Type me!

[Kalach]

I'm saying that you do know, but that you haven't concluded. And that you don't care much either way, but that it's really fun talking about it because you learn so much from the people you talk to. Not about your type, but about how other people go about doing things.



And please, Te smackdowns? Where did you learn this FJ huffiness?

 

[Space_Oddity]

Well, would you mind taking the time to explain how you got to that conclusion and how you now think Fe is my dominant function when I was a total LOSER with people as a kid? And especially after you thought Se/Ti was my combination before???

Actually, I think he just wants to stress out how much Ne you seem to him, i.e. how totally ENFP he thinks you are, and that any other musings over it are unnecessary. I agree with him, but I like your musings, so feel free to continue

1. Planning for college, I mapped out four years of classes considering various majors and possibilities. In fact I was obsessed with this kind of planning all summer, and had a notebook comprised of notes where I would map out four years of college for: PoliSci/German double major Russian minor; Spanish/French double major, Russian minor; PoliSci/French double major, Russian minor; PoliSci/Spanish double major, Russian minor; PoliSci major German/Russian double minor; ... you get the idea. Map out: Semester 1, Semester 2, ... Classes: WXYZ, ABCD, blah blah

I know that. Totally. I LOVE making such lists and combinations, especially when it concerns something I'm passionate about, such as my future career. (I love to imagine what it would be like to study this and this etc., I imagine how I could contribute to the subject and what people I could meet there... Perhaps I'm not so interested in the practical side of it at all, as a matter of fact). Also, when I really care about something, I can stay absorbed like this for a looooong time and then even try and make my dreams come true. (And not to get lazy and withdraw as usual.) I'm an INFP, but I have observed the same thing in (certain) ENFPs as well.

2. Room: After a period of time of neglecting my room, I would make major clean-out sessions, which comprised of throwing away all the garbage and unnecessary things, things I hadn't used in the past year, organizing the current things, such as books according to topic, largest to smallest, so that it was aesthetically pleasing to the eye and made sense. Each shelf had different contents. Clothes organized according to season, sub-organized according to type, sub-sub-organized according to color.

This sounds TOTALLY as the ENFP I referred to in the Twilight thread, specifically the clothes part. She's actually my flatmate, and I saw her doing the exact same thing just a week ago. It was rather fascinating. I used to do something like that too (even though I have a very hard time throwing things away), but I've become so slacky over time that I don't even try anymore. *headdesk* The books part sounds exactly like me though - I LOVE my books, so I love to keep them in order.

3. Clean-up after a meal: I was a mafia boss. EVERYONE OUT. I can't stand having three people in an area, and everyone doesn't know wtf everyone else is doing. So inefficient. OUT! OUT DAMN IT! OUT! Let me manage everything. And trust me, everything was spotless and perfect, with gleaming countertops and faucets and stove tops afterwards. AH. Much better.

My INFP dad does something similar, too. When he decides to clean, he wants to do that himself, and in his own way. I suppose I have the same tendencies, but unless I'm forced I don't decide to clean ever so often.

4. Group work: Ugh. Bane of my existence. F-ing group work. 3/4 are lazy, and you cannot rely on them. Half the time, I just said, "Look give me everything and let me do it. You know you will get at least an A- that way." They looked at each other, rolled their eyes, nodded, and gave it to me. So they could chit-chat about boring shit, I would work, and they all got an A or A-. Everyone was happy.

Exactly my approach. (But I'd never say it so directly, as I'm usually extremely diplomatic with people.) When I get a task to complete, I turn to a huge perfectionist, I want to make it as perfect as possible, and I want to see to it myself. So I'm definitely not a big fan of group work, either. The ENFPs I know are not such perfectionists, but this trait certainly seems to resonate with the NP group.

However, I start feeling weird when I say: MBTI doesn't fit. Socionics doesn't fit. Enneagram doesn't fit. Hell, maybe *I* don't fit lol.

Well, in my opinion, MBTI generally does fit, but it isn't omnipotent by any means. (I don't know much about Socionics and I don't buy into Enneagram.) I'd been noticing that some people are kind of "made of the same ingedients" way before I got familiar with MBTI, and the MBTI groups generally correspond to the system I'd created in my head. However, I disagree with the MBTI terminology and largely even with its purpose (would make for a long discussion, but as an example I dislike how it's solely descriptive and self-explanatory, because I believe that when it comes to people, CONTEXT is everything.) And don't worry, you DO fit - you'd fit among me and my friends at the very least, if it's any comfort

 

[Little Linguist]

*breathes a sigh of relief*

YAY! Someone who can relate.

Seriously, I know I was really extreme as a kid - and thankfully I have grown up a lot and my Fe has developed a great deal due to my job. My Fi has also developed and really balanced out the Ne-Te axis that was going on, so I'm starting to get a lot of balance in my life.

Funny enough, there's a meditation thread in here. I think the time I started mellowing out a bit was the time I started meditation, which jump-started my dead Fi or whatever trait that is...and since then, I've really grown a lot.

It's interesting to hear that there are other ENFPs out there like me...

 

[Little Linguist]

I'm saying that you do know, but that you haven't concluded. And that you don't care much either way, but that it's really fun talking about it because you learn so much from the people you talk to. Not about your type, but about how other people go about doing things.



And please, Te smackdowns? Where did you learn this FJ huffiness?

Eh, well, you know, um, see, well....AHHHHH SHADDAAAAAAAAPPPP!!!!!!

Okay, in all seriousness, I see what you mean now.

 

[Kalach]

People be mocking my religion.


*humpf*

 

[Little Linguist]

People be mocking my religion.


*humpf*

Yeah, you better watch out for my humpfiness!!! Because Her Humpfiness is gonna getcha when you least expect it.

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!



/end silly switch

I do appreciate your contribution, and I must admit, your confrontational nature makes you cute. Nothing a whatever-the-hell-type-I-am can't handle.

 

[Little Linguist]

Here's a strange habit I have had since I was a kid: When I think, my eyes shift, and when I speak in front of people, I have a bizarre tendency to look at the wall, ceiling, or into nothingness at times, especially when I have to concentrate or gather my thoughts.

I wonder if anyone else does that, and how can I get rid of that???

 

[Jeffster]

Sheds some light on what?

 

[Space_Oddity]

Seriously, I know I was really extreme as a kid - and thankfully I have grown up a lot and my Fe has developed a great deal due to my job. My Fi has also developed and really balanced out the Ne-Te axis that was going on, so I'm starting to get a lot of balance in my life.

That's good to hear. ENFPs with well-developed Fi and Te (and a bit of Fe in the mix) are great people in my experience. (The first girl I described here is already wonderful in this aspect; the Twilight one would need some Fi boost in my opinion, but we're still in our early 20s, so she might be alright as time goes.) I know I still need a bit of "help" when it comes to Te, but hopefully I'm also getting better (with a little help from my friends).

Funny enough, there's a meditation thread in here. I think the time I started mellowing out a bit was the time I started meditation, which jump-started my dead Fi or whatever trait that is...and since then, I've really grown a lot.

I've recently started to be interested in meditation as well, and I believe it can be really helpful for one's balance of mind. As for me, past year has been very painful and stressful for me and I virtually lost my imagination as a result (which was just terrible), and I believe that meditation played a huge role in helping me to get it back. (I believe it could do miracles for my ISTJ as well, but he just... doesn't believe in miracles! ><;;; )

 

[Little Linguist]

Sheds some light on what?

On what type I am.

That's good to hear. ENFPs with well-developed Fi and Te (and a bit of Fe in the mix) are great people in my experience. (The first girl I described here is already wonderful in this aspect; the Twilight one would need some Fi boost in my opinion, but we're still in our early 20s, so she might be alright as time goes.) I know I still need a bit of "help" when it comes to Te, but hopefully I'm also getting better (with a little help from my friends).



I've recently started to be interested in meditation as well, and I believe it can be really helpful for one's balance of mind. As for me, past year has been very painful and stressful for me and I virtually lost my imagination as a result (which was just terrible), and I believe that meditation played a huge role in helping me to get it back. (I believe it could do miracles for my ISTJ as well, but he just... doesn't believe in miracles! ><;;; )

Yeah, I think I'll get there when I'm more fully developed personality-wise. At least I hope so.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Maybe typing myself as a child will help clarify matters. I've bolded the important stuff for people who cannot pay attention that long.

1. School: Up to the age of 8, I did not pay much attention. Of course, I followed the rules as long as they made sense, and I did not want to catch hell at home. I kind of chit-chatted with one or two friends.

After the age of 8, I saw school as a huge mental competition with others: Social interaction did not interest me. I wanted to see who was the most capable, and I put my best effort into getting the highest grades possible, which generally came naturally to me with the exception of math, which was always my nemesis. (I HATE MATH!)

Ha. I can relate to saying that I hated math. I can't at all relate to placing mental competition with peers over actually getting to know them as individuals though. I wanted to know everyone.

With regard to learning, I was very structured. I did my homework every night (with little intermissions to act crazy and rejuvenate) and basically handed in my homework assignments on time.

Can't relate. If you had to pick between being out with friends and doing your homework, what would you have decided upon?

However, I was often absent-minded and forgot my homework at home. (GAHHH!) In addition, I would forget to bring in signed report cards, permission slips, reports, etc. I did not want to upset anyone. I just forgot it.

I can completely relate to this.

Whenever we had tests, I was annoying and always asked, "What did you get? What did you get?" Of course, I pretended but the real reason was that I wanted to know if I had the best mark, and if I did not, I would berate myself and force myself to study harder next time. The one exception: MATH. Although I was unhappy that I hovered around the B/C range, I knew there was no point in investing more time. If I did not get the highest grade in LANGUAGES, I would berate myself til the cows came home.

Very academically competitive. Again, I can't relate at all.

2. People/expression: Until the age of 8, I had 2-4 friends I always hung out with. After that, I became a hermit until the age of 20 or so. Weird.

How were you with people outside of your core group? Why a hermit? What did you do to entertain yourself during your hermit years?

Anyway, I was extremely nervous and shy around others. In class, I hardly spoke above a whisper in high school. Often my teachers got annoyed and asked me to speak louder. It was kind of weird, but I was so afraid of making a mistake that I only wanted the teacher and I to hear it if I did. Usually I was right, though, which was the ironic thing.

Can't relate at all, except that I am shy as well, but only upon first meeting people, in large groups, or when I'm the center of attention. Under the age of 13, I was always in trouble for speaking out of turn, talking to my friends when we were supposed to be paying attention, etc...

The one exception: Debates. During debates about things I enjoyed, I became loud and passionate, which would shock the HELL out of my teachers and classmates. It was as if they thought, "Holy crap, she does have a voice." Some were so shocked that they came and told me so afterwards, although these same people usually pretended that I did not exist. I would research a great deal, prepare myself with copious notes, went over them in my head, and destroyed the opposition. I loved taking the side that had the least support because it held the greatest challenge, and allowed me to sort of take control.

Again, competitive for the sake of creating a mental challenge. I liked to take the underdog position in S&D too, but only because I was deeply interested in representing people who seemed to have little voice in society. I abhorred most intellectual competitiveness as a child, unless, everyone was in agreement that we were indeed participating in a competition.

Great example: Debate Gore v. Perot 1993 (or 1994, something like that) about NAFTA. 95% of the class was in favor of Gore. I was not - only I and one other student. So we were a powerhouse, as the other person was also very bright. We shook the other side to its foundations and in the space of 20 minutes convinced 2 others that we were right!!!

Was your primary concern being right and winning, or exposing what you saw to be the important issues and helping people to understand your passion and concern?

Other exception: Public speaking/acting. When I was prepared and spoke publicly, I did so with a great deal of passion and enthusiasm. It also shocked people, as this was not my normal tendency. Lectoring, drama, etc. were very interesting for me as an outlet for expression.

What types of things did you lecture about?

Family: Get-togethers. Ewww. A bunch of adults talking about lots of stuff, and I'm the only child. So they look at you as a child. I hate that. So I had to adapt into an adult in my expression so that people would take me seriously. It shocked my peers that I had such a command of language and vocabulary.

I can relate to being an only child! I loved getting in adult conversations though, so I can't relate to hating the experience of adaptation.

While interacting with some people in a teenage group at the age of 12, I confided that I felt like an 'alien', and that I could not relate to anyone, and I would really like people to explain WHY that is. Some older teenagers said, "Well, you're weird. You're, like, really smart, and you use vocabulary we do not understand. And you're 12. It's just....weird....You don't do anything normal kids and teenagers like, so there's nothing in common to talk to you about. You don't like dating. You don't like clothes. You don't like cars. You don't watch TV, listen to real music, or watch movies. You just read weird books, knit, and talk about weird stuff. It's like you're 80 or something - like you come from another time. And then, whenever you realize that, you get haughty and arrogant, and you're just not approachable." I never forgot that. It made me feel strange and ashamed.

Wow, that hurt. Some of that could be related to upbringing, I'm sure. Only children usually mature faster, so that could be another part of it.

How well do you adapt in various social environments and with different types of people now?

3. Dating: I did not have anything to do with guys until I was 20 years old. I had no interest, and I did not want to be 'distracted from more important things.' I was cold, off-putting, and flat-out rejected guys who asked me out, even if I was attracted to them. I never admitted it if I was attracted to someone because that would be admitting weakness. Many people thought I was asexual during my pre-teen and teenage years, although I had a bunch of passion boiling inside, I kept it under tight control. My first kiss was at 19 or 20, so you can imagine I did not do anything else in that direction either.

I can only relate to denying feelings for someone, and I did that twice. Vulnerability avoidance, yes.

4. Values: Since I grew up in a lower-middle class, strict Irish Roman Catholic family comprising of my grandparents (EXFJ and XNTP) and my aunt (INFP) and no siblings, I was raised with STRICT RELIGIOUS values. I was pretty much the only one of my generation in the family. My grandmother drilled me on how to react to people who screwed around with my values, to which I rolled my eyes at the time. My grandfather usually came up with crude phrases like, "Don't let a man use you as his garbage can," to which I would respond, "Ewwww!" If I swore, I was dead. So I did not swear AT ALL until I was around 20 or so. In fact, one dude asked me, "Would you swear if I gave you a dollar," to which I looked haughty, held my head up high, and said, "What do you hold me for, anyway??? There are more important things than money," to which he responded, "Eh, what about 10?" I got up indignantly and went away. I hated people who went to a CATHOLIC school and did not even know how church went "Dumb asses." or did not know the hymns "Idiots!"

Another thing I couldn't stand was an idiot. People who did not remember what we did from one class to another confounded me. People who could not make connections between classes and subjects confounded me as well.

On the other hand, I had a great deal of understanding for people who wanted to get it but couldn't. I often chocked that up to bad teaching and helped anyone who genuinely wanted to learn. But first I always asked, "Do you WANT to do this? We will have to invest a lot of time and effort, so I am happy to work with you if you WANT this. If not, there is no point." (Not always so direct, but you get the point).

I have no clue what your type is, but I had fun reading about your childhood though. Fun stuff!

 

[Matthew_Z]

ENFP in what some MBTI practitioners have described as "tertiary temptation." LL, you have some Te and I won't disagree with that. However, the role of Te plays for you isn't similar to the role it would play in a TJ. It's my impression that you use Te almost solely for organizing. From your experiences of group work, you don't seem to apt at delegating work. For you, Te is a "make myself organized" function, not a "make the world around me more efficient" function.

On several occasions, you've admitted to not fully understanding what Ne is or how it works in a person. This bit of uncertainty on functions, combined with a driving Ne desire for alternative explanations adequately explains your nonacceptance of ENFP as a typing. The tertiary Te further comes in and cites a lack of evidence for the conclusion. (not fitting models well, not satisfied with an explanation over how an extravert could be so quiet, etc.) As with all Dominant-Tertiary function combinations, this forms a loop, rather than Ne-Fi which would extrapolate on "who you really are."

 

[Space_Oddity]

^
^
EnFpFer, the fact that you can't relate to many things she wrote doesn't mean that she's not ENFP. It just means that she is not you.

 

[Charmed Justice]

^
^
EnFpFer, the fact that you can't relate to many things she wrote doesn't mean that she's not ENFP. It just means that she is not you.

Haha. You don't say? I don't even know if I'm an ENFP myself.

 

[Space_Oddity]

Haha. You don't say? I don't even know if I'm an ENFP myself.

Well, and that's it - that's when the confusion often begins.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Well, and that's it - that's when the confusion often begins.

I actually think the confusion begins with the published type descriptions and the stereotypes that follow, but it's always good to compare notes.

 

[Little Linguist]

Please allow me to address all your poitns, EnFpFer,

Ha. I can relate to saying that I hated math. I can't at all relate to placing mental competition with peers over actually getting to know them as individuals though. I wanted to know everyone.

No, I really hated math. Really. I struggled, and I did not like it at all.

Yes, I really did mentally compete with everyone. I'm not proud of it now; I think I wasted a good opportunity to get to know people. However, I always had an impending sense that if I did not succeed, I would not get along in life, and I really had a drive to get ahead of the game.

If you had to pick between being out with friends and doing your homework, what would you have decided upon?

Homework. Then friends, if I had time.

How were you with people outside of your core group? Why a hermit? What did you do to entertain yourself during your hermit years?

I was very quiet and shy to the point where I do not even know if I had a core group because I was so completely different from everyone in high school. The fact that I was so driven and not focused on people did not help, however. I took things way too seriously.

When alone, I would have a fantasy world, where I would entertain myself and have imaginary friends. I also read a lot, or would act in my room, pretending there were others there, stuff like that.

Can't relate at all, except that I am shy as well, but only upon first meeting people, in large groups, or when I'm the center of attention. Under the age of 13, I was always in trouble for speaking out of turn, talking to my friends when we were supposed to be paying attention, etc...

I can relate to that only when I was REALLY little. Otherwise, I was very focused. Too focused, really.

Again, competitive for the sake of creating a mental challenge. I liked to take the underdog position in S&D too, but only because I was deeply interested in representing people who seemed to have little voice in society. I abhorred most intellectual competitiveness as a child, unless, everyone was in agreement that we were indeed participating in a competition.

Oh, no, intellectual competitiveness was my main drive; it took a back seat when I felt 'sorry' for someone. But then it took a complete back seat. Most people cannot understand this, but when I feel compassion for someone, my Fi breaks my Ne-Te loop.

Was your primary concern being right and winning, or exposing what you saw to be the important issues and helping people to understand your passion and concern?

Yes, I wanted to be right and win. However, when I knew someone was struggling and wanted to succeed, I helped them to do so.

What types of things did you lecture about?

I debated political and ethical issues, usually in a very conservative manner. I read readings at church. I did poetry reading contests. I acted in plays.

I can relate to being an only child! I loved getting in adult conversations though, so I can't relate to hating the experience of adaptation.

Let me explain: The adaptation was not the problem. The problem was that everyone looked on me as a child BEFORE I adapted.

Wow, that hurt. Some of that could be related to upbringing, I'm sure. Only children usually mature faster, so that could be another part of it.

That could very well be.

How well do you adapt in various social environments and with different types of people now?

Muchhhhhhhhhh muchhhhhhhhh better, although I still struggle depending on the situation. I have to feel comfy.

I

can only relate to denying feelings for someone, and I did that twice. Vulnerability avoidance, yes.

Exactly.

I have no clue what your type is, but I had fun reading about your childhood though. Fun stuff!

Thank you, I appreciated your heart-felt response - it is interesting to see how other people relate to the world. I wish I had been more like you as a child - it would have made life a great deal more interesting, I am sure.

 

[Thalassa]

From what I understand, T/F is actually the last preference to form, so I'm not sure how examining your childhood will be terribly helpful in that regard.

To me you sound like an INFJ.

 

[Little Linguist]

ENFP in what some MBTI practitioners have described as "tertiary temptation." LL, you have some Te and I won't disagree with that. However, the role of Te plays for you isn't similar to the role it would play in a TJ. It's my impression that you use Te almost solely for organizing. From your experiences of group work, you don't seem to apt at delegating work. For you, Te is a "make myself organized" function, not a "make the world around me more efficient" function.

On several occasions, you've admitted to not fully understanding what Ne is or how it works in a person. This bit of uncertainty on functions, combined with a driving Ne desire for alternative explanations adequately explains your nonacceptance of ENFP as a typing. The tertiary Te further comes in and cites a lack of evidence for the conclusion. (not fitting models well, not satisfied with an explanation over how an extravert could be so quiet, etc.) As with all Dominant-Tertiary function combinations, this forms a loop, rather than Ne-Fi which would extrapolate on "who you really are."

Good point. I think I am only starting to learn to rely more on my Fi. For a long time, I felt the need for this Ne-Te loop, but now it's frustrating me because it's making me go in circles. It used to be efficient in academia - searching for options, connections, and bridges; organizing myself and processing data, being logical, etc. Although my Fi was always strong, I do not think I have used it enough, leading me to question myself and 'what I really am/want/need.' Since I have developed it more, I have become a healthier, more stable person.

 

[Little Linguist]

^
^
EnFpFer, the fact that you can't relate to many things she wrote doesn't mean that she's not ENFP. It just means that she is not you.

Haha. You don't say? I don't even know if I'm an ENFP myself.

Well, and that's it - that's when the confusion often begins.

I actually think the confusion begins with the published type descriptions and the stereotypes that follow, but it's always good to compare notes.

Since there are 6 billion people in the world and only 16 personality types, there is bound to be some differentiation among the different types.

EnFpFer might very well be a healthier and more stable ENFP than I am. She has developed Ne/Fi early; whereas I relied on an unnatural combination Ne/Te, which stifled my earlier development, perhaps.

Now that I am developing my F side, I really have grown quite a bit. Now I even show more Fe than Fi sometimes, which is really weird, and is proven by my cognitive functions:

Ne > Te > Fe > Se