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The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

Totenkindly

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More calls now to remove Trump's social media.
Ex-Facebook exec calls for Facebook and Twitter to ban Trump — Quartz

As supporters of president Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol on Jan 6., Facebook’s former chief security officer Alex Stamos excoriated social media networks’ tolerance of Trump’s rhetoric. Stamos called for Twitter and Facebook to “cut him off” as the outgoing president rejected election results and provoked supporters to resist the certification of Biden’s election.

It is Stamos’s most drastic condemnation of the platforms’ treatment of Trump since leaving Facebook in 2018, reportedly over disagreements about the handling of Russian election meddling and misinformation...

...Stamos, now the director of Stanford University’s Internet Observatory, was joined on Twitter by another social media veteran: Chris Sacca, an early investor in Twitter. “You’ve got blood on your hands,” he told CEO Jack Dorsey and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg. “For four years you’ve rationalized this terror. Inciting violent treason is not a free speech exercise. If you work at those companies, it’s on you too. Shut it down.”

It's unclear (aside from being douchebags) why they are so reluctant -- it's a president who has lost his bid for reelection and only has two weeks left in his term (so... lame duck), and anyone else would have been kicked off months ago, and this has resulted in bloodshed in a rush on the capitol. There's not really a good argument not to, they have a legitimate case to just kick him.


EDIT: More fallout from business now.
Manufacturers suggest Trump’s removal as business groups condemn violence
 

Virtual ghost

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More calls now to remove Trump's social media.
Ex-Facebook exec calls for Facebook and Twitter to ban Trump — Quartz

It's unclear (aside from being douchebags) why they are so reluctant -- it's a president who has lost his bid for reelection and only has two weeks left in his term (so... lame duck), and anyone else would have been kicked off months ago, and this has resulted in bloodshed in a rush on the capitol. There's not really a good argument not to, they have a legitimate case to just kick him



I just want to say that even if I agree with the ban that this could potentially trigger the real crisis. Since that we be interpreted as a coup. So this is gamble that might or might not work.
 

Z Buck McFate

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This whole family is messed up in the head. Like, how detached from reality? This is an ongoing thing with all of them. They've been able to live in their own little pocket reality.

Ivanka Trump Deleted A Tweet Calling The Capitol Attackers “American Patriots”
Tiffany Trump thought now was a good time to wish brother Eric Trump a happy birthday.

LOL. Yesterday The Hill ran some story about Eric threatening to do everything in his power (...LOL?) to make sure every Republican Senate/House member who didn't stand with Graham today would lose their next primary. I think they're similarly spineless and piggyback off daddy's reality, too weak to form their own. Except maybe Don Jr (who's too stupid to be a threat on his own, but could potentially piggyback off daddy's influence).
 

Totenkindly

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I just want to say that even if I agree with the ban that this could potentially trigger the real crisis. Since that we be interpreted as a coup. So this is gamble that might or might not work.

Yeah. Sure. After the senate got stormed by an armed crowd, removing social media access will be perceived as a "coup".

Srsly, man? What exactly is the coup here, in the mind of reasonable people?

See more fallout above. it looks like groups are starting to speak up now about canning him.

LOL. Yesterday The Hill ran some story about Eric threatening to do everything in his power (...LOL?) to make sure every Republican Senate/House member who didn't stand with Graham today would lose their next primary. I think they're similarly spineless and piggyback off daddy's reality, too weak to form their own. Except maybe Don Jr (who's too stupid to be a threat on his own, but could potentially piggyback off daddy's influence).

Yeah I saw that too. Honestly, they'd be nothing without their dad's influence. I used to think Ivanka was competent but that is now up in the air.

They definitely don't seem to operate in the normal world most people need to operate in to become successful on their own. Eric seems the weakest to me, he's like a fourth fiddle.
 

Virtual ghost

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Yeah. Sure. After the senate got stormed by an armed crowd, removing social media access will be perceived as a "coup".

Srsly, man? What exactly is the coup here, in the mind of reasonable people?

See more fallout above. it looks like groups are starting to speak up now about canning him.



That is the problem, you aren't really dealing with reasonable people. Therefore if most of the group decides that their president is in danger or silenced they will almost surely decide to act. However if you don't ban him they can get triggered by his words and decide that they will act. So it is a gamble. I am also for the ban since that kinda seem safer/better but that also has certain risks. Which may not even materialize right away but after a day or two.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Axios: Republicans consider drastic options to stop Trump

With 13 days left in President Trump's term, confidants and Republican officials are considering drastic steps to stop him, Jonathan Swan and Margaret Talev report.

The big picture: These measures include censure, impeachment or invoking the 25th Amendment — a move, long dismissed as a liberal fantasy, in which Vice President Pence would step in if Trump were found to be unable to perform his duties.

This talk is coming from current and former White House and GOP Hill aides, and Republican lobbyists and political consultants — all of whom have either embraced him or quietly tolerated him until now.

Senior State Department officials are encouraging 25th Amendment discussions along with other officials at the White House and other departments, according to two sources involved in the discussions.

The state of play: Republicans are furious with the president for what they see as fomenting an attack on American democracy, disgracing their party and invading the sanctity of their chambers on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.

There's concern about whether the country can withstand another two weeks with Trump at the helm, and what additional chaos and division could be sowed.

There's also rage inside the GOP at Sens. Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz and others whose plans to object to Biden's certification gave oxygen to Trump, the protests and the notion that Congress could be used to overturn the will of voters.

Behind the scenes: In recent days, there is a sense of futility among long-time confidants trying to get through to Trump.

He's simply not engaging with some, and while with others, he's talking but not listening. He doesn't want to hear that he lost the election to Biden, that Pence can't overturn the results, that he should help rather than hurt the Republican Party, or that he should tell his protesters to stand down.

Sources tell Jonathan that Trump has been ranting about Pence.

Be smart: There are many factors to consider before initiating any maneuver: Would it have the support to succeed? Would it chasten Trump or boomerang to make him even more of a folk hero? Would it boost or further damage the rest of the Republican Party?

A censure has little impact. Even if there were the bipartisan will for a second impeachment of Trump, there is not enough time remaining for a trial in the Senate.
The 25th Amendment route would require buy-in from Pence and a majority of Trump's Cabinet. But many of those Cabinet members also have been loyalists to the president and serve in acting capacities, so it's not clear that support or will exists.

The bottom line: No House or Senate Republican leaders are yet championing these ideas — and it's too soon to know whether those talking about them are just letting off steam after a shock to the democracy, or whether a critical mass exists to proceed.

One good thing about impeachment is that I think - if he's actually removed this time - he won't be able to run again in 2024.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't really have sympathy -- just frustration. We all knew this would play out this way a long time ago, but they kept playing their games and buying into their own lies.
 

The Cat

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I don't really have sympathy -- just frustration. We all knew this would play out this way a long time ago, but they kept playing their games and buying into their own lies.

It's like a Jerry Springer version of a Greek Tragedy.
 

Z Buck McFate

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a34ad4e3e9cfded559ee9a13966074df.png


Might have been funnier posted on 45's last day, but still pretty funny.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Honestly, they'd be nothing without their dad's influence. I used to think Ivanka was competent but that is now up in the air. They definitely don't seem to operate in the normal world most people need to operate in to become successful on their own. Eric seems the weakest to me, he's like a fourth fiddle.
6523ede8af655ff825978d1e86a10c8c.png
 

Totenkindly

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Trump banned from Facebook indefinitely, CEO Mark Zuckerberg says

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg said in a post Thursday that the social media giant was banning President Trump indefinitely, a marked escalation by a tech giant amid growing unrest stoked by the president’s social media accounts.

“We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great,” he wrote. "Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete.

Well, gawsh, Mark... thanks much for the bare minimum, finally...
 

Abcdenfp

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[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] here he is .. show himself as everything your original case was against him..
 

Abcdenfp

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I've been reading this book and have to admit it was a bit eye opening. It's basically got contributions from a bunch of psychologists, psychiatrists and mental health professionals about his mental state. Some of it is obvious bashing but other parts were, I thought balanced and fair. The portrait that emerges isn't pretty. Key themes I found are the following:

1. There is something wrong with him - Actually more than one thing it seems. A study indicated that 50% of presidents before 1974 suffered from some kind of mental illness so that's not the big thing. It's the number of things he has in combination that seems to be the concern.

2. He's a Narcissist - It turns out Narcissism seems to common among people who arise to such positions. A healthy amount of it is ok but the general consensus is that he's not a healthy type. The biggest issue that was described is that he surrounds himself with "yes men". The guy who wrote the Art of the Deal and spent the better part of a year with him said he never once heard someone disagree with him in that entire year. I think you want a president that listens to different perspectives and makes thoughtful decisions based on those perspectives. It seems he doesn't really do this.

3. He is a bully - I don't know how anyone could disagree with this. Any kind of criticism is met with sharp attacks in return and be damned with the truth. I've gotten used to it and some of the things are funny, but he's the president of the United States for God's sake. He's apparently made statements about using nuclear weapons - why do we have them if we can't use them, etc.

4. He is focused on NOW and gives little thought to the future - I hope it isn't true but several of these people say this is the case, one reason being that his actions are often destructive to himself. He reacts in the moment like a child in a schoolyard - beating his chest at the slightest provocation.

5. He is paranoid - There seems to be plenty of evidence of this. They compared him to Richard Nixon. At the least, he seems to have some kind of persecution complex.

6. He's a sociopath - At first, I had a hard time with this but the general consensus that he doesn't trust anyone and he doesn't really care about other people very much. I mean, look at this list. A number of these obviously apply.

Profile of the Sociopath
  • Glibness and Superficial Charm
  • Manipulative and Conning - They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
  • Grandiose Sense of Self - Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
  • Pathological Lying - Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
  • Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt - A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
  • Shallow Emotions - When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
  • Incapacity for Love
  • Need for Stimulation - Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
  • Callousness/Lack of Empathy - Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
  • Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature - Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
  • Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency - Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
  • Irresponsibility/Unreliability - Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
  • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity - Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
  • Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle - Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
  • Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility -Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

6. He's suffering cognitive decline - He's the oldest president we have had so it isn't entirely surprising. It does seem clear that he is far less articulate than he was 15 years ago - using words like "huge", "tremendous", the incoherent rambling sentences, etc. His father suffered from Alzheimer's and that does seem to run in families.

7. He is delusional - It seems clear that one of two things is going on. Either he is a compulsive liar or he has his own distorted sense of reality. I am reminded of Elizabeth Holmes - the founder of Theranos.

Anyway, that's what I've taken out of it so far. There was some debate as to whether he is crazy like fox or just crazy. I likely vote for the latter.

It's easy to think of him as sort of entertaining character who is shaking things up and (in my case) implementing some policies that I agree with. The key point of it all is that it's dangerous to have a person like this with their hand on the nuclear trigger. How would he fare if circumstances like the Cuban Missle Crisis occurred - or when there was a false alarm that 2500 Soviet warheads were headed towards the US in Carter's administration. Is he the kind of guy you want in that position?


called it.
 

Lark

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Historically, they're killed when they're no longer useful and before they can become a threat to the people who used them. :mellow:

Yes, that's likely too, they are a bunch of tools but I do not know what their end game is and its hopelessly vague, it always has been, any time its articulated its an orgy of violence or murder or something equally nasty but that's about it.

Its like the prison rioters who break into a food locker or something, they know full well that in a few days time they'll be back to how they always were.

No vision and no idea what so ever.
 

Abcdenfp

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"The assumption underneath all of this, seemingly confirmed by a leaked Wednesday email in which Jared Kushner’s father told a friend that Trump’s actions are “beyond our control,” is that the president has gotten untethered; there is no longer anyone at all to mediate, even in a craven or enabling way, between his impulses and those of his most delusional, violent supporters. And with his social media accounts shut down, we lack even the usual level of awful access to the pattern of his thoughts. The man who is nothing but performance has been cut off from the audience that gives him shape and meaning"
 
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