ShowerThought Thread: why people want to be intuitives

[Swivelinglight]

Because anyone can effectively notice the sensory input around them. However, not everyone can effectively notice the complex patterns around them.

 

[Gawain]

Except, not everyone _can_ notice all the things around them. Not saying that all iNtuitives are incapable of noticing details, but it is a spectrum. I can't draw because I don't actually see the world as it is. I miss too much, and it shows. I can't remember what people are wearing or even what their hair color is unless I made an real effort to memorize it for some weird reason. Noticing details seems just as much of a superpower to someone who has trouble with it.

 

[á´…eparted]

On a surface level, there is a common stereotype of "N = Smart, S = Dumb", and nobody wants to be thought of or regarded as dumb. This carries over quite widely in typology which is the core reason. It's sort of a form of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[Luke O]

Because anyone can effectively notice the sensory input around them. However, not everyone can effectively notice the complex patterns around them.

I tripped on a paving stone yesterday because I was too busy analysing patterns in my head.

 

[HongDou]

I tripped on a paving stone yesterday because I was too busy analysing patterns in my head.

Even so, being unaware and clumsy is more of a quirk (I'm unaware and clumsy - really if you own it people just laugh it off with you) while being non-analytical just makes you seem less interesting and, yes, stupid.

In reality it's not even about "being" something - it's about having a preference. S types can analyze patterns if they want to; one of my close friends here is an ISTP and while he usually has a very direct and to-the-point way of dealing with things he also can observe a lot of complexities and see farther ahead than most think to.

Although I don't think not forgetting to turn off the oven vs being caught up in dreamland is really a S vs N preference in the first place. But going off stereotypes that people can first encounter or interpret online, Swiveling is right in that people probably wanna be the big thinkers. What people forget to realize is that you can be a big thinker whether or not you're S or N. Just do you!

 

[Opal]

Well, heavy intuitives run the risk of being detached from reality, and seem to have fairly poor concrete memories. Since most schooling is structured for audio-sequential learners, the multitasking/distraction of intuition inhibits memorization, and later, recall. So I'm guessing many intuitives feel kind of victimized for being born into a system molded for sensors.

So... Intuition envy makes sense, but probably takes the benefits of Sensing for granted.

 

[HongDou]

Since most schooling is structured for audio-sequential learners, the multitasking/distraction of intuition inhibits memorization, and later, recall. So I'm guessing many intuitives feel kind of victimized for being born into a system molded for sensors.

I don't get this either. Maybe I'm not the best example of an S type, but I know INTJs, INFJs, ENFJs, ENTJs, ENTPs, and INTPs who succeeded way more academically than I did and who were way more involved in school life than I was. Actually most ENFJs I know are HUGE achievers in school. On the other hand, both of my ESTP besties struggled in school and my ISFP bestie had to take summer school basically every year. Some of my ESFJ besties also overextended themselves and spent too much time on social matters (which is also a reason why I don't buy the "school was built for extroverts" argument) and less time on their education while others went through rebellious phases.

I don't think the system was "built" for any type. I definitely understand feeling victimized by the education system, but I don't think it discriminates by type in particular.

 

[Opal]

I don't get this either. Maybe I'm not the best example of an S type, but I know INTJs, INFJs, ENFJs, ENTJs, ENTPs, and INTPs who succeeded way more academically than I did and who were way more involved in school life than I was. On the other hand, both of my ESTP besties struggled in school and my ISFP bestie had to take summer school basically every year. Some of my ESFJ besties also overextended themselves and spent too much time on social matters (which is also a reason why I don't buy the "school was built for extroverts" argument) and less time on their education while others went through rebellious phases.

I don't think the system was "built" for any type. I definitely understand feeling victimized by the education system, but I don't think it discriminates by type in particular.

Your friends' possible mistypings aside, intuitives definitely can excel in school, especially in fields they find compelling. Tons of things can influence academic performance, but the audio-sequential presentation of information is something I've always bumped up against, especially in courses that I had no previous informational foundation for.

When learning, I sort of build a model in my head, beginning with the skeleton, and fill in the flesh in the order my mind wanders. So being randomly handed flesh (sorry about this analogy) is infinitely frustrating if I don't know where it fits in the whole.

 

[HongDou]

Your friends' possible mistypings aside,

lol

When learning, I sort of build a model in my head, beginning with the skeleton, and fill in the flesh in the order my mind wanders. So being randomly handed flesh (sorry about this analogy) is infinitely frustrating if I don't know where it fits in the whole.

This just sounds like you're trying to gain a more wholesome understanding of how everything fits together. I struggle with this and I know a lot of people who also don't like being randomly handed flesh.

 

[Riva]

I think it's mostly Keirsey's fault. His work was extremely influential in putting Jung's and MBTI personality work on the map and he went to great lengths to imply that Ss are simpletons.

However, it you compare the N types against their S type counterparts you'd notice that the S types are better at dealing with life than the N types; perhaps with the exception of INTJ.

And in the end, especially as adults we eventually realize that dealing with life efficiently triumphs the ability to get lost in your head more.

 

[Opal]

lol



This just sounds like you're trying to gain a more wholesome understanding of how everything fits together. I struggle with this and I know a lot of people who also don't like being randomly handed flesh.

I mentioned mistypings as a possibility I wasn't going to explore, not as a jab at their types.

I may be misattributing and generalizing some of my problems with academia, but the forces at play always felt more important than the data points, which I found nearly impossible to memorize without anchors in a bigger framework. A lot of people seemed happy to dive in, learn something thoroughly, then figure out how it connects to the last lesson (and so on, forever). This ability to trust and work with information is something I associate with Sensing preference, but maybe I'm wrong.

And in the end, especially as adults we eventually realize that dealing with life efficiently triumphs the ability to get lost in your head more.

 

[indra]

Intuition has been replaced with thought in the world of typological understanding.

What people really wish to be is an intelligent thinker.

 

[cascadeco]

Because anyone can effectively notice the sensory input around them.

Most people CAN notice sensory input around them if they choose to place importance in it.

However a lot of people - sensors and intuitives alike - may not notice a lot of details, ie 'sensory input' around them, if they don't actually think it's of importance, or in the case of introverted sensors, if they're daydreaming and thus don't notice anything while they're thinking about stuff.

As an example -- I love to hike, I place immense value in the natural world around me; and over time, I've gotten to the point where I notice tons of stuff as I'm hiking -- because I'm into it, and also because I am a photographer. I could be hiking with other sensors - or other intuitives - who wouldn't notice half the things I see. I'm not saying this to boast, it's just a fact. People comment on 'oh, I didn't even notice that' when I might stop to look at something. Again, true of both sensors and intuitives. [To contrast / different example of the same concept, my INTP brother has come to be passionate about the natural world too, in his adult years, and he notices all of the things I notice]

But if I'm in an environment where I'm less tuned into things, because I don't particularly care about it, then I may miss a bunch of details.

However, not everyone can effectively notice the complex patterns around them.

I think on the intelligence front, less intelligent people may not be able to tie together complex patterns or put things together - less intelligent intuitives, even. I still think though this too is a matter of preference --- sensors can 'effectively notice' complex patterns, it's just most of the time they may not find it relevant enough to devote great amounts of thought-space to. Again, it's a matter of priority and where that falls into a persons' sense of importance in how they look at life.

I agree with [MENTION=25062]Gawain[/MENTION] that I think a lot of these preferences fall on more of a spectrum. There are more extremes of each, where extremes may 'sit' in nearly pure intuitive-space or sensor-space, and then everything in between.

 

[Poki]

Because anyone can effectively notice the sensory input around them. However, not everyone can effectively notice the complex patterns around them.

Lol...I have known alot of intuitive that can't do this very good. They just have a preference for caring about them. Preference does not deem being good at it. I know several clumsy S's. They just have this huge pull for S.

I also work with an ENTP and he has to rely on learning from others to pick up patterns. I on the other hand actually put patterns into affect, I just don't group them, categorize, name , or document them. I simply recognize and use them.

Honestly, understansing far exceeds the ability of pattern recognition. Because without understanding all you have is knowledge of patterns, with it you have tools that allow you to twist and morph and play with them. U know the old saying, knowledge is half the battle. It's like someone who recognizes a pattern in play so they avoid it because of the outcome, where as another notices it, understand the dynamics and what lies underneath and follows it until they feel like tweaking on thing and breaking the pattern placing them self into another pattern to control the outcome. Patterns can and will be broken, some do nothing but break it to prove it can be broken but majority of life they are following the pattern, others take control and use patterns when they want and break them when they want, not to prove a point, but to take control of life and not let it control them.

 

[Poki]

Intuition has been replaced with thought in the world of typological understanding.

What people really wish to be is an intelligent thinker.

Lol, shhhh....we gotta let the Ns think they are all that, that S is just noticing the surroundings. You must be an N for noticing the pattern...I should bow down to your awesomeness that is pattern recognition and your ability to step outside the standard and notice un-common knowledge and possibilities.

 

[Cellmold]

I need it for my ego.

I've got nothing else going for me!

 

[violet_crown]

No one cares about MBTI except people on internet MBTI forums and little old ladies in HR.

 

[Bush]

Anyone can procrastinate. It takes a real conscientious mind to fulfill one's obligations.

Anyone can spend some time alone. It takes a special talent to take on social situations with ease and finesse.

And so on.


... yeah...

 

[Poki]

Anyone can procrastinate. It takes a real conscientious mind to fulfill one's obligations.

Anyone can spend some time alone. It takes a special talent to take on social situations with ease and finesse.

And so on.


... yeah...

Lol...yeah...except I know social people who can't handle introverts worth a crap. They try everything they can to pull us out and its just that we don't want to be pulled out. Plus there are many people who go stir crazy if they are not social. Put them around an introvert that is reserved and quiet and they don't know what to do, they have to talk.

 

[Swivelinglight]

Lol...yeah...except I know social people who can't handle introverts worth a crap. They try everything they can to pull us out and its just that we don't want to be pulled out. Plus there are many people who go stir crazy if they are not social. Put them around an introvert that is reserved and quiet and they don't know what to do, they have to talk.

Poki, i think JSC was sarcastically exaggerating the idea presented in my post as a way of dismissing it. I dont blame you for missing this complex pattern though, because you're a sensor