The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I do need to say one more thing: It's laughable that you both are defending the "$10/hour is livable" argument, and yet, the only group you are referring to are single, young people without kids, and especially those who take on a roommate. Sooooooo.... college students.

Yeah, that's bogus. I've lived on that and it was hard enough without kids. It was also a decade ago.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

And in Peter's situation where one ends up in a bad relationship, and is a single mom. There are many programs off the top of my head that I can think of, that provides assistance like SNAP and WIC, and Section 8..

Typically things Republicans want to cut.

 

[Maou]

Typically things Republicans want to cut.

I've never seen anything about ending the programs. Restructuring, and changing qualifications? Sure. But like I said above, if you stop the people abusing it. There would be more for those who need it. I personally support these programs, but I do think it, like many government programs, need revamping.

 

[Deprecator]

And in Peter's situation where one ends up in a bad relationship, and is a single mom. There are many programs off the top of my head that I can think of, that provides assistance like SNAP and WIC, and Section 8.

The thing is, whether it's poor decision making, negligent spending habits or wanting to have kids before finishing school and becoming financially independent, there's still no "living wage" in the universe that will protect people from the decisions that they want to make. Which doesn't mean we still can't try to help -- churches in my area won't turn anyone away, and like you said there's also various government programs specifically designed to try and reach out and help people going through tough times.

Wages have been flat for decades.

Wages have been flat decades, NAFTA was a disaster, the Iraq war was a disaster, Obamacare was a disaster, and time and time again politicians would claim one thing while running for office and then do another thing when actually in office. To this end it's rather interesting to note how, according to Highlander's NPR link, "Trump has yet to deliver on his promise to repeal and replace Obamacare." Of course, I'd be most reluctant to cite this outcome as an example of Trump flipping on an issue. It's not that Trump wasn't doing everything he could to fulfill his campaign promise, it was that the same GOP senators who campaigned on their promise to repeal Obamacare stabbed their own party in the back and voted to uphold it while in office. Obviously the left wants to encourage this behavior, at least judging solely by the fact that they then applauded this senator for being a "hero," and all while simultaneously deriding anyone who dared to suggest otherwise.

Of course the irony here is that it was this same very behavior that got Trump elected; when it came to this consistent trend of political quackery there was always going to be a breaking point where the people would decide that enough was enough. The people voted for an outsider, and now 3 years into office virtually everyone I know who voted for Trump is very glad that they did so. Meanwhile it seems that the left are in a constant state of mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, constantly harping on clear cases of hyperbole or sarcasm to try and identity lies or examples of mental illness, almost as if this trend was some sort of white flag and open acknowledgement that they can never win through fact-based discussions on actual policy.

Lowest ever unemployment? Highest ever median household income? (I'd be thrilled if ever my company wanted to give me more hours so I fail to see how this wouldn't be a plus) Campaign promise after campaign promise either fulfilled or vigorously being fought for? Obviously we still have 5 more years to go and history will be the true judge here, but at this point in terms of outcome and policy I think it's pretty obvious that Trump will easily go down as the greatest modern president in the history of the US.

 

[Maou]

The thing is, whether it's poor decision making, negligent spending habits or wanting to have kids before finishing school and becoming financially independent, there's still no "living wage" in the universe that will protect people from the decisions that they want to make. Which doesn't mean we still can't try to help -- churches in my area won't turn anyone away, and like you said there's also various government programs specifically designed to try and reach out and help people going through tough times.


Wages have been flat decades, NAFTA was a disaster, the Iraq war was a disaster, Obamacare was a disaster, and time and time again politicians would claim one thing while running for office and then do another thing when actually in office. To this end it's rather interesting to note how, according to Highlander's NPR link, "Trump has yet to deliver on his promise to repeal and replace Obamacare." Of course, I'd be most reluctant to cite this outcome as an example of Trump flipping on an issue. It's not that Trump wasn't doing everything he could to fulfill his campaign promise, it was that the same GOP senators who campaigned on their promise to repeal Obamacare stabbed their own party in the back and voted to uphold it while in office. Obviously the left wants to encourage this behavior, at least judging solely by the fact that they then applauded this senator for being a "hero," and all while simultaneously deriding anyone who dared to suggest otherwise.

Of course the irony here is that it was this same very behavior that got Trump elected; when it came to this consistent trend of political quackery there was always going to be a breaking point where the people would decide that enough was enough. The people voted for an outsider, and now 3 years into office virtually everyone I know who voted for Trump is very glad that they did so. Meanwhile it seems that the left are in a constant state mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, constantly harping on clear cases of hyperbole or sarcasm to try and identity lies or examples of mental illness, almost as if this trend was some sort of white flag and open acknowledgement that they can never win through fact-based discussions on actual policy.

Lowest ever unemployment? Highest ever median household income? (I'd be thrilled if ever my company wanted to give me more hours so I fail to see how this wouldn't be a plus) Campaign promise after campaign promise either fulfilled or vigorously being fought for? Obviously we still have 5 more years to go and history will be the true judge here, but at this point in terms of outcome and policy I think it's pretty obvious that Trump will easily go down as the greatest modern president in the history of the US.

I bet you after Trump is out of office, they will credit the next president with everything within a year of being in office. Despite them claiming most of Trump's achievements were actually Obama's over the last 3 years.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I've never seen anything about ending the programs.

I've seen plenty.

 

[Tellenbach]

Why shouldn't bad programs end? The goal should be the most efficient distribution of resources and that pretty much means privatization of most government services. New Zealand privatized most government services and its economy thrived. Look it up.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why shouldn't bad programs end? The goal should be the most efficient distribution of resources and that pretty much means privatization of most government services. New Zealand privatized most government services and its economy thrived. Look it up.

Ah. This is just one instance of a Republican wanting to do away with food stamps. There are many more, [MENTION=37565]Sung Jin-Woo[/MENTION].

 

[Maou]

Ah. This is just one instance of a Republican wanting to do away with food stamps. There are many more, [MENTION=37565]Sung Jin-Woo[/MENTION].

Okay... but how is that relevant. One person, isn't an entire party. Each side has their crazies. Far as I know, the Republicans love shit like throwing money at medicare and social security. Unless you want to discuss the viability of having charity, without the government. I am all for private charities over government ones.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Okay... but how is that relevant.

You said you never heard of it. I allowed a fellow forum member to provide an an example.

One person, isn't an entire party. Each side has their crazies. Far as I know, the Republicans love shit like throwing money at medicare and social security.

That's because lots of old people vote for them, even though they have a lot of voters who would like to get rid of those, too. Food stamps and Medicaid are different beasts and aren't thought of as being used by GOP constitutencies.

Unless you want to discuss the viability of having charity, without the government. I am all for private charities over government ones.

The discussion was about food stamps, not the desirability of private charities vs. government programs. You said that you never heard of Republicans wanting to get rid of food stamps. Turns out, all of us already know of at least one!

 

[Maou]

You said you never heard of it. I allowed a fellow forum member to provide an an example.




That's because lots of old people vote for them, even though they have a lot of voters who would like to get rid of those, too. Food stamps and Medicaid are different beasts and aren't thought of as being used by GOP constitutencies.




The discussion was about food stamps, not the desirability of private charities vs. government programs. You said that you never heard of Republicans wanting to get rid of food stamps. Turns out, all of us already know of at least one!

And I know Democrats who want to abolish Ice, and get rid of the first amendment. That doesn't mean I think all Democrats want to do that.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

And I know Democrats who want to abolish Ice, and get rid of the first amendment. That doesn't mean I think all Democrats want to do that.

I want to abolish ICE. It's not like it's even been around that long. It's existed for less than half of my life. If all those people are so dangerous that we need something like ICE, why aren't they the ones committing mass shootings?

I like the first amendment, though.

 

[Maou]

I want to abolish ICE. It's not like it's even been around that long. It's existed for less than half of my life. If all those people are so dangerous that we need something like ICE, why aren't they the ones committing mass shootings?

I like the first amendment, though.

So you want to abolish the one government system in place, that enforces immigration laws? That's like, abolishing the police or the FBI. It is an extension of law enforcement. How does that make any sense? You break the law, you go to jail. It is that simple.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So you want to abolish the one government system in place, that enforces immigration laws? That's like, abolishing the police or the FBI. It is an extension of law enforcement. How does that make any sense? You break the law, you go to jail. It is that simple.

So we didn't enforce immigration laws before 2002?

 

[Maou]

So we didn't enforce immigration laws before 2002?

Not with enough efficiency, Homeland Security was swamped. That's why it was created. To resolve the problem. In the largest restructuring in recent history.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

ICE held an American man in custody for 1,273 days. He’s not the only one who had to prove his citizenship - Los Angeles Times

ICE incarcerates U.S. citizens by mistake, all the time.

In the seven and a half years ending in February, ICE reviewed 8,043 citizenship claims of people in custody, according to figures provided by the Department of Homeland Security. In 1,488 — nearly a fifth of those cases — ICE lawyers concluded the evidence “tended to show that the individual may, in fact, be a U.S. citizen,” a DHS spokeswoman said.

That's ICE's own lawyers saying that.


Why should we support an incompetent government agency?

 

[Maou]

ICE held an American man in custody for 1,273 days. He’s not the only one who had to prove his citizenship - Los Angeles Times

ICE incarcerates U.S. citizens by mistake, all the time.



That's ICE's own lawyers saying that.


Why should we support an incompetent government agency?

Implying any government agency is highly competent. I have a strict rule of 33% competency, and it always holds true. And people want these guys to run everything.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Implying any government agency is highly competent.

Hey, we're just discussing ICE at the moment.

I have a strict rule of 33% competency, and it always holds true.

I'm not following.

And people want these guys to run everything.

Exactly why ICE should be abolished. It could help balance the budget, too.

 

[Maou]

Hey, we're just discussing ICE at the moment.


I'm not following.



Exactly why ICE should be abolished. It could help balance the budget, too.

My point is, that no government agency is perfect. That frustration you feel with ICE, I feel it with all of the government. I don't see why its feasible to abolish one branch for incompetence, when the whole thing is incompetent. I see it as, take it or have anarchy. I prefer to have some protection, even if incompetent, than no protection. Even if that means some Americans get fucked over by the government. It is not like it is uncommon in other instances entirely.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

My point is, that no government agency is perfect. That frustration you feel with ICE, I feel it with all of the government. I don't see why its feasible to abolish one branch for incompetence, when the whole thing is incompetent. I see it as, take it or have anarchy. I prefer to have some protection, even if incompetent, than no protection. Even if that means some Americans get fucked over by the government. It is not like it is uncommon in other instances entirely.

OK. I don't really think they're doing anything to make me safer, though, and they're making things a lot less safer for other citizens.