[Traditional Enneagram] Sakinorva Alternative Enneagram

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Surprisingly, the enneagram has some Google Scholar article as I said before. There is evidence for the enneagram to be as respectable as Big 5 and MBTI, but thats for the 9 types enneagram. One of the articles did the same observation as I did (they measured what are the trend for other wings which arent the main) and the wings werent properly working (but the 9 types were). People with 9, for example, were not getting 1 and 8 in 2nd and 3rd. However, I didnt read that data with tritype theory in mind, so I dont know if that data goes against or in favor of tritype theory.

That is interesting about the article.

I'm not sure what the data suggest either, although I find them unsurprising. I don't know of anyone who tests both of their wings at the top--I typically test with the positive outlook types (2, 7, 9) at the very bottom, despite being connected to all three. The tests assess how we identify, and wings are typically repressed from conscious identification--meaning you need deeper study to really become aware of it. (Incidentally, I never test as my core type either, lol.)

About the enneagram history, thats quite interesting. I did a quick read that I dont remember much, but as far as I remember the enneagram was passed based on traditions somewhere in middle-east, and it was imported to America only in the 80´s. It should be the oldest typology from the typology triad (Big 5, MBTI, Enneagram). It doesnt really have a known creator or a list of creators, but I wouldnt be surprised if there is one institute "controlling" the "official" theory.

There isn't an institute controlling the theory, and there isn't even agreement between some schools of thought. There IS an overall consensus as to what the types are and as to the overall functioning of the system. It's intended for inner exploration, so the theory is only as useful as it applies to you.

No one is totally sure of its origins; we know that Gurdjieff used it as part of his teachings; this was later passed to Ichazo and from him to Naranjo, who put it in its modern form. He'd be the closest we have to an institute that controls the theory, and he is now dead. If you're interested in the topic of its origins, a there's a scholarly book exploring this by Fatima Fernandez Christlieb. I regret that I left my copy thousands of miles away without having finished it, so cannot make a recommendation.

 

[Vendrah]

But you're disagreement/skepticism is valid here honestly.

Lets say that I have a Radical Doubt about this (for the wings... and for tri-type).

I read [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] stuff [MENTION=18576]The Tsarevich[/MENTION] post. None of the sources actually show proper research, one just mentioned some without linking them.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

Lets say that I have a Radical Doubt about this (for the wings... and for tri-type).

I read [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] stuff [MENTION=18576]The Tsarevich[/MENTION] post. None of the sources actually show proper research, one just mentioned some without linking them.

This was more acknowledging your skepticism rather than agreeing with you. I still stand by wing theory (and tritype theory, to a lesser degree) by the definitions I've seen, I just understand why you don't trust it.

The issue with looking for actual papers regarding this is that the enneagram, like many of the other typology theories, are considered to be psuedoscience. Enneagram, in addition to that, is primarily considered a philosophical theory that has, in the past, been linked to religion. You aren't going to find many serious academic papers regarding study on the enneagram itself, specifically those that have a decent amount of citations because very few scientists are going to waste their time studying a theory no one really considers practically valid outside of philosophy and personal growth. It's also tough since testing methods are often considered faulty due to the fact that most people don't have the level of self knowledge to ensure correct typing. The most widely used resources are the books themselves, which can be found online (sometimes legally, sometimes not, if you have a discord or a disposable email account I could probably share some of the ones I have with you for free, though I understand if that isn't a comfortable thing) and in libraries. Much study has gone into the theory and adaption of it, so it would probably be best if you went to the direct sources if you don't understand or trust the composition of the theory.

 

[Vendrah]

This was more acknowledging your skepticism rather than agreeing with you. I still stand by wing theory (and tritype theory, to a lesser degree) by the definitions I've seen, I just understand why you don't trust it.

The issue with looking for actual papers regarding this is that the enneagram, like many of the other typology theories, are considered to be psuedoscience. Enneagram, in addition to that, is primarily considered a philosophical theory that has, in the past, been linked to religion. You aren't going to find many serious academic papers regarding study on the enneagram itself, specifically those that have a decent amount of citations because very few scientists are going to waste their time studying a theory no one really considers practically valid outside of philosophy and personal growth. It's also tough since testing methods are often considered faulty due to the fact that most people don't have the level of self knowledge to ensure correct typing. The most widely used resources are the books themselves, which can be found online (sometimes legally, sometimes not, if you have a discord or a disposable email account I could probably share some of the ones I have with you for free, though I understand if that isn't a comfortable thing) and in libraries. Much study has gone into the theory and adaption of it, so it would probably be best if you went to the direct sources if you don't understand or trust the composition of the theory.

I get it =).

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Lets say that I have a Radical Doubt about this (for the wings... and for tri-type). I read [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] stuff [MENTION=18576]The Tsarevich[/MENTION] post. None of the sources actually show proper research, one just mentioned some without linking them.

If you're looking for hard, scientific research published in a peer reviewed journal, personality theory is going to disappoint.

 

[Vendrah]

If you're looking for hard, scientific research published in a peer reviewed journal, personality theory is going to disappoint.

Hard no, soft perhaps.
There are a few for the 9 types enneagram.

I also look into test results, these are good indicators. From the few enneagram I minded to look, there were no sign of the wings.

 

[Voygazer]

Yes, I don't think the alternate wings make any sense at all.

You could look at them as tritype combos...
I do like 2w9: The Lover
3w7: The Charismatic
9w2: The Peacemaker
9w5: The Wizard

They have 9w8 as The Cat! [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION]

but 6w7 as "the hitler youth"? Ouch.

My actual Enneagram is 6w7 and I'm offended by this... Seriously wtf?

 

[Opal Star]

I think that I would be 1w3 according to this system.