The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Totenkindly]

What a horrible thing to say. That could harm the beef industry!

Really? I thought it would drive up investment.

 

[ceecee]

The Useful Idiot: Why We're Not Done With Trump Yet | HuffPost

 

[Virtual ghost]

So it seems he will be running again (or at last someone who will be his pawn/replacement).

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'm reading James Comey's book Saving Justice. And though I find him a bit grating (he's humble and that helps, but still exactly blind enough to his privilege to be grating), I think his profession has taught him how to circumvent arguments that rely on taking his perspective as granted. He can present arguments in a way that cleanly merits credibility needed to stand on their own. And these two pages in particular really struck me. (As effective explanations for why Trump's "leadership" is more aligned with North Korea than the U.S. Shit hits the fan in any society where leadership adheres to a "justice" that serves someone or one side unfairly - like when shitheads abuse their power to pardon personal friends left and right).

 

[ceecee]

I'm reading James Comey's book Saving Justice. And though I find him a bit grating (he's humble and that helps, but still exactly blind enough to his privilege to be grating), I think his profession has taught him how to circumvent arguments that rely on taking his perspective as granted. He can present arguments in a way that cleanly merits credibility needed to stand on their own. And these two pages in particular really struck me. (As effective explanations for why Trump's "leadership" is more aligned with North Korea than the U.S. Shit hits the fan in any society where leadership adheres to a "justice" that serves someone or one side unfairly - like when shitheads abuse their power to pardon personal friends left and right).

Having the volume turned down on him (off social media plus rotting at Mar-a-Lago) has helped tremendously with the overall atmosphere.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Having the volume turned down on him (off social media plus rotting at Mar-a-Lago) has helped tremendously with the overall atmosphere.

It really, really has. It's weird actually, I'm noticing that problems I felt stressed out about before 2017 have been resurfacing - like I've suddenly picked up where I left off on grieving about my mom's death in 2016. "She's not here to tell me that story anymore" kind of thoughts keep happening, when I see something that reminds me of her. Or my dad's (somewhat shitty) lake house - it was on my mind again to fix up so he can sell it. I can't believe it's been *four years* since thinking about this stuff. Internal alarms starting going off in early 2017 over all the bizarre, over-the-top things happening in our country (like it becoming clear we'd elected a wildly mentally unstable, pathologically lying POTUS), and the consequent sense of unreality that was causing those alarms in my head only kept growing and getting worse - leaving me stuck at DEFCON 4 for the final two years, with the last five months of it spent on the cusp of DEFCON 5.

Now that it's gone down to DEFCON 2, I keep feeling like holy shit - look at all this DEFCON 1 & 2 personal stuff that got shelved. Four. Whole. Years. ago.

 

[ceecee]

It really, really has. It's weird actually, I'm noticing that problems I felt stressed out about before 2017 have been resurfacing - like I've suddenly picked up where I left off on grieving about my mom's death in 2016. "She's not here to tell me that story anymore" kind of thoughts keep happening, when I see something that reminds me of her. Or my dad's (somewhat shitty) lake house - it was on my mind again to fix up so he can sell it. I can't believe it's been *four years* since thinking about this stuff. Internal alarms starting going off in early 2017 over all the bizarre, over-the-top things happening in our country (like it becoming clear we'd elected a wildly mentally unstable, pathologically lying POTUS), and the consequent sense of unreality that was causing those alarms in my head only kept growing and getting worse - leaving me stuck at DEFCON 4 for the final two years, with the last five months of it spent on the cusp of DEFCON 5.

Now that it's gone down to DEFCON 2, I keep feeling like holy shit - look at all this DEFCON 1 & 2 personal stuff that got shelved. Four. Whole. Years. ago.

It always makes me think just how much we could all accomplish with competent government and having the basics met. But 4+ years of this weight on the country as a whole - it's noticeable when it's off you. Someone was lamenting how Biden has had zero pressers since taking office. Good. Press briefings are plenty.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Having the volume turned down on him (off social media plus rotting at Mar-a-Lago) has helped tremendously with the overall atmosphere.

My family seems much more relaxed, which is nice.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

 

[Totenkindly]

Grifters keep griftin' -- grift on, baby

Trump's PAC has spent no money on ballot audits as he pushes his election fraud claims, but has funded his flights and other personal expenses, report says

 

[Stigmata]

Grifters keep griftin' -- grift on, baby

Trump's PAC has spent no money on ballot audits as he pushes his election fraud claims, but has funded his flights and other personal expenses, report says

And guess what? He'll suffer no political consequences for this. It is surreal -- he already gotbcaught duping his supporters into making monthly donations to his PAC when they were originally were led to believe it was a onetime payment (I think reoccurring payments tiwards political campaigns is illegal anyway, but the laws don't apply to him anyway so....).

 

[Totenkindly]

And guess what? He'll suffer no political consequences for this. It is surreal -- he already gotbcaught duping his supporters into making monthly donations to his PAC when they were originally were led to believe it was a onetime payment (I think reoccurring payments tiwards political campaigns is illegal anyway, but the laws don't apply to him anyway so....).

This is one of the more disconcerting things of modern politics to me, since I'm older and can remember times when it didn't matter as much what political party you were part of -- these kinds of violations would generally bring reprisal and punishment of some kind (although we still had our scandals), even end one's political career. It's why I feel much more on edge nowadays, because it now seems that a sizable enough group exists to undermine even a flawed punishment process. People are getting away with this crap in broad daylight.

 

[Red Herring]

The guy knows his base.

 

[FemMecha]

I like that the woman in the video is attempting to explore ways to engage a dialog. The point I have tried to make at times is related to what the man was saying. He said "2/3rds of Republicans voted for Trump and really believe he lost the election, etc.". Then he said, "It's all of them". No, it's not all of them. It is 2/3rds of them. I'm not certain how to reach that disturbingly high number of 2/3rds, but my concern and focus is on that 1/3. Who are they? Yes, it is unfortunate that many of them could have sympathies in the direction of Trump, but I don't want to presume their position.

I think there are people in the U.S. determined to maintain the conservative perspective, who have a far more rationalistic perspective than the dolts that get interviewed in the media. I think there are a lot of people not quite ready to embrace the Democratic position for whatever reason (hypocrisy issues, holding a conservative economic perspective, having an invested identity as a 'conservative', etc.) who are quietly watching the shit-show, a little embarrassed by the current Republican party, but possibly disillusioned.

I think the dialog has to start with them, not the mentally radicalized, fixated lunkheads. That 1/3 still has ego investment in conservatism and in some cases a rationalistic basis for their positions. If there is a way to listen to them, not lump them in with the lost cases, give them a platform, there might be a way to:

1) help strengthen a re-structuring of the Republican party for healthier conservative policies
2) draw them away from the radicalized group to support for Democratic policies
3) have individuals with whom a true dialog and compromise can be established.

I do not say this as a closet conservative, so it is my hope people will not force me onto that "team". I am not a group or game player. I am ideologically firmly a liberal, but reject all social group associations, so I am asking that people not question that merely because I am attempting an approach of respect for some people who are conservative. I get the problem with projecting rationalism onto radicalized people. No, they probably cannot be reached. I'm talking about reaching the ones who don't have the T-shirts, hats, and microphones, but are sitting quietly at home disillusioned into inaction.

 

[ceecee]

I like that the woman in the video is attempting to explore ways to engage a dialog. The point I have tried to make at times is related to what the man was saying. He said "2/3rds of Republicans voted for Trump and really believe he lost the election, etc.". Then he said, "It's all of them". No, it's not all of them. It is 2/3rds of them. I'm not certain how to reach that disturbingly high number of 2/3rds, but my concern and focus is on that 1/3. Who are they? Yes, it is unfortunate that many of them could have sympathies in the direction of Trump, but I don't want to presume their position.

I think there are people in the U.S. determined to maintain the conservative perspective, who have a far more rationalistic perspective than the dolts that get interviewed in the media. I think there are a lot of people not quite ready to embrace the Democratic position for whatever reason (hypocrisy issues, holding a conservative economic perspective, having an invested identity as a 'conservative', etc.) who are quietly watching the shit-show, a little embarrassed by the current Republican party, but possibly disillusioned.

I think the dialog has to start with them, not the mentally radicalized, fixated lunkheads. That 1/3 still has ego investment in conservatism and in some cases a rationalistic basis for their positions. If there is a way to listen to them, not lump them in with the lost cases, give them a platform, there might be a way to:

1) help strengthen a re-structuring of the Republican party for healthier conservative policies
2) draw them away from the radicalized group to support for Democratic policies
3) have individuals with whom a true dialog and compromise can be established.

I do not say this as a closet conservative, so it is my hope people will not force me onto that "team". I am not a group or game player. I am ideologically firmly a liberal, but reject all social group associations, so I am asking that people not question that merely because I am attempting an approach of respect for some people who are conservative. I get the problem with projecting rationalism onto radicalized people. No, they probably cannot be reached. I'm talking about reaching the ones who don't have the T-shirts, hats, and microphones, but are sitting quietly at home disillusioned into inaction.

As long as the liberal media continues to fetishize Trump voters/supporters, and continues to allow them to control the narrative non-stop, that will never happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ulting-trump-voters-their-concerns-talk-them/

I know there is a paywall, it's just another example.

 

[FemMecha]

During the six years I lived with a Trump supporter and eventual Q-Anon extremist, we did engage in debates that moderated his view at the time although I think he is now beyond reach. The time period where some moderation and dialog occurred was in the earlier phases on Trump and Q-Anon 2013-2018, so I am left wondering about communication.

There is a point of radicalization in which people are beyond reach for communication and I have a hope the 1/3 of Republicans are outside of that. It is important for a society to have conflicting views - I recognize it's important to listen to perspectives that make me uncomfortable or are unfamiliar. I also have a hope there is a percentage of that 2/3rds who are not fully radicalized but going along with their friends and family, so that it might be possible to get through a little.

Politics involve a lot of ego and identity (even in people who deny it. It is often subconscious ego investment. I did call the people beyond reach 'lunkheads', but anytime there is someone with any reasoning capacities, respect and listening is necessary as a first step to dialog. We have to find a way to not shut down communication from the other side. The first step is to start by investing focus in the least radicalized and work backwards from there. Also, actually having respect anytime it is possible and not embracing ego superiority whenever possible. As a person who grew up believing absurdities I try to remind myself I'm not above radicalization, even though I value and practice reason. Being caught in it developmentally does inspire some compassion.

 

[Virtual ghost]

During the six years I lived with a Trump supporter and eventual Q-Anon extremist, we did engage in debates that moderated his view at the time although I think he is now beyond reach. The time period where some moderation and dialog occurred was in the earlier phases on Trump and Q-Anon 2013-2018, so I am left wondering about communication.

There is a point of radicalization in which people are beyond reach for communication and I have a hope the 1/3 of Republicans are outside of that. It is important for a society to have conflicting views - I recognize it's important to listen to perspectives that make me uncomfortable or are unfamiliar. I also have a hope there is a percentage of that 2/3rds who are not fully radicalized but going along with their friends and family, so that it might be possible to get through a little.

Perhaps, but this is probably too slow solution (if it is solution at all). The real solution is finding ways how to "push" half of the people who don't generally vote to actually vote for the camp with more common sense. Because only with blue landslides you can trigger some kind of reset in the Republican party. Because as long as the numbers are around 50:50 the current atmosphere will persist.