Type me!

[Wonkavision]

BTW.....

ENFJs can be confused with ESTJs because they both use the "In Charge" interaction style.

Here's a link about that:

ENFJ - ESTJ / ESTP / ENTJ


LL may be "In Charge", but she seems to be more about facilitating growth in people, like a "Mentor/Teacher/ENFJ" ---not about regulating and enforcing standards like an "Administrator/Supervisor/ESTJ".

 

[Charmed Justice]

^Aren't most teachers SJs, who regulate and enforce standards amongst people? ESTJs are focused on people as well, are they not? They're extroverts.

 

[Jeffster]

sim, you don't seem to have very good "iNtuition" yourself, otherwise you would not read me completely wrong. So much of what you state in that post is completely false. Do I need to dig up the posts I have made about how reading about functions HELPED me figure out myself and fill in the gaps between absolutes in type? Why would I be on a crusade against something that helped me?

You either have a reading comprehension problem or you simply like making me into a strawman for your purposes, because I am not on any crusade. But if I were, it would be against assumptions, not functions. I have done exactly the opposite of what you accuse me of. My problem is with the people who declare that the ONLY way to figure out a "personality type" is with figuring out functions. Or people who declare that they know the set-in-stone function order of a person, simply because that person declares a certain best-fit type.

I encourage people to think for themselves and be open to learning about people, not blindly follow any one person or "system" in their approach to learning. Your assessment of me is way, way off. And I think any member on this forum who has taken the time to get to know me and my views would back me up on that. I never said any one way of anything is all that has merit, and I don't have a system and never denounced yours. Unless you are talking about the system of being condescending and declaring yourself to be more knowledgeable than anyone who disagrees with you. Because if that's what you mean by your system, then yes, I do denounce it, because I hate that crap.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

^Aren't most teachers SJs, who regulate and enforce standards amongst people? ESTJs are focused on people as well, are they not? They're extroverts.

The majority of teachers K-12 are an even split between SJ and NF. There are a relatively small percentage that are either SP or NT.

 

[Little Linguist]

The majority of teachers K-12 are an even split between SJ and NF. There are a relatively small percentage that are either SP or NT.

Should I take this time to explain that I do not actually teach K-12? In fact I do not really like teaching kids K-8. 9-13 and professionals/students are the most fun to teach because they usually want to be there, want to grow, and show the most growth potential, probably because they want to learn and know why it is necessary. So you can teach: You enjoy it; they enjoy it, and you can be creative and both sides can learn. You also see the most results for your efforts at that level, and you can engage people at higher levels because they have the ability/desire to do so.

At the moment, of course, I am teaching technical school because I must. However, the area where I have most of my expertise is 11-13; professionals learning business English, technical English, and financial English; as well as university students.

Maybe that makes no difference, but I thought it is important to know.

 

[Little Linguist]

What I want to say is: I tried teaching little kids, but I really did not like it. I will tell you why:

1. They do not want to be there.

2. There is only a limited amount of things you can do with them.

3. You have to focus on teaching the kids discipline rather than the subject material, and I cannot stand that.

4. You have to focus on more practical needs than mental/emotional needs.

5. School is too structured to allow for creativity and original ideas, which stifles me.

6. You have to work in teacher teams, and usually the teams suck, which drags you down.

7. You have to deal with a bunch of political and bureaucratic bullshit, which just weighs on me.

8. Adults know their motivations behind doing somethings; kids do it because they 'must'.

9. Adults are willing to go deeper and share their impressions; kids aren't.

10. You have to follow curricular rules, regardless of whether or not they make sense. There is so much pressure to do everything by the book, but not everyone is handled the same. It's unfair and just crap.

When you work at a private school, like a private language school, you have the freedom to make your own schedule, and teach however you see fit, as long as the results are good and the clients are satisfied.

Teaching at a private language school, I wowed my clients, motivated them and helped them (even with problems pertaining nothing to English): You saw their leaps and bounds in progress, and it motivates you to keep putting your heart and soul into something.

At the public school, however, your soul really dies a slow, painful death. If you do something out of the ordinary people tell you, "Well, you are SUPPOSED TO do that here....not THERE." When I told them, "I think it would make sense if I teach the chapter on America now since I am an American and can give them first-hand impressions," do you know what the response was? "We don't teach that here." I mean, WHAT THE FLYING FUCK IS THAT FOR BULLSHIT? When I said, "I think we should start letters now; then they can have vocabulary tests that are practical and not just translating random words but using them in context," do you know what the response was? "We don't teach letters until third term." They'd rather spend three months doing ONLY letters than doing a letter here and there, and reviewing the forms over again in practical ways. No no no they are stuck in their stupid dumb-ass fricking rut, and I could just shoot a cork into the asses of every single one of those idiotic morons.

When I wasn't on Europe - a chapter no one gives a flying rat's behind's hole about because young people hate politics (I love it, but that's neither here nor there) - I got raised eyebrows, "What have you been doing this whole time?" And I said:

"Well, let's see. I've actually been doing stuff they LIKE and can USE: Like writing cover letters and CVs and doing role plays with interviews and using the vocabulary we learn, and doing competitions to learn vocabulary words in a fun way. We've been having discussions about self-employment, making our own companies, exploring and presenting ideas. How's that for a start?"

FJ huffiness. I need to work on that.

God damn it. What bullshit. I need to continue studying and get my freaking PhD so that I don't have to put up with this nonsense anymore. I can't get a position at a technical school, but I can teach university. WHAT THE FUCK SENSE DOES THAT MAKE???? :steam: Idiots. Morons. GAH!

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Should I take this time to explain that I do not actually teach K-12? In fact I do not really like teaching kids K-8. 9-13 and professionals/students are the most fun to teach because they usually want to be there, want to grow, and show the most growth potential, probably because they want to learn and know why it is necessary. So you can teach: You enjoy it; they enjoy it, and you can be creative and both sides can learn. You also see the most results for your efforts at that level, and you can engage people at higher levels because they have the ability/desire to do so.

At the moment, of course, I am teaching technical school because I must. However, the area where I have most of my expertise is 11-13; professionals learning business English, technical English, and financial English; as well as university students.

Maybe that makes no difference, but I thought it is important to know.

Heh, sorry all of my knowledge about this has to do with American schools and not German ones. I just had to respond, because I hate to see false stereotypes be perpetrated even if they are about relatively small matters.

As for how type relates to what you like to teach: it doesn't. As a consensus we don't know your type. I mean lots of us think we know your type, but we can't reach a consensus. We're not going to be any more help to you figuring out your type then we already have been. If you want to make real progress you are going to have to do some private research about MBTI.

At this point I'm not sure who's taking this typing of you seriously and who is not (including you). From time to time a thread will pop up on a forum that kind of spins out of control into hundreds or thousands of posts, because people simply like to shoot the breeze and don't really want to feel like they have to stay on topic. This thread is heading in that direction (assuming it's not already there). These threads are sort of like a chatroom without the obligation that everyone be there at the same time. Mods hate these types of threads even though there is a real need for them, and that is why they keep popping up. Anyway I don't know if you care whether or not this thread to turns into something like that or if you really want it to be about seriously typing you. Given the circular nature of the discussion in this thread, that is the direction where it will head on its own.

 

[Little Linguist]

Heh, sorry all of my knowledge about this has to do with American schools and not German ones. I just had to respond, because I hate to see false stereotypes be perpetrated even if they are about relatively small matters.

As for how type relates to what you like to teach: it doesn't. As a consensus we don't know your type. I mean lots of us think we know your type, but we can't reach a consensus. We're not going to be any more help to you figuring out your type then we already have been. If you want to make real progress you are going to have to do some private research about MBTI.

At this point I'm not sure who's taking this typing of you seriously and who is not (including you). From time to time a thread will pop up on a forum that kind of spins out of control into hundreds or thousands of posts, because people simply like to shoot the breeze and don't really want to feel like they have to stay on topic. This thread is heading in that direction (assuming it's not already there). These threads are sort of like a chatroom without the obligation that everyone be there at the same time. Mods hate these types of threads even though there is a real need for them, and that is why they keep popping up. Anyway I don't know if you care whether or not this thread to turns into something like that or if you really want it to be about seriously typing you. Given the circular nature of the discussion in this thread, that is the direction where it will head on its own.

I don't know about other people: I never invest incredible time, thought and energy into something I do not take seriously. My time is too limited for that.

Although I do not want to anger mods, members or anyone else - and I certainly do not want to cause any upset or unrest - this matter is *really* important for me because I think it is a vital key to finding out about myself.

My focus is very external. It's hard for me to know what is going on inside myself. BUT I know I have to invest the energy into understanding myself and knowing what this all means. Otherwise we cannot grow and develop our potential, and that is ALSO very important for me.

Perhaps this argument is circular, counter- / non-productive, or even pissing off a large number of people.

If that is the case, I can ask this thread to be merged with my blog, as it is a kind of search for truth which other people may not want to be confronted with. Otherwise, if it is not causing undue discomfort to others, I'd like to see where this goes.

 

[Chloe]

^Aren't most teachers SJs, who regulate and enforce standards amongst people? ESTJs are focused on people as well, are they not? They're extroverts.

I read that most teachers are SJ and that NFs actually tend to leave the teaching jobs very often because they can't stand the ways it's done.

Teacher=NF is silly, I didn't have even one NF teacher.

also I'm in med school, and one would maybe expect it's full of NT teachers, and students, but far from it. Most (like 80%) of my teachers are above average intelligent SJ, STJs, and also students are STJs mostly, though i bet many of them would test as NTJs, i even read most represented type in med schools is ENTJs , who are actually STJs.

anyway, it makes sense LL is ENFJ too, I really dont know her, cos I read maybe 2 posts.. but I think it's bit weird to be so unempathetic, (at least from what you say, LL), towards NFPs if you're ENFJ. Maybe you're just unbalanced person, methinks.

 

[Little Linguist]

I read that most teachers are SJ and that NFs actually tend to leave the teaching jobs very often because they can't stand the ways it's done.

Teacher=NF is silly, I didn't have even one NF teacher.

Please tell me you are not serious. If you say there are not many grammar school teachers, I will grant you that. But no NF teachers??? No NF trainers??? No NFs in education? You've gotta be kidding me.

 

[Chloe]

Please tell me you are not serious. If you say there are not many grammar school teachers, I will grant you that. But no NF teachers??? No NF trainers??? No NFs in education? You've gotta be kidding me.

i never said there are no nf teachers, just that i didnt have any.

 

[Little Linguist]

I read that most teachers are SJ and that NFs actually tend to leave the teaching jobs very often because they can't stand the ways it's done.

Teacher=NF is silly, I didn't have even one NF teacher.

also I'm in med school, and one would maybe expect it's full of NT teachers, and students, but far from it. Most (like 80%) of my teachers are above average intelligent SJ, STJs, and also students are STJs mostly, though i bet many of them would test as NTJs, i even read most represented type in med schools is ENTJs , who are actually STJs.

anyway, it makes sense LL is ENFJ too, I really dont know her, cos I read maybe 2 posts.. but I think it's bit weird to be so unempathetic, (at least from what you say, LL), towards NFPs if you're ENFJ. Maybe you're just unbalanced person, methinks.

What in the name of God are you talking about?

 

[Chloe]

What in the name of God are you talking about?

I dont speak in the name of god, never ever!

 

[Little Linguist]

Okay, Chloee, that's it - OUT!!!! Outside, let's take it outside.

 

[Synapse]

I'll still think ENFP.

Although I could be swayed to the J side, your occupational endeavors aren't light foot by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I don't know about other people: I never invest incredible time, thought and energy into something I do not take seriously. My time is too limited for that.

Although I do not want to anger mods, members or anyone else - and I certainly do not want to cause any upset or unrest - this matter is *really* important for me because I think it is a vital key to finding out about myself.

My focus is very external. It's hard for me to know what is going on inside myself. BUT I know I have to invest the energy into understanding myself and knowing what this all means. Otherwise we cannot grow and develop our potential, and that is ALSO very important for me.

Perhaps this argument is circular, counter- / non-productive, or even pissing off a large number of people.

If that is the case, I can ask this thread to be merged with my blog, as it is a kind of search for truth which other people may not want to be confronted with. Otherwise, if it is not causing undue discomfort to others, I'd like to see where this goes.

Heh I doubt this thread is pissing people off or causing discomfort. But if you really do take this matter seriously I have to wonder why you continue to ask for advice in this thread when it has been so unfruitful. One common definition of insanity is "repeating the same behavior and expecting different results". This thread has progressed well past 500 posts and you still do not know your type. If I recall correctly before you started this thread you wanted to know if you were ENFP or ENFJ. That is still the position you are in right now. If you seriously want to know what type you are, then why not try a different approach rather than continue to seek advice in this thread?

 

[Laurie]

ENFJ seems like a good fit. What I see in this whole typing is "Possibilities" - you don't want to shut down any possiblities, is that ENFJ like it is ENFP?

I originally thought you were either a type who isn't good at typing (but like jeff said, you probably would have given up long ago) or someone who wants attention. I can see that it might be you also wanting to not close down options.

Wonka also seems to have some clue of what he is talking about when it comes to you.

 

[Space_Oddity]

I read that most teachers are SJ and that NFs actually tend to leave the teaching jobs very often because they can't stand the ways it's done.

Teacher=NF is silly, I didn't have even one NF teacher.

also I'm in med school, and one would maybe expect it's full of NT teachers, and students, but far from it. Most (like 80%) of my teachers are above average intelligent SJ, STJs, and also students are STJs mostly, though i bet many of them would test as NTJs, i even read most represented type in med schools is ENTJs , who are actually STJs.

I'm sorry but this is really nonsense. It's possible that SJ teachers are prevalent (and in my personal opinion especially ESTJs make wondeful teachers, because they're very structured and strict and really focused on effectivity of their work), but it very much depends on the subject. I had two INFP teachers of Literature and one of History, and they were all wonderful and inspirational. They didn't really follow 'the way it's done', they made up their own way, and it was great. Now at the uni (English and Japanese majors) I've already had 3 other INFP teachers and they were also awesomely suited for the job. Besides that, I've also head plenty of NT teachers throughout high school and uni, teaching all sorts of subjects from Physics and Geography to Literature and Anthropology and all of them were very well suited for their jobs as well. My mum is an INTJ and she's tought Czech and German for 30 years, and my dad is INFP and he teaches history of architecture, and most of my friends who aspire to be teachers are either NFs or NTs, so I really don't know what you're talking about. There is really no correlation between type and a profession, imo, no matter what the 'statistics' say.

My focus is very external. It's hard for me to know what is going on inside myself. BUT I know I have to invest the energy into understanding myself and knowing what this all means. Otherwise we cannot grow and develop our potential, and that is ALSO very important for me.

Little Linguist,

If people who know you personally, including your husband, say that you don't sound anything like ENFP and type you an ENFJ, and you yourself can identify with the profiles the best, it will be probably true, despite the screaming Ne-ness of this thread. However, there were really a whole lot of contradictions in the information you've given us. If your focus is really external and you really can't figure out what's going on inside you, it will probably mean your dominant function is extraverted judging (Te? Fe?), but just a couple of pages behind you stated that you can't figure out what others are feeling and you never liked showing your feelings to your family, which really doesn't sound dom Fe to me at all. I don't really get how you managed to get so many Fe points in the function tests with this, to tell the truth. With all this, everyone peacefully settled on an ESTJ, but then you added a lot of NF qualities into the mix and everyone got absolutely perplexed again. Your approach to teaching really didn't remind me of any of my ESTJ teachers, although it sounded very J indeed. I'd say that unless you're just pulling our leg, you're really full of contradictions, so probably such a simple thing as recognizing your 'vibe' (in person or on video) and type you accordingly would be more effective than other 50 pages of this thread.

By the way, you're really becoming to remind me more and more of Hermione Granger in HP books. She is also pretty much untypeable, because Rowling (INFJ) wanted to make her similar to how she was in her age, but threw so many ISTJ qualities into the mix that these two kind of 'merged'. The character is wonderful, but untypeable. Perhaps you're also really wonderful, but untypeable.

 

[Little Linguist]

ENFJ seems like a good fit. What I see in this whole typing is "Possibilities" - you don't want to shut down any possiblities, is that ENFJ like it is ENFP?

I originally thought you were either a type who isn't good at typing (but like jeff said, you probably would have given up long ago) or someone who wants attention. I can see that it might be you also wanting to not close down options.

Wonka also seems to have some clue of what he is talking about when it comes to you.

It is about possibilities. I am a lousy typer. I do not want attention - as I said before, if people get annoyed and this conversation should be conducted in the private sphere, I'm more than willing to move it down to my blog...

 

[Little Linguist]

I'm sorry but this is really nonsense. It's possible that SJ teachers are prevalent (and in my personal opinion especially ESTJs make wondeful teachers, because they're very structured and strict and really focused on effectivity of their work), but it very much depends on the subject. I had two INFP teachers of Literature and one of History, and they were all wonderful and inspirational. They didn't really follow 'the way it's done', they made up their own way, and it was great. Now at the uni (English and Japanese majors) I've already had 3 other INFP teachers and they were also awesomely suited for the job. Besides that, I've also head plenty of NT teachers throughout high school and uni, teaching all sorts of subjects from Physics and Geography to Literature and Anthropology and all of them were very well suited for their jobs as well. My mum is an INTJ and she's tought Czech and German for 30 years, and my dad is INFP and he teaches history of architecture, and most of my friends who aspire to be teachers are either NFs or NTs, so I really don't know what you're talking about. There is really no correlation between type and a profession, imo, no matter what the 'statistics' say.



Little Linguist,

If people who know you personally, including your husband, say that you don't sound anything like ENFP and type you an ENFJ, and you yourself can identify with the profiles the best, it will be probably true, despite the screaming Ne-ness of this thread. However, there were really a whole lot of contradictions in the information you've given us. If your focus is really external and you really can't figure out what's going on inside you, it will probably mean your dominant function is extraverted judging (Te? Fe?), but just a couple of pages behind you stated that you can't figure out what others are feeling and you never liked showing your feelings to your family, which really doesn't sound dom Fe to me at all. I don't really get how you managed to get so many Fe points in the function tests with this, to tell the truth. With all this, everyone peacefully settled on an ESTJ, but then you added a lot of NF qualities into the mix and everyone got absolutely perplexed again. Your approach to teaching really didn't remind me of any of my ESTJ teachers, although it sounded very J indeed. I'd say that unless you're just pulling our leg, you're really full of contradictions, so probably such a simple thing as recognizing your 'vibe' (in person or on video) and type you accordingly would be more effective than other 50 pages of this thread.

By the way, you're really becoming to remind me more and more of Hermione Granger in HP books. She is also pretty much untypeable, because Rowling (INFJ) wanted to make her similar to how she was in her age, but threw so many ISTJ qualities into the mix that these two kind of 'merged'. The character is wonderful, but untypeable. Perhaps you're also really wonderful, but untypeable.

Well...I'm not manipulating anyone or pulling anyone's leg. I really do want to find out, but I think it is impossible to type me.

He pretty much said both ESTJ and ENFP were cat shit for me. The best one was ENFJ, although it wasn't perfect either, it was the closest one. He basically said I was an ENFJ who worked best alone steering my own ship because the best results come when I'm not dependent on others, when my hard work comes to its full fruition.