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Trump followers invade the capitol

FemMecha

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Lol, I also love how you guys use Trump's rhetoric against Trump supporters. This just proves that you had no issue with his rhetoric, and were just mad because he wasn't on your side. What happened to being on the higher ground? Yet so easily you mock and belittle people the same way the moment they lose. You guys are literally no different than Trump supporters. Maybe perhaps now you can accept everyone is human, and quit demonizing them?
This may be true of some, but not all. I appreciate that you hold a value of thinking for yourself and not being influenced by corporate media. Yes, all of the media, including Trump who is a media mogul, are manipulating with their presentation. Yes, the system is corrupted by corporate control and greed. Remember that one side being bad does not make the opposition good. What I see in this world is well established corruption, and then a mob boss with his own agenda attempting to usurp the system to his own benefit. There are no heroes. We need a hero, but all we have are villains and worse villains still.

The darkest timeline.
 

Coriolis

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Yeah I know, everyone you disagree with is a Nazi. Got it.
This is a great example of completely missing the point, while trying to put words into someone else's mouth. Neither contributes to constructive dialogue.

Lol, I also love how you guys use Trump's rhetoric against Trump supporters. This just proves that you had no issue with his rhetoric, and were just mad because he wasn't on your side. What happened to being on the higher ground? Yet so easily you mock and belittle people the same way the moment they lose. You guys are literally no different than Trump supporters. Maybe perhaps now you can accept everyone is human, and quit demonizing them?
Actually, it is often an indication of hypocrisy, that the group in question is willing to dish it out, but can't take it. Yes, it is much easier when one's political opponents practice unilateral disarmament, but rarely a wise choice on their part.
 

Nicodemus

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Lol, I also love how you guys use Trump's rhetoric against Trump supporters. This just proves that you had no issue with his rhetoric, and were just mad because he wasn't on your side. What happened to being on the higher ground? Yet so easily you mock and belittle people the same way the moment they lose. You guys are literally no different than Trump supporters. Maybe perhaps now you can accept everyone is human, and quit demonizing them?
What do you think Trump could have done better to convince a larger majority of the American people of his agenda and to give him a second term?
 

ceecee

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Wow that is wretched. They really have no idea what they are doing. There is a very low average level of intelligence that doesn't really know what to do with themselves. That's the most sheeple situation I've ever seen in my life.

It's one, gigantic example of the right's angry victim complex. As long as they have someone to champion them, they will generate a laundry list of grievances, real or imagined.
 

Maou

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This is a great example of completely missing the point, while trying to put words into someone else's mouth. Neither contributes to constructive dialogue.

I am simply calling out a baseless assumption. It isn't putting words in Lark's mouth. He literally said that I was believing Nazi to come to my conclusions. what part of "I would never be open minded enough to believe a bunch of Nazis." says otherwise. My previous statement was discussing my sources, so by context that is the only interpretation. But honestly, it might do them some good to educate themselves on actual nazi, because he keeps mistaking anyone that isn't a progressive liberal or social democrat as one.

You are the only one who cares about constructive dialogue here, everyone else just wants to take the piss now a days, and I am personally sick of it. So if you can't beat them, join them.

Actually, it is often an indication of hypocrisy, that the group in question is willing to dish it out, but can't take it. Yes, it is much easier when one's political opponents practice unilateral disarmament, but rarely a wise choice on their part.

Which is why I called it out, because to me it just proves my point that the Left isn't morally better in any way than Trump supporters. Different sides, same human mistakes.
 

Maou

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2011 Wisconsin protests - Wikipedia

Apparently everyone forgot Democrats stormed a state capitol, and were not called "Terrorists". Just another example of the hypocrisy.

1rdIIyf.png
 

Maou

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Yeah I remember that. They stormed the Wisconsin capitol by breaking windows and attacking Wisconsin police, killing one by bludgeoning him to death with a fire extinguisher.

You apparently forgot that capitol police shot and killed an unarmed protester first. Breaking windows and getting angry is just par for the course in protests. You can't get angry at it, especially when you completely overlook the BLM riots that cost many people their lives, businesses, and entire neighborhoods and millions in damage. They still didn't get called terrorists. Not even when a bunch of armed protesters literally took over several blocks of Seattle, which resulted in many shootings, rapes, and murders. As well as extortion of the local businesses. Where is the 35 page thread on Chop/Chaz expressing outrage? Hypocritical.
 

Jaguar

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What quotes from the rioters: "We are listening to Trump" and "I think Cruz would want us to do this." Of course. They're both wacko populists. Throw in two more populists— Josh Hawley and Matt Gaetz— you're good to go. Jump off that cliff together.
 

Coriolis

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I am simply calling out a baseless assumption. It isn't putting words in Lark's mouth. He literally said that I was believing Nazi to come to my conclusions. what part of "I would never be open minded enough to believe a bunch of Nazis." says otherwise. My previous statement was discussing my sources, so by context that is the only interpretation. But honestly, it might do them some good to educate themselves on actual nazi, because he keeps mistaking anyone that isn't a progressive liberal or social democrat as one.

You are the only one who cares about constructive dialogue here, everyone else just wants to take the piss now a days, and I am personally sick of it. So if you can't beat them, join them.
You are the one making assumptions. Imagine how differently the conversation might have gone had you instead asked Lark to clarify what he meant by his reference to Nazis. No instead you took the ball, even though it was the wrong one, and ran with it. At least you have the honesty to admit that you have abandoned any pretense of constructive dialogue. When the politics subforum was closed several years ago, it was for exactly that reason.

You apparently forgot that capitol police shot and killed an unarmed protester first. Breaking windows and getting angry is just par for the course in protests. You can't get angry at it, especially when you completely overlook the BLM riots that cost many people their lives, businesses, and entire neighborhoods and millions in damage. They still didn't get called terrorists. Not even when a bunch of armed protesters literally took over several blocks of Seattle, which resulted in many shootings, rapes, and murders. As well as extortion of the local businesses. Where is the 35 page thread on Chop/Chaz expressing outrage? Hypocritical.
As your own reference about the Wisconsin protest illustrates, breaking windows is not par for the course. There is no mention of violence or vandalism in the Wisconsin article, other than an odd scuffle between Supreme Court justices. A Democratic legislator who made threatening remarks toward a Republican apologized publicly. Of the threats of violence received from the outside, more targeted Democrats than Republicans. There seems to be some requirement or commitment for keeping the WI Capitol open as a public space, in a way that the US Capitol may not be. Otherwise it would have been fair game to cite the protestors for trespassing. They eventually were dispersed peacefully, and continued to press their case in the courts and through lobbying.
 

Z Buck McFate

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By a year in, it no longer would have surprised me about Trump doing these things; but I feel like I was blind to the reality that those in power who were trusted to stop such things would either prove entirely ineffectual or would willingly support/promote his behavior.

I don't consider it a huge victory for democracy and its structures in this country; I feel like it is simply the ineptness of Trump and followers that prevented a much larger catastrophe. (Viewing it through process/architectural lenses and systems analyst eyes. Humans are the weak link; we can simply choose to violate the processes and structures that were laid down to prevent this kind of thing. SO many of our checks-and-balances folks were actually complicit here.)


I would agree with this. I knew it would be bad, but I did not anticipate how resilient to facts and reality Trump voters and Republican congressional leaders would be. There was this constantly feeling over the past 5 years of the goals posts constantly moving, of what I thought any rational person would consider, "Ok, this is too much" constantly blown past.

This feeling is still persistent with me. It's ONLY now, with the attempted coup, that I am *finally* starting to see some pushback, some refusal to believe everything right-wing media is telling them and them reacting as I use to think people thought and felt before before 2016, but even then it's not total. I still have relatives, friends, and people I come into contact with on a regular basis who STILL believe in the illegitimacy of the election, of who STILL think antifa was behind the coup (or otherwise engage in whataboutism when the topic of the coup comes up) and that's something that while I wish I was totally numb too, I'm just not. It still hurts. It still bothers me enormously.

Pretty much any lengthy description of gaslighting mentions the consequent sense of "unreality" that it gives people. It's like feeling stunned, like what's happening can't really be happening - it is, yet the mind can't quite reconcile the fact that it's happening with all the rules of reality that previously felt safe to take for granted. It's different from depersonalization because in depersonalization the sense of detachment is typically about something that's routine and possible, it just doesn't feel like it's actually happening to the person experiencing it. But the detachment that happens with unreality is the product of confusion about something even being possible changing suddenly and drastically. A person gets stuck in "What? Wait.....what?!" mode.

There was a feeling of unreality that set in the first year of his term, where he was getting away with bold-faced lying. It started out almost innocuously, with the Bowling Green Massacre or windmill cancer type stuff, and then by the time it progressed to something far more sinister I think the general feeling of unreality had become the default for a lot of people. So I wouldn't say I was surprised about anything that happened after the first year - because I was too confused to be surprised, if that makes sense - but I was as 'surprised' as someone can be about the progression. I definitely felt outrage though, which is difficult enough to process in a responsible way (without taking it out on others, throwing vitriolic pejoratives at the people even remotely enabling it/being complicit, instead of trying to understand, etc) let alone in the throes of overwhelming unreality.

It's like, if all the sudden, porcelain stopped adhering to the law of gravity - cups, plates, whatever, just started flying off tables and out of cupboards, shooting directly into outer space (due to the Earth spinning and whatnot). We'd collectively get stuck in "What? Wait.....what?!" mode, while trying to reconcile this new impossibility with what we already know. And then when his behavior progressed into clear malignant narcissist territory and Christians were treating him like the second coming of Christ? It was like suddenly one more thing stopped adhering to gravity - as if suddenly aluminum started flying off the planet and jettisoning into space - instead of being surprising, it was more like "must be Thursday." Or when all the alleged "checks and balances" that were supposed to prevent Trump actually started enabling him: that's toothpaste flying off the planet into space, so it must be Thursday again. It's not like I anticipated the progression (of how bad things would get with Trump), but the first stuff was so disorienting that henceforth all bets were off.

Less than three days to go.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Did you guys see later this evening that the justice department has now retracted that statement?

US takes back its assertion that Capitol rioters wanted to 'capture and assassinate' officials - CNNPolitics

I had thought it was a strangely bold assertion to begin with, and suspected maybe they have evidence they can't make public yet. (I actually get the impression it's still true, maybe because HCR keeps saying that more stories/damning evidence will emerge, though I'm not sure why she keeps saying it).



They didn't get the memo about Trump only pardoning people who have incriminating information about him. They're getting it now though, and will probably somehow inexplicably not believe it (in spite of not getting a pardon for their 'loyalty').
 

Maou

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I hope being able to call out imaginary hypocrisy is sufficient compensation for leading a miserable life.

I am not miserable actually, and lead a pretty comfortable life. How bout yourself?
 

Virtual ghost

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They didn't get the memo about Trump only pardoning people who have incriminating information about him. They're getting it now though, and will probably somehow inexplicably not believe it (in spite of not getting a pardon for their 'loyalty').



More like when someone just doesn't get they are "cannon fodder".
 

Lexicon

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what was the body count?

I don’t recall anyone bellowing ‘HEADS ON PIKES,’ or setting up nooses during that [for the Vice President] in 2011, either. :shrug:
 

The Cat

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I don’t recall anyone bellowing ‘HEADS ON PIKES,’ or setting up nooses during that [for the Vice President] in 2011, either. :shrug:

Weird, it's almost like theyre not remotely the same thing.:huh:
 
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