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Rap music and white people

Red Memories

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I mean, this thread got started by a white person, lmao!

Can't decide if you mean this in fair humor or as a jab because I chose to start the thread...

- - - Updated - - -

One could argue they don't like country music as a whole but listen to individual artists. There are exceptions. Rap is no different.

That's fair. I like Nicki Minaj... XD
 

Red Memories

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To get back on track here... I see cultural appropriation coming up from this. Do you think there's any truth to the standards within this? Do you think it is possible to admire the culture and partake in aspects of it without becoming offensive in this sense? It seems to be a mixed bag of reactions. I think it is interesting to hear the roots though. [MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] seems to know quite a bit about music in general.
 

Maou

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I may not enjoy rap at all, but I have enjoyed jazz quite a bit.

I also personally think culture should be shared and enjoyed by everyone, and not be exclusionary. I still find the concept of cultural appropriation to be antithetical to the entire point of diversity.
 

Mole

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The facts are biologists tell us there are no such thing as races. Only racists think there are races.

The racist typologists divided us into Aryan, Jew, Negro, Slav, and Asian.These are the racist somatic types, complemented by the 16 psychological types of mbti.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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To get back on track here... I see cultural appropriation coming up from this. Do you think there's any truth to the standards within this? Do you think it is possible to admire the culture and partake in aspects of it without becoming offensive in this sense? It seems to be a mixed bag of reactions. I think it is interesting to hear the roots though. [MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] seems to know quite a bit about music in general.
I discussed this distinction at length in some previous posts, and yes, there is a way to appreciate and participate with respect. This in part is allowing a negotiation and response from the culture being drawn from in place of an attitude that everything exists to be taken and used at will. There is a a well established discussion on this issue and here are some articles outlining this question. Artists and philosophers are examining this question at length.

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...arate-art-from-artist-cultural-appropriation/

"We think we know this difference when we hear it, but sometimes we don’t — so there are more questions to ask, and many of them point toward an imbalance of power. Is the appropriating artist profiting off a culture that remains marginalized? Does the appropriator seem to understand the complexity of their own relationship to the culture they’re cribbing from? Will their appropriated music steer attention toward its source? Or will it divert potential attention away from it?

White rappers are by far the most flagrant appropriators on today’s pop charts, and many of them flunk these questions. Yet scores of mediocre white rappers — from Iggy Azalea to G-Eazy to Post Malone to Bhad Bhabie — continue to climb far higher in the marketplace than they would if they were black. This falls on the audience and the industry. For these artists, it’s not that their whiteness automatically makes them bad rappers; it’s that their whiteness automatically sets them up to become successful rappers."

2. Guest column: Cultural appropriation in the rap community | Viewpoint | videtteonline.com


3. Do White People Appreciate Hip-Hop Or Do They Appropriate It? - The Prindle Post
"Appropriation versus appreciation in terms of fashion and hip-hop is a more difficult topic to decipher. A more obvious example is usage of the n-word by white audiences. It is a word that is so commonly used in hip-hop, that people listening to it, regardless of race, tend to sing along to the rap lyrics and include the n-word. On one hand, white people rapping the n-word could be seen as appreciation because they are just singing the lyrics to the song and they are not directing the word towards anyone. On the other hand, the n-word has such a long, hateful, and offensive history that still persists today. And regardless of it being in a song, it should not be used by a white person in any context because it was used and is still used as a derogatory term towards black people. It also wouldn’t be hard to a white person to pause or catch themselves while rapping the lyrics to a song that they like. In addition, some white people do take advantage of rapping the n-word, making their black counterparts uncomfortable. For example, a student at Harvard University recounted a time when he was at a party and during Kanye West’s song, “Gold Digger,” two white students looked him in the eye and rapped along with West, yelling “She ain’t messin’ with no broke niggas.” The white students put emphasis on the last word. It almost seemed as if the white students were provoking their black counterpart. If so, the issue transcends the discussion of appropriation versus appreciation and becomes an issue of racism."

4. Out of Line: On Hip Hop and Cultural Appropriation | by Cyan D'''Anjou | Medium
 

Mole

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Do I commit cultural appropriation when I write in Latin or Ancient Greek? No. And do I marginalise the Romans and Ancient Greeks when I argue in Latin or Ancient Greek? No.

The facts are all cultures are not equal. Even at the simplest level we are not equal. For instance, English contains far more words than any other language. Our resident German linguist took offence at this. How dare I suggest English and German are not equal. Yet with more words English makes more distinctions than German. And we perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see.

So those who accuse us of cultural appropriation and marginalisation want to blind us to the facts, so we will believe their fantasies.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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This shows the authenticity and truth telling of experience.


I decided to delete what I see as the culturally appropriated video.

BTW: Country music has also been culturally appropriated, but it isn't a race issue, rather socio-economic class appropriation.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I don't believe in Zeus or Poseidon, and this makes me an atheist, and I don't believe in race. I don't believe in things that we can show beyond doubt, don't exist.

Science has shown race doesn't exist yet the racists keep pushing race down our throats, click There's No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label.
I can appreciate this and understand race is a social construct.
But there is culture and the issue is cultural appropriation. It is about taking meaning, dismissing the creators of that meaning, and dominating the expression at the expense of the original creators.
 

Mole

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I can appreciate this and understand race is a social construct.
But there is culture and the issue is cultural appropriation. It is about taking meaning, dismissing the creators of that meaning, and dominating the expression at the expense of the original creators.

As I create something, it is my baby, I own it, I nurture it, I create it. But once I have created it, I let it go, so it can have a life of its own. This is called good parenting.

And once I let my creation go, and it has a life of its own, it no longer belongs to me. I may feel a pang to see it go, but I also feel some pride and pleasure in seeing it making its way in the world.

Cultural appropriation is a thought crime.

And ask yourself, who accuses us of thought crime? We only have to look at history to see who accuses us of thought crimes, or read, "1984", or read, "Animal Farm".
 

Mole

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OK, I know there is a conventional way of thinking about cultural appropriation, just as there is a conventional way of thinking about most things, or we can start to think for ourselves.

When we start to think for ourselves, we are surprised by what we think, and others are surprised by what we think, and tend to reject us and what we think - we have become heretical.

However we persist in conventional thinking because we want to belong. And we persist in thinking for ourselves, when we wish to individuate.

Unfortunately the narcissist will claim to be thinking for themselves when they are thinking conventionally. Narcissists are well known to lie to make themselves look good.
 

Vendrah

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[MENTION=14857]Powehi[/MENTION]
I understand your point but I might understand the opposite either. Or at least I think.
The problem of the cultural appropriation thing is that I have an impression that only people of one "race" can do rap, only people of "one race" can do A, B, C or D, and if people from another "race" do that, that is an offence. That is actually racism, even though it is not on the usual direction.

I mean, if you pay attention on the country vs rap thing, a 'white' labeled doing rap is an offence and cultural appropriation yet a 'black' labeled doing a country music it is not cultural appropriation. As I said, I don't think that the concept 'rap' is 'black' and 'country' is 'white' is really right, so the whole cultural appropriation goes apart.

What we have, however, is an artistic bias - and I mean, when a 'white' label people does the song or the thing, the person has a higher chance to succeed than any other 'race'. So I got a try to block white people on rap so they don't end up dominating the rap as well. That happens with US vs non-US people as well.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=14857]Powehi[/MENTION]
I understand your point but I might understand the opposite either. Or at least I think.
The problem of the cultural appropriation thing is that I have an impression that only people of one "race" can do rap, only people of "one race" can do A, B, C or D, and if people from another "race" do that, that is an offence. That is actually racism, even though it is not on the usual direction.

I mean, if you pay attention on the country vs rap thing, a 'white' labeled doing rap is an offence and cultural appropriation yet a 'black' labeled doing a country music it is not cultural appropriation. As I said, I don't think that the concept 'rap' is 'black' and 'country' is 'white' is really right, so the whole cultural appropriation goes apart.

What we have, however, is an artistic bias - and I mean, when a 'white' label people does the song or the thing, the person has a higher chance to succeed than any other 'race'. So I got a try to block white people on rap so they don't end up dominating the rap as well. That happens with US vs non-US people as well.
It is about power imbalances in society based on defined demographics. The country music issue would be a problem if it was completely taken over by another demographic without acknowledgment of its source. This is highly unlikely to happen - impossible actually given the current demographic imbalances.

If you watch the video Akala is very clear that cultural appropriation does not have to be treated racially or by placing hard boundaries and boxes on people. He talks about how he learns a Chinese martial art, but acknowledges its cultural source. This isn't about saying white people should not rap, and forcing it into that box is creating a strawman argument (I don't think you are doing that to the extreme many tend to do it). The actual position is completely reasonable and merely about respect and acknowledgment. That people fight against providing that comes across as extreme entitlement. If you write a paper and reference your sources, that is considered reasonable. At the larger cultural level there isn't necessarily one person to acknowledge, although sometimes there is, and there is always a cultural source to acknowledge.

The issue raised in the video is that the music industry has given financial and promotional preference to some white rappers when the actual style comes from outside their culture. It isn't about not letting people of other races perform hip hop or rap, but to not overrun and supplant the original people.

This isn't as much an issue for causal listeners and fans. No one is saying that everyone shouldn't appreciate an art form. The only comment in that direction was about the use of the N word, which is more of a racism issue, but still worth discussing. I did share an article about that.

My profession is in the creative arts and my colleagues are from all cultural backgrounds. This is an issue I believe in dealing with having integrity. I've changed the title of a piece I composed out of respect for a culture. I had used the same title as a well established folk song, and friend didn't point it out directly, but I'm sensitive to subtext, so I changed it. I appreciate and even perform expressions from other cultures, but ask questions about using textiles or sounds with respect to the original culture. This isn't about banning people, controlling people, or hard boundaries and boxes. It is about acknowledgment and respect. How are people not on board with that?
 

anticlimatic

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It is about power imbalances in society based on defined demographics.

Contrary to popular Marxist belief, not everything regarding human beings needs to be twisted into some kind of power struggle, moralized as such, and obsessed about.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Contrary to popular Marxist belief, not everything regarding human beings needs to be twisted into some kind of power struggle, moralized as such, and obsessed about.

u don't believe in alpha males?
 
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