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Cognitive functions stacking confusion

shecelmis

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Jan 5, 2023
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I'm quite confused about my cognitive functions stacking because it doesn't seem to make sense.
I know taking just one test is not enough so I took several, the results were are follows:
  • Keys2cognition: Ni=Fi>Fe=Si>Te>Ti=Se>Ne;
  • Mistype Investigator: Ni>Fi>Si>Fe>Te>Se>Ti>Ne;
  • Sakinorva: Ni>Fi>Ne>Si>Se=Ti>Fe>Te ;
  • Jung's igloo: Ni>Fi=Ti>Ne=Si>Te>Fe=Se ;
  • IDRlabs: Se>Ni>Fi=Si>Ne>Fe>Te>Ti;
  • Michaelcaloz test: Ni>Te>Fi>Ne>Ti>Fe=Se=Si.

So as you can see, what's consistent with most test results is that Ni and Fi are the functions I use the most, while everything else is a mess and just not consistent.
I do agree that I use Ni and Fi the most, which makes no sense in mbti theory because there's supposed to be a second extroverted function in between the two of them, and I can't just pinpoint which one it is. I know that the possibilities are either Te, Fe or Se; Te is the one I can most easily rule out because I don't really show it in my everyday behavior, as for Fe I have a weird relationship with it because I am indeed good at understanding people and just seem to instinctively know how they feel without them having to tell me anything, but I don't really see myself in the Fe-user stereotype, and I actually kind of despise it (I must also add that I became capable of understanding other people so easily during my early teens, when I was a kid I had a lot of trouble understanding what others might be thinking or feeling). As for Se, I admit that I thought for a long time that I could be an isfp in a Fi-Ni loop, but I realize now that it makes no sense because a loop is supposed to be something temporary and not something lasting for someone's whole life, as well as because I don't really see myself in the inf-Te related problems. I think if anything, the periods in which I seemed to use Se are sporadic and chaotic more than anything else, because on a daily basis my Se is pretty much nonexistent, as much as it pains me to admit so.
As for other cognitive functions, I would say that my Ti is decent, while I don't really know about my Si, and I don't seem to use Ne much at all, and Ne users are the people I have most troubles understanding, we just seem to think in completely different ways.
What mbti type would fit best someone who has Ni and Fi as their strongest functions? I can't seem to make any sense of this.
I don't know if this can help, but in enneagram I'm a 4w5 (415 or 451) so/sx. I've been told by someone I know who's kind of an expert in mbti that I could be an infj that appears to have a high Fi due to core 4, but I'm not really convinced because type 4 and Fi are not really the same, plus as I said before I don't really see myself in the "typical" infj descriptions nor in the Fe-user ones at all, and as I said before, I kind of dislike the idea of being like that.
What are your opinions on this?
 

AdamK

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If you're very introverted, you might have mistaken Ni for Ne, because you can't see the extroverted side of your personality very easily. This happened to me. Online tests are notoriously inaccurate. For me, reading about the cognitive functions, watching interviews with people of different personality types, and figuring it out for myself worked better. Si seems to be higher up than Se on the list, with Se pretty much at the bottom on some, like Keys2Cognition and Michaelcaloz. I don't know much about the enneagram. If you can identify three cognitive functions on your functioning stack, then you're probably just wrong about what the remaining one is. Then it's just a matter of working out the order, and you only really need to know the 1st and 3rd or the 2nd and 4th for that, since they're always in opposites. Those are my thoughts, but I can't know for 100% sure.
 

shecelmis

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If you're very introverted, you might have mistaken Ni for Ne, because you can't see the extroverted side of your personality very easily. This happened to me. Online tests are notoriously inaccurate. For me, reading about the cognitive functions, watching interviews with people of different personality types, and figuring it out for myself worked better. Si seems to be higher up than Se on the list, with Se pretty much at the bottom on some, like Keys2Cognition and Michaelcaloz. I don't know much about the enneagram. If you can identify three cognitive functions on your functioning stack, then you're probably just wrong about what the remaining one is. Then it's just a matter of working out the order, and you only really need to know the 1st and 3rd or the 2nd and 4th for that, since they're always in opposites. Those are my thoughts, but I can't know for 100% sure.

I really don't see any Ne in myself though. I don't consider possibilities and find it hard to consider different scenarios and points of view, as I know instinctively which one is the right course of action/idea/etc. and focus on that. In general I have a hard time interacting with Ne users and understanding them, they're the type of people I find it hardest to get along with because we just seem to think in such different ways, they think I'm stuck in my ways and too serious while many of them feel impractical and undecided to me (not saying that this behavior is necessarily wrong, I just find it really hard to be on the same page as them).
That's why I'm pretty sure I'm no Ne user.
 

SearchingforPeace

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How old are you, roughly? Teen, young adult, or middle age?

Function develop is an interesting topic and isn't simple.

What does Ni mean to you?

How are you when you are at your worst?

As to loops, Dario Nardi did a Ask Me Anything on the forum awhile back, he confirmed that anyone who has experienced severe trauma may be locked into unbalanced functions.
 
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shecelmis

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How old are you, roughly? Teen, young adult, or middle age?

Function develop is an interesting topic and isn't simple.

What does Ni mean to you?

How are you when you are at your worst?

As to loops, Dario Nardi did a Ask Me Anything on the forum awhile back, he confirmed that anyone who has experienced severe trauma may be locked into unbalanced functions.
I am 25.

I can't really explain in words what Ni means to me, it's such an unconscious and automatic thing for me that I find hard to put into rational terms. I would say that for me it's "just knowing", without any apparent reason or supporting evidence from the outside, but I believe in this apparently baseless assumptions completely. What I do when I need to prove my point to the outside is look for clues that confirm it, which basically mean that, moving from the assumption I believe 100% it's true, I look for outside details that confirm it when I need to convince others.

When I'm at my worst I get very angry and bitter, isolate myself from everyone meaningful and at the same time look for "cheap thrills" from people I am normally not so familiar with or even from complete strangers as well as alcohol or parties in general; it's as if my mind said "ok, I've been stuck for too long, I need to get myself going again", until I realize acting like this only makes me uncomfortable. This from one side, from the other I overfocus on my job or in general on a single activity thinking that it will "save me" from the void and kind of stop doing anything else, that I start considering as meaningless. I also start getting paranoid that people want to exploit or control me in some way and I cut them out of my life by telling them even less about myself than I usually do.

The loops and trauma relationship is interesting, I've never considered it. I just knew that loops can't last for as long as, for example, half or big part of someone's life as they're supposed to be a temporary thing like grips, but I didn't consider that trauma might change this. This relates to the fact that I often think that trying to type myself is useless due to my particular condition, I will never have balanced functions or coherent reactions like most people.
 
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AdamK

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This is really interesting to me. Assuming trauma isn't affecting your function stack, then it's looking less and less likely that you have Ne. I agree that you probably use Ni instead. Maybe I just assumed that you had the same issue I did: not fully understanding what Ni is. My mind works in the opposite way to yours (Finding clues from outside myself, leading to several possibilities, then trying to narrow them down to the most likely ones.) I can see why you don't understand Ne users easily. I don't understand your thought processes easily, from what you've described.

Anyway, getting cheap thrills when you're stressed could be Se as your inferior function, or it could be a result of trauma messing up your function stack, or something else. I have been wrong before. If you use Se sporadically and chaotically then I doubt it's high on your function stack. Inferior seems likely. You might have Fe or Fi in the tertiary position, which means it's less recognisable at 25 years old, because it isn't well developed. If, and that is an if, that's correct, it narrows it down to INTJ (and you're wrong about Ti), ENFJ (and I'm wrong about inferior Se), INFJ (and Fe is higher than I assumed it was), and ENTJ (again, wrong about Ti).

At the end of the day, either trauma is interfering with your function stack, or you're wrong about one of the functions. Those are the only two things that make sense. People with Fi can understand other people. It's more about what gives you harmony. Fi is inner piece by focusing on what you feel, but that doesn't mean you can't understand others. Fe is harmony from outside yourself, created by keeping the "Group" happy, whoever the group is. Empathy is more a matter of where your feeling function is on your function stack.

I want to empathsise that, although I've investigated typology, I'm not an expert in it. I'm going by what I've read from more knowledgeable people. Plus, nobody can tell you who you are except you. You should treat this as a guide until someone who knows more can confirm what I've written.
 

SearchingforPeace

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I am 25.

I can't really explain in words what Ni means to me, it's such an unconscious and automatic thing for me that I find hard to put into rational terms. I would say that for me it's "just knowing", without any apparent reason or supporting evidence from the outside, but I believe in this apparently baseless assumptions completely. What I do when I need to prove my point to the outside is look for clues that confirm it, which basically mean that, moving from the assumption I believe 100% it's true, I look for outside details that confirm it when I need to convince others.

When I'm at my worst I get very angry and bitter, isolate myself from everyone meaningful and at the same time look for "cheap thrills" from people I am normally not so familiar with or even from complete strangers as well as alcohol or parties in general; it's as if my mind said "ok, I've been stuck for too long, I need to get myself going again", until I realize acting like this only makes me uncomfortable. This from one side, from the other I overfocus on my job or in general on a single activity thinking that it will "save me" from the void and kind of stop doing anything else, that I start considering as meaningless. I also start getting paranoid that people want to exploit or control me in some way and I cut them out of my life by telling them even less about myself than I usually do.

The loops and trauma relationship is interesting, I've never considered it. I just knew that loops can't last for as long as, for example, half or big part of someone's life as they're supposed to be a temporary thing like grips, but I didn't consider that trauma might change this. This relates to the fact that I often think that trying to type myself is useless due to my particular condition, I will never have balanced functions or coherent reactions like most people.
I see you as a Ni user from that.

"At my worst I get angry and bitter". Is that directed at yourself, a self-loathing descent into a pit of despair, or is it directed at others?
 

shecelmis

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I see you as a Ni user from that.

"At my worst I get angry and bitter". Is that directed at yourself, a self-loathing descent into a pit of despair, or is it directed at others?

I would say both. I'm usually quite harsh on myself, but during these bad times I swing from being even harsher on myself than usual to feeling doubtful and hating on everyone, thinking that everything bad that has ever happened to me is just their fault and that they deserve my anger and distrust.
 

SearchingforPeace

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I would say both. I'm usually quite harsh on myself, but during these bad times I swing from being even harsher on myself than usual to feeling doubtful and hating on everyone, thinking that everything bad that has ever happened to me is just their fault and that they deserve my anger and distrust.
Interesting.

You earlier posted that sometimes, when in a bad state, engage in cheap thrill seeking, even with random strangers.

Does this help you get into a better place, or send up deeper down?
 

shecelmis

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Interesting.

You earlier posted that sometimes, when in a bad state, engage in cheap thrill seeking, even with random strangers.

Does this help you get into a better place, or send up deeper down?

It just makes me feel worse because I do it just to shake things up hoping that the rush will make me feel alive again but it actually just makes me uncomfortable and I give it up sooner than later.
 

SearchingforPeace

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It just makes me feel worse because I do it just to shake things up hoping that the rush will make me feel alive again but it actually just makes me uncomfortable and I give it up sooner than later.
NJs use Se in two distinct ways: INxJs fall into Se when in the grip and ENxJs use Se to break out of the grip of inferior Ti.

Your thrill seeking behavior when off fits more with a INxJ than a ENxJ. Sure, a INxJ can loop in Se, but I don't see that.

There is a chance that you are a SP that is way out of touch with yourself for whatever reason. ISxPs can get very "Ni" after trauma, and it is also their rest point, so they think they have better Ni than they really do.

I see INxJ as the best bet.
 

Vendrah

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I'm quite confused about my cognitive functions stacking because it doesn't seem to make sense.
I know taking just one test is not enough so I took several, the results were are follows:
  • Keys2cognition: Ni=Fi>Fe=Si>Te>Ti=Se>Ne;
  • Mistype Investigator: Ni>Fi>Si>Fe>Te>Se>Ti>Ne;
  • Sakinorva: Ni>Fi>Ne>Si>Se=Ti>Fe>Te ;
  • Jung's igloo: Ni>Fi=Ti>Ne=Si>Te>Fe=Se ;
  • IDRlabs: Se>Ni>Fi=Si>Ne>Fe>Te>Ti;
  • Michaelcaloz test: Ni>Te>Fi>Ne>Ti>Fe=Se=Si.

So as you can see, what's consistent with most test results is that Ni and Fi are the functions I use the most, while everything else is a mess and just not consistent.
I do agree that I use Ni and Fi the most, which makes no sense in mbti theory because there's supposed to be a second extroverted function in between the two of them, and I can't just pinpoint which one it is. I know that the possibilities are either Te, Fe or Se; Te is the one I can most easily rule out because I don't really show it in my everyday behavior, as for Fe I have a weird relationship with it because I am indeed good at understanding people and just seem to instinctively know how they feel without them having to tell me anything, but I don't really see myself in the Fe-user stereotype, and I actually kind of despise it (I must also add that I became capable of understanding other people so easily during my early teens, when I was a kid I had a lot of trouble understanding what others might be thinking or feeling). As for Se, I admit that I thought for a long time that I could be an isfp in a Fi-Ni loop, but I realize now that it makes no sense because a loop is supposed to be something temporary and not something lasting for someone's whole life, as well as because I don't really see myself in the inf-Te related problems. I think if anything, the periods in which I seemed to use Se are sporadic and chaotic more than anything else, because on a daily basis my Se is pretty much nonexistent, as much as it pains me to admit so.
As for other cognitive functions, I would say that my Ti is decent, while I don't really know about my Si, and I don't seem to use Ne much at all, and Ne users are the people I have most troubles understanding, we just seem to think in completely different ways.
What mbti type would fit best someone who has Ni and Fi as their strongest functions? I can't seem to make any sense of this.
I don't know if this can help, but in enneagram I'm a 4w5 (415 or 451) so/sx. I've been told by someone I know who's kind of an expert in mbti that I could be an infj that appears to have a high Fi due to core 4, but I'm not really convinced because type 4 and Fi are not really the same, plus as I said before I don't really see myself in the "typical" infj descriptions nor in the Fe-user ones at all, and as I said before, I kind of dislike the idea of being like that.
What are your opinions on this?
Unpopular opinion: It's not you who is broke and there is nothing wrong with you, its the system's theory that is.
 

gofigure

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Jun 14, 2012
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Did you decide on your type? Kudos to you for obtaining scores from a variety of different sites.

After removing your subconscious/shadow functions, your conscious functions are: Ni, Fi, Te. You've scored zero (below) for Fe so I'd say Fe is your trickster. Inferior and demon (in this case, Sensing) are likely to mis-score in young adults so they can be disregarded.

Based on this data, I'm leaning heavily toward INTJ. I don't think this is ENTJ but you could check that possiblility out if you want.

1682604928287.png
 

INTJ1456

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sp
I'm quite confused about my cognitive functions stacking because it doesn't seem to make sense.
I know taking just one test is not enough so I took several, the results were are follows:
  • Keys2cognition: Ni=Fi>Fe=Si>Te>Ti=Se>Ne;
  • Mistype Investigator: Ni>Fi>Si>Fe>Te>Se>Ti>Ne;
  • Sakinorva: Ni>Fi>Ne>Si>Se=Ti>Fe>Te ;
  • Jung's igloo: Ni>Fi=Ti>Ne=Si>Te>Fe=Se ;
  • IDRlabs: Se>Ni>Fi=Si>Ne>Fe>Te>Ti;
  • Michaelcaloz test: Ni>Te>Fi>Ne>Ti>Fe=Se=Si.

So as you can see, what's consistent with most test results is that Ni and Fi are the functions I use the most, while everything else is a mess and just not consistent.
I do agree that I use Ni and Fi the most, which makes no sense in mbti theory because there's supposed to be a second extroverted function in between the two of them, and I can't just pinpoint which one it is. I know that the possibilities are either Te, Fe or Se; Te is the one I can most easily rule out because I don't really show it in my everyday behavior, as for Fe I have a weird relationship with it because I am indeed good at understanding people and just seem to instinctively know how they feel without them having to tell me anything, but I don't really see myself in the Fe-user stereotype, and I actually kind of despise it (I must also add that I became capable of understanding other people so easily during my early teens, when I was a kid I had a lot of trouble understanding what others might be thinking or feeling). As for Se, I admit that I thought for a long time that I could be an isfp in a Fi-Ni loop, but I realize now that it makes no sense because a loop is supposed to be something temporary and not something lasting for someone's whole life, as well as because I don't really see myself in the inf-Te related problems. I think if anything, the periods in which I seemed to use Se are sporadic and chaotic more than anything else, because on a daily basis my Se is pretty much nonexistent, as much as it pains me to admit so.
As for other cognitive functions, I would say that my Ti is decent, while I don't really know about my Si, and I don't seem to use Ne much at all, and Ne users are the people I have most troubles understanding, we just seem to think in completely different ways.
What mbti type would fit best someone who has Ni and Fi as their strongest functions? I can't seem to make any sense of this.
I don't know if this can help, but in enneagram I'm a 4w5 (415 or 451) so/sx. I've been told by someone I know who's kind of an expert in mbti that I could be an infj that appears to have a high Fi due to core 4, but I'm not really convinced because type 4 and Fi are not really the same, plus as I said before I don't really see myself in the "typical" infj descriptions nor in the Fe-user ones at all, and as I said before, I kind of dislike the idea of being like that.
What are your opinions on this?
It doesn’t make sense because the theory doesn’t make sense. People do not fit into these categories with certain functions in a certain order. It has absolutely no correlation to personality type. Someone arbitrarily assigned them.

James H. Reynierse writes, "Type dynamics [meaning function stacks] has persistent logical problems and is fundamentally based on a series of category mistakes; it provides, at best, a limited and incomplete account of type related phenomena"; and "type dynamics relies on anecdotal evidence, fails most efficacy tests, and does not fit the empirical facts". His studies gave the clear result that the descriptions and workings of type dynamics do not fit the real behavior of people. He suggests getting completely rid of type dynamics, because it does not help, but hinders understanding of personality. The presumed order of functions 1 to 4 did only occur in one out of 540 test results.

I too have taken many cognitive function tests, and each one gives me a different result, but what’s consistent is I score highest in Fi and Ti. The descriptions of those two types fit me very well, better than any of the other functions. However, the flawed theory says that you cannot have two introverted functions as your top two. Well you and I (and probably thousands of others) are proof that people CAN have two introverted top functions, because WE EXIST.

My guess is that you are an INFP.
 

Akhromant

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Nov 26, 2019
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Tests are useless. The misconceptions about the functions and the types are so widespread that basically everything that you might find out there is incorrect, starting with the famous but nonexistent "eiei/ieie" order, and all those "systems" that just get it all wrong and mistype everybody (16p, Socionics, OPS, CPT, etc).

The conscious functions have one attitude (e or i), and the unconscious ones have the other. Jung explained it quite clearly with things like this: "If you take an extravert you will find his unconscious has an introverted quality, because all the extraverted qualities are played out in his consciousness and the introverted are left in the unconscious; therefore it has introverted qualities, and with the functions it is the same". (You can read more about this here: https://akhromant.tumblr.com/types15#154). So the correct function order is eeii for extraverts and iiee for introverts.
 

Pionart

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You're an ISFJ.
Don't worry about the tests. They're inaccurate.
 

GavinElster

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sx/sp
First things first: there are various models by various professionals in the typology community in some way or another affiliated with Jung's original. Jung thought you could have a stacking such as Ni>Ti>Fe>Se.
The Myers-Briggs way revised this so the second function has to be in the opposite attitude.
People will often suggest you are ignorant or simplify this issue as if it's obvious, but it isn't. That isn't to say we can't try to think it through, of course.

The way the keys2cognition test is built and defines the functions, there is really no way why you couldn't have pretty much any combination.
That is just a comment on that test -- it does not settle the issue really, more like you just can't really rely on that test or its descriptions of the function-attitudes to settle anything.

I personally think the main subtlety driving everything here is whether, like "irrational/rational," which clearly isn't entirely a dichotomy and involves two things that can work together (perceiving and judging can naturally complement), "e/I" are more just opposing ways of thinking or ways that work together/complement one another, even if one has to pick a dominant.

The way Jung conceived of how this introversion-extraversion plays out originally definitely makes it clear why he thought the two are more opposed than complementary.. He clearly thought irrational-rational can complement, however.

A lot of what Jung originally thought of as I/e, though, has been reorganized by others under N/S, and the potential to do this was already evident in his writings. That is, what he thought of as "inner" and "outer" often tread around the "idea" vs "tangible" dichotomy--after all, it is tempting to think of ideas as residing in the inner world of the mind, and the tangible as residing in the external world of the sensory. I think his lovely original ideas still were dancing around precisely tearing apart some of N/S from E/I.

I think once we take away all of this, "abstract/mind vs concrete/sensory" stuff from E/I, it becomes clearer that the two can work together -- when it's really about mind-dependent vs mind-independent entities. The former being the realm of "I" and the latter the realm of "E". Subjective vs objective.
The way the two interact is that the mind can represent the world -- how it represents it is subjective, but the stuff represented is the object.
How pizza tastes to me is in my mind, but obviously, my mind gets me in touch with the pizza/interacts with it, and there's the object of tangible interaction.

Personally, I like a combo of both the e/I being opposed and working together way, and treat it like irrat/rat -- while someone may think the mind-dependent is primary, or even the only real thing, it is tough to function without at least the illusion of the mind representing some reality out there.
 
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