Trump vs. Bernie

[Jaguar]

Populist discourse is preoccupied with the discovery and identification of the enemy. The adversary may include such diverse groups as foreigners, minorities, the press, or the business and/or political class.

No shit. Imagine that.

Is Bernie a Populist?

Let’s take a look at some of Sen. Sanders’s comments on social media following his recent victory in the New Hampshire primary.

In one Facebook post, he stated:

"Now is the time to have the guts to take on the corporate and financial elite of this country that controls so much of our economy and our government."

This short statement articulates Sanders’s view that business leaders and wealthy individuals are conspiring with political leaders for their own mutual benefit to the detriment of the common man.

In a separate post, Sanders declared:

"What we have done tonight in New Hampshire is nothing short of the beginning of a political revolution. Let's win this primary. Let's defeat Donald Trump. And then let us begin the work of transforming this country when we are in the White House."

This message clearly conveys that Sanders believes that a revolution of sorts is necessary to subvert the existing order controlled by the conspiring business and financial elite.

Sanders’s repeated use of the word “we” conveys that he represents the people. His denunciation of business leaders and the wealthy indicates that they are the enemy of the people. His call for a political revolution suggests that this group of people no longer deserve the rights afforded them by a broken system in need of transformation.

An analysis of Sanders’s discourse strongly suggests he is following the populist playbook

No shit. Imagine that.

Populists to the left of me, Populists to the right, here I am.

 

[Jonny]

I agree with some of your sentiment. In my belief, the only way to get things done is to inspire and galvanize others. Three candidates have this ability

• Biden
• Buttigieg
• Bloomberg

Klobachar is an outside possibility. Sanders and Warren would do nothing but further polarize the nation. For all the shitting on Bloomberg on the recent debate - it demonstrates just how afraid they are of him

@SearchingforPeace

I see that you liked the above post. What is odd to me is that up until this point I was under the impression that Sanders was among the few Democratic candidates you might support in the upcoming election. Though it has since been deleted in the great politics subforum purge, back when you started an earlier thread on potential 2020 candidates I asked you pointedly whom you might support and you mentioned Sanders and Gabbard as a few contenders. I asked you because, though you created that thread talking about potential 2020 candidates, you seemed to only post negative things about many of them...so I was curious whether you really wanted anyone to actually do well.

Now that Sanders is doing well, you seem to be posting things about how his support is weak, and liking posts that dismiss him as divisive and offer support of the other candidates you'd derided as part of the corrupt system.

What's your intention? Is your heuristic something akin to "I'd never trust or support any candidate who could possibly win the democratic nomination."?

I'm genuinely curious...would you vote for Sanders in the general election over Trump? Would you vote 3rd party/abstain?

@highlander Would you vote for Sanders, Trump or 3rd party/abstain?

@Jaguar Would you vote for Sanders, Trump or 3rd party/abstain?


Edit: Full disclosure, I'm pretty motivated by my anti-Trump sentiment now, so I'd take almost anyone over him. When this election cycle started, I was originally drawn to Buttigieg for his eagerness/willingness to bridge the divide and heal the country. Then, after listening to Warren and hearing more about her ideas and preparation, felt that she would make a great president (though I was still uncomfortable with the polarized nature of her support). Really though, I was happy with many of the major candidates with the exception of Harris and Biden. Now that Sanders is the most likely nominee (which I did not expect) I'm happy to support him too. At this point, the only viable candidate who I would really struggle to support is Bloomberg, because the likely path to his nomination is through corrupting the system with his massive spending and leveraging the spot via a contested convention. He's like the democrat's version of Trump...smarter than Trump when it comes to actual critical thought, but nowhere near as gifted politically. I think I might actually sit that election out.

 

[rav3n]

Nevada!!!!!!!!!!!! Just sayin'.

 

[highlander]

@highlander Would you vote for Sanders, Trump or 3rd party/abstain?

.

Though I like the guy, I do not support Bernie Sanders. I dont agree with his policies. That being said I would still vote for him over trump.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No shit. Imagine that.



No shit. Imagine that.

Populists to the left of me, Populists to the right, here I am.

If it was Trump vs. Bernie, who would you vote for? Would you abstain?

 

[Maou]

If Bernie actually wins the nomination, I will feel more comfortable that democracy hasn't failed. Trump vs Sanders would be epic.

 

[Jaguar]

@Jaguar Would you vote for Sanders, Trump or 3rd party/abstain?

Abstain.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Abstain.

That's what I'd do if Bloomberg won. To me they are enough alike that it becomes too hard to determine which one is better, which means that there's no point in voting for either one of them. I'd probably vote down ballot and put some kind of protest in place for the Presidential ticket. I'd reluctantly vote for Biden or Buttgieg but Bloomberg is a no-no for me.

I think you'd have a lot more people sitting out if Bloomberg won than if Bernie won. There aren't as many rich people, for one thing. That's a built-in problem with trickle-down economics, I suppose.

It's perfectly fine as far as I am concerned that your only goal isn't defeating Donald Trump.

 

[Jonny]

Abstain.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[meowington]

Populists to the left of me, Populists to the right, here I am.

In your country and political climate only a populist can win an election. Even if it's just a wet t-shirt contest.

And Europe isn't much better.

The problem isn't just politicians. It's the people too and the anti-intellectual pride that goes with it.

 

[rav3n]

Bernie's on fire and he's so right! Watch the video of his speech in Houston, if you have a few minutes.

Thousands gather to rally with Bernie Sanders in Houston | abc13.com

"We are going to defeat Donald Trump," said Sanders. "Because whatever your political view may be, the people are sick and tired of lies, corruption and fraud."

 

[highlander]

Though I like the guy, I do not support Bernie Sanders. I dont agree with his policies. That being said I would still vote for him over trump.

Actually on second thought I would probably vote for Trump. I dont support socialism and the damage Trump would do would likely to be less. The democratic party really needs someone more moderate. I especially have a problem with socialized medicine because it impacts me directly. I dont want it.

 

[meowington]

I especially have a problem with socialized medicine because it impacts me directly. I dont want it.

Why ?

 

[highlander]

Why ?

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly. I have money to buy my own insurance and want the best care. I dont want to wait for six months to schedule a procedure. Etc.

 

[Nicodemus]

Actually on second thought I would probably vote for Trump. I dont support socialism and the damage Trump would do would likely to be less. The democratic party really needs someone more moderate. I especially have a problem with socialized medicine because it impacts me directly. I dont want it.

Perhaps you can give it a third thought, because the second one is really pathetic for a grown man who could know better.

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly. I have money to buy my own insurance and want the best care. I dont want to wait for six months to schedule a procedure. Etc.

That is not how socialized medicine works! Why do you think Brits and Germans think you are all crazy for refusing it?

 

[meowington]

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly.

If I have a stroke or something over here in Europe I'll be taken to the ER and treated by a specialist asap. If I have a certain condition I'm free to consult whichever specialist(s) I want. I don't see how that's inadequate.

You do realize that Ni-dom's have a tendency for hypochondria right ? You'll be fine

 

[Coriolis]

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly. I have money to buy my own insurance and want the best care. I dont want to wait for six months to schedule a procedure. Etc.

How fortunate you have the money to pay for this. I would gladly postpone elective procedures and wait for things that are not urgent if it would mean everyone would at least have the opportunity to see a doctor. We don't dispense fire/rescue or policing services based on ability to pay, or to get someone else (i.e. insurance) to pay for you. Right now, people without your kind of money or insurance often postpone medical care or go without, allowing simple problems to become worse. When they finally do seek care, it costs more, and they still are not paying for it. People unwilling to recognize the human costs here should at least appreciate the economic wisdom of making the stitch in time.

Others who live under "socialized medicine" systems have already clarified the reality of how care is provided there.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Bernie's on fire and he's so right! Watch the video of his speech in Houston, if you have a few minutes.

Thousands gather to rally with Bernie Sanders in Houston | abc13.com

"We are going to defeat Donald Trump," said Sanders. "Because whatever your political view may be, the people are sick and tired of lies, corruption and fraud."

To be fully honest with you I haven't registered you as a "Bernie sis".

Perhaps you can give it a third thought, because the second one is really pathetic for a grown man who could know better.

That is not how socialized medicine works! Why do you think Brits and Germans think you are all crazy for refusing it?

I was considering posting that video. I should have.

If I have a stroke or something over here in Europe I'll be taken to the ER and treated by a specialist asap. If I have a certain condition I'm free to consult whichever specialist(s) I want. I don't see how that's inadequate.

I was also thinking something like this, if there is a emergency you are going over the line or ambulance picks you up. (without any extra payments)

Extra consultations can also be arranged, without extra payments as well. It isn't that I am bound to one specialist.

 

[FemMecha]

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly. I have money to buy my own insurance and want the best care. I dont want to wait for six months to schedule a procedure. Etc.

I'm on marketplace insurance with a $3,000 deductible and I have to pay all lab costs and we will see about my second doctor visit. My last plan only paid for one a year. I went a second time this year. I have no luxury of choosing "the best" doctor, but choose from those who accept the insurance. I will never have best of care and my lifespan will be greatly shortened because of it. I can't even imagine what is going to happen with nursing home care. I'm pretty much on the Sylva Plath EOL care plan.

More people are like me than you and we each get one vote.

Edit: to clarify potential assumptions - universal health care needs to be taken further than what is available now. Without the meager access given the poor they would have none. It's better than the non insurance I and others like me had most of our lives.

 

[ceecee]

If something goes wrong, I want to go to the best doctor for whatever issue it is and I want to get into her or him quickly. I have money to buy my own insurance and want the best care. I dont want to wait for six months to schedule a procedure. Etc.

Every time I hear something like these myths that have been debunked over and over I say this - Medicare is socialized medicine. Go find an over 65 year old American willing to give it up AND pay for their private insurance Part C IN FULL. You let me know when you find one because in all the years I've worked in healthcare, I've never found one.

The entire idea behind Medicare was to eventually insure everyone and if you don't believe me, feel free to look at the 1965 plans from the Johnson administration. Good for you that you have money to buy the best insurance. Most people don't. But your post is proof that health insurance lobbyists are doing a great job of being full of shit.