know much about socionics yet (especially about how the functions work in different blocks - I can only intuitively guess), but what you explained sounds clear to me and ILI looks accurate. I can see myself in the description. Are the Ego/ Superego and Id blocks linked to the Freud's theory? What is Super-id? Are there four parts because of 16 functions?
I think all the functions are based on Jung's observations of his patients, but they don't mean the same. There are 8 major information elements that are arranged differently in the function blocks depending on your type. Super Id elements are those you respond well to and wish you could have help with. In your case, you enjoy receiving help with Se and Fi, which are in your super id.
Wikisocion this site is a great place to get started on socionics. There's descriptions of the functions, the elements, the resulting personality types, and the intertype relations. There's a lot to look at, a lot more than MBTI, but it goes quite in depth and it's very interesting and useful!
 

Falcon112

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I think all the functions are based on Jung's observations of his patients, but they don't mean the same. There are 8 major information elements that are arranged differently in the function blocks depending on your type. Super Id elements are those you respond well to and wish you could have help with. In your case, you enjoy receiving help with Se and Fi, which are in your super id.
Wikisocion this site is a great place to get started on socionics. There's descriptions of the functions, the elements, the resulting personality types, and the intertype relations. There's a lot to look at, a lot more than MBTI, but it goes quite in depth and it's very interesting and useful!

You convinced me. I'll check it out tonight.
 

Vendrah

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I think that INTPs are more "judging" than INTJs, faster in decision making and harsher with their judgements. Something is logical to them or not. I often focus on the practical aspect of new ideas (even the impossible ones, like future visions). Something could work out or not, no matter how illogical it is.

That is because in Jung typology, the closest thing to a INTP is a Ti-dom with auxiliary intuition, and for INTJ is a Ni-dom with auxiliary Thinking. Ti is a judging function, while Ni is a perceiving one, that is why you get that impression.
However, for MBTI what matters is the outer look, meaning that for MBTI J/P is a lot more weighted on the extraverted J/P cognitive functions instead (Ne,Se,Te,Fe). For INTP, the judging side is more hidden, while for INTJ this perceiving side is more hidden as well. One problem of Jung J/P it is because its anti-dichotomial, because the 'rise' of a Judging cognitive function means a suppression on another judging cognitive function, making most people being neither a Jung J nor a Jung P but rather something in the middle, making this dichotomy very inconvenient for the test-retest rates and differentiation.
Socionics follows Jung J/P better than MBTI, although you have always to remember that INTP, INTJ... are all written in MBTI code (INTJ is preference for Introversion, Intuition, Thinking and Judging, which does not always implies Ni-dom, just look at your own case... You are a J in Jung and a J in Myers and Introvert, which actually glitches socionics).
 

Falcon112

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That is because in Jung typology, the closest thing to a INTP is a Ti-dom with auxiliary intuition, and for INTJ is a Ni-dom with auxiliary Thinking. Ti is a judging function, while Ni is a perceiving one, that is why you get that impression.
However, for MBTI what matters is the outer look, meaning that for MBTI J/P is a lot more weighted on the extraverted J/P cognitive functions instead (Ne,Se,Te,Fe). For INTP, the judging side is more hidden, while for INTJ this perceiving side is more hidden as well. One problem of Jung J/P it is because its anti-dichotomial, because the 'rise' of a Judging cognitive function means a suppression on another judging cognitive function, making most people being neither a Jung J nor a Jung P but rather something in the middle, making this dichotomy very inconvenient for the test-retest rates and differentiation.
Socionics follows Jung J/P better than MBTI, although you have always to remember that INTP, INTJ... are all written in MBTI code (INTJ is preference for Introversion, Intuition, Thinking and Judging, which does not always implies Ni-dom, just look at your own case... You are a J in Jung and a J in Myers and Introvert, which actually glitches socionics).

That's right. I just wanted to reply to Legion why I think that I'm not an INTP (in MBTI sense). As you said, the dominant introverted function is the way I see the world around me, not the way I respond to it (to do this, I use auxiliary Te). To distinguish INTJ and ENTJ I would use the tertiary function. There is a higher probability that in my case the tertiary function is Fi rather than Se.

People with Ti are focused on seeking the truth, their inner logic. I think that I prefer efficiency-oriented Te here, so INTP is unlikely. My main doubts referred to the way I acted as a child and that my current way of thinking/ "external" personality is disturbed by some of my experiences. I also wondered if I am not a Ne user or a Feeler, but now it seems unlikely, too.

You know, INTJs are often described ad reserved, cold or even rude - which isn't too accurate for me. Now I'm more reserved than a few years ago, but I'm also helpful, dutiful and do my best to be nice. It sometimes ends akwardly when I say something silly and realize it too late... but I do my best. I'm not "brutally honest", I'm honest but avoiding treating someone like a piece of junk. I'm not always on time, it depends on the situation - I won't be late to the theatre, meeting, train or job, but there are some situations in which I am. Maybe it's silly, because these are just categories or stereotypes and MBTI seems more like the way of thinking than behaviour to me, but there is so much hate about "wannabe INTJs" that I did my best to make sure ;)
 

Vendrah

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That's right. I just wanted to reply to Legion why I think that I'm not an INTP (in MBTI sense). As you said, the dominant introverted function is the way I see the world around me, not the way I respond to it (to do this, I use auxiliary Te). To distinguish INTJ and ENTJ I would use the tertiary function. There is a higher probability that in my case the tertiary function is Fi rather than Se.

I still buy the idea that you are a Thinking-dominant. Cognitive function test tells you follow both Te and Ti above all cognitive functions, and definitely not a Ni-dom. That makes you a little bit different than the other INTJs, because they are not usually neither Thinking centered and they are often described as "Intuitive centered", which is not your case. To distinguish INTJ from ENTJ I did consider Big Five mostly but also inferior Se (Se on the back) instead of Fi as inferior function.

People with Ti are focused on seeking the truth, their inner logic. I think that I prefer efficiency-oriented Te here, so INTP is unlikely.
I think you should see yourself in both, as I said, you are mainly NT and MBTI J is kind of secondary (although Jung J is pretty clear), and you definitely should have some few INTP traits relates to Ti. That is also one of the reasons I suggested you to consider type 5 over type 1 instead.

You know, INTJs are often described ad reserved, cold or even rude - which isn't too accurate for me. Now I'm more reserved than a few years ago, but I'm also helpful, dutiful and do my best to be nice. It sometimes ends akwardly when I say something silly and realize it too late... but I do my best. I'm not "brutally honest", I'm honest but avoiding treating someone like a piece of junk. I'm not always on time, it depends on the situation - I won't be late to the theatre, meeting, train or job, but there are some situations in which I am. Maybe it's silly, because these are just categories or stereotypes and MBTI seems more like the way of thinking than behaviour to me, but there is so much hate about "wannabe INTJs" that I did my best to make sure ;)

As I said, your preference for Introversion is minor.
Another way to frame what I said earlier, is that compared to the "textbook INTJ", you are more Thinker than the average INTJ (even though INTJ is the strongest in Thinking of all Thinkers, at least from what I had found), but you are less Judger and less Introvert than the textbook INTJ.
That does means partially what you had said here.

EDIT: Also, based on your Big 5 results, here are your main types from the 40 types in Big 5 IPIP Experimemental types (stronger first):

INDIVIDUALISTIC TYPE (Low A, High O)
Individualistic types consider themselves to be unique and more intelligent than most people around them. In extreme cases they might be regarded as eccentric, but in most cases they are perceived by others as complex, well-read, imaginative, and industrious.

BOOKWORMISH TYPE (Low E, High O)
Bookwormish Types are highly intellectual, introspective, self- examining loners. Although they keep to themselves, their level of intelligence and learning garners them respect for others. They are described by other persons as learned, well-read, persevering, rule- abiding, calm, and industrious.

DISTANT TYPE (Low E, Low A)
Distant Types show an active disinterest in other people. They are detached, skeptical, cynical loners who find little joy in human relations. They are described by others as solitary, depressed, worried, introverted, and shy.

Merging these 3 gives High O, Low E, Low A, which is pretty much a Type 5 description (Individualistic, Distant and Bookwormish is pretty much Type 5).
 

Legion

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Helpful, dutiful... that sounds like the Fe and Si of intp, not anything to do with intj..

I dont know what to make of what you said. I guess youre new to typology and have been building up your own understanding, but its pretty different from my own.

Intps are more reserved and still. They have a socially oriented side and can be good with social niceties. Intjs are more unaware of how they come across. They can seem rude if they dont factor the right factors in, or empathy. But they are good with empathy. Intps are the mathematicians, intjs are the computer scientists. Intp theoretical physics, intj applied physics/technology.

Anyways...
 

Falcon112

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I still buy the idea that you are a Thinking-dominant. Cognitive function test tells you follow both Te and Ti above all cognitive functions, and definitely not a Ni-dom. That makes you a little bit different than the other INTJs, because they are not usually neither Thinking centered and they are often described as "Intuitive centered", which is not your case. To distinguish INTJ from ENTJ I did consider Big Five mostly but also inferior Se (Se on the back) instead of Fi as inferior function.

I did the same thing with Fi+Se, but rather through introspective analysis than relying on functions tests.

I think you should see yourself in both, as I said, you are mainly NT and MBTI J is kind of secondary (although Jung J is pretty clear), and you definitely should have some few INTP traits relates to Ti. That is also one of the reasons I suggested you to consider type 5 over type 1 instead.

You may be right about 5. I've found my old Enneagram results and seen:

5 98%
1 77%
3 75%
4=8 74%
6 65%
9 51%
7 50%
2 46%

Well, after taking this test I didn't care about it too much, because I couldn't make wings of it. The top results were similar to each other and there was no "20%" or something lower than about half %. I took a few enneagram tests and I often had around five results above 75%.

As I said, your preference for Introversion is minor.
Another way to frame what I said earlier, is that compared to the "textbook INTJ", you are more Thinker than the average INTJ (even though INTJ is the strongest in Thinking of all Thinkers, at least from what I had found), but you are less Judger and less Introvert than the textbook INTJ.
That does means partially what you had said here.

I've heard that INTJs are seen as "strong thinkers" but I can't get why if Te is their second function. Ti doms I know have this logical inner consistency which is very visible in discussions with them. It's hard to discuss with them because they are very confident in their opinions. My primary goal in discussion is to find the common ground and explain all of the misunderstandings. Differences on the definitions level lead to really long arguments, which could've been avoided if people explain to each other how they understand the used terminology.
Ti (and Fi) is also the reason why I couldn't understand why INTJs are seen as people who hate hypocrisy instead of IxxPs. Ti wants to make your beliefs sensible and logical, Fi wants to be authentic. If it was about Fi, why not INFP? If it is about being a thinker with a highly developed Fi, why not ISTJs, too?

EDIT: Also, based on your Big 5 results, here are your main types from the 40 types in Big 5 IPIP Experimemental types (stronger first):

INDIVIDUALISTIC TYPE (Low A, High O)
Individualistic types consider themselves to be unique and more intelligent than most people around them. In extreme cases they might be regarded as eccentric, but in most cases they are perceived by others as complex, well-read, imaginative, and industrious.

BOOKWORMISH TYPE (Low E, High O)
Bookwormish Types are highly intellectual, introspective, self- examining loners. Although they keep to themselves, their level of intelligence and learning garners them respect for others. They are described by other persons as learned, well-read, persevering, rule- abiding, calm, and industrious.

DISTANT TYPE (Low E, Low A)
Distant Types show an active disinterest in other people. They are detached, skeptical, cynical loners who find little joy in human relations. They are described by others as solitary, depressed, worried, introverted, and shy.

Merging these 3 gives High O, Low E, Low A, which is pretty much a Type 5 description (Individualistic, Distant and Bookwormish is pretty much Type 5).

I was looking for something like this some time ago, when I was reading about the Big Five and was analyzing the combinations of all factors. I'd say that "individualistic" and "distant" type describe me slightly better than "bookwormish".

Helpful, dutiful... that sounds like the Fe and Si of intp, not anything to do with intj..

I can see all eight functions in me - because there are eight, not four. The main problem is how to sort them.

Fe+Si would make an xSFJ. Or, if you mean the third and the fourth function, xNTP. So I see your point, but I'm not convinced that being helpful or dutiful implies having that Fe and Si. It's the way I was raised, as the first child, to be responsible and reliable, not break promises, help if neccessary. In my opinion, what I think that I said somewhere before, these functions are about the way you absorb the reality, not the way you behave.

I don't seek a group harmony, social interaction and don't think much about the others. I have no idea what the others feel, because my emotions are different than theirs - it's something I realized relatively short time ago. When I use my empathy, it's cognitive, based on my experience or imaginations "what I would feel if I was them". I don't need a sense of belonging - this is the need I noticed in people having Fe. I'm focused on my emotions, craving for uniqueness, feeling misunderstood all the time. My feelings is something I can't understand and I want to explain in logical terms. Which is impossible, because this little chemistry in our brains is extremely powerful. They even define what you consider as "rational" - it's all based on our silly feelings or emotions. Just because I have fine sense of direction doesn't mean I'm a Se dom. Just because I keep my childhood souvenirs doesn't mean I have strong Si. If there is Si, maybe I'm an xNFP?
I'm sure that Fe, at least at the moment, is my blind spot. I don't know how to react in social situations, so I'm not assertive when it comes to strangers or distant relationships.

Intps are more reserved and still. They have a socially oriented side and can be good with social niceties. Intjs are more unaware of how they come across. They can seem rude if they dont factor the right factors in, or empathy. But they are good with empathy. Intps are the mathematicians, intjs are the computer scientists. Intp theoretical physics, intj applied physics/technology.

I partially agree. I've seen that INTPs want to socialize more often than INTJs.
Some time ago I even made statistics (well, they might have been typed incorrectly, of course) of chess players. I was curious which functions could be useful in chess. There was no statistic significance, they were compeletely various. The best chess player is being typed as an ISTP, not an INTJ, as I would expect. On the other hand, Bobby Fischer could be an INTJ. I read parts of his biography and it seems possible.
From my personal experience, the computer scientists I know use Ti. Wasn't sir Newton an INTJ? Just like Einstein? Both theoreticians.
The IxTPs I know are calmer than I am. As I mentioned, I bounce between feeling nothing and being constantly annoyed or even panicking when my plan is in ruins. It's terrible and I wish I could control them better. Or remove them.

I dont know what to make of what you said. I guess youre new to typology and have been building up your own understanding, but its pretty different from my own.

As I wrote in the first paragraph, it took me three years to dig into MBTI (almost daily) because I was uncertain of my type. I don't know everything and have many doubts, especially when I see tons of conflicting informations on various websites. You've been into it for at least twice as much time, so you are probably more experienced. I see that our understandings might be different, that's right. Might be communication or information choice as well. I don't say that you are wrong or something, but am pretty confused about myself and I think that being helpful or dutiful could be cause by many various factors, so dettached from the whole don't imply much. I might be wrong, of course. That's why I asked - I miss something and, as you see, I wondered whether I'm not an ENTP. Close to your typing :) I want to weigh all options now and make sure once and for all in order to finally stop asking myself and the others.

Of course, while typing me you rely on what I wrote. I think that knowing someone personally also gives more insight, as one doesn't have to trust my self-description. If something I said wasn't clear, let me know.
 
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