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Random Politics Thread

Maou

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Exactly what do you mean by identity politics? Not wanting to be denied basic rights and opportunities because of what demographic group you belong to? Identity politics started with people denying rights and access to others on that basis: "whites only", "women need not apply", "You guys are partners? Sorry, the apartment is taken." If you don't want people in the excluded groups to object, then stop giving them anything to object to. Like Tim Walz was fond of saying: mind your own damn business.

As for parties, it is high time we had new ones. Traditional conservatives no longer recognize the republican party. They need to make a new party, and leave the GOP to Trump populists. The Democrats could well split into Bernie-Sanders-style socialists, and Clinton/Biden-style centrists. But that won't happen. It makes too much sense, and too many Republicans still have the Trump koolaid in their systems.
Identity politics have devolved into fascist rhetoric to the point that if you don't believe in it, you are evil, bigoted, racist, xenophobic and or transphobic. It leaves zero room for discussion. It has engulfed the Democratic party to the point you can't even have a discussion with these people anymore, without them saying they will commit suicide, or go insane. It is why so many people who are in the moderates, left center etc. went right wing. Because everything is right wing of identity politics. It's because of the hateful, witchhunt-esque and spiteful behavior on the Democratic party's side. People who don't ascribe to bullshit like CRT, gender theory, etc. are considered pariahs in the social sphere. Where is the mature conversation? Most people want to be left alone, and only care about their families and not fringe movements like LGBT who make up a small portion of the population. If you really want pure democracy, the majority wins. The majority isn't LGBT. It should be obvious, when some of the best modern Democrats in history, are abandoning the party in favor of Republicans. Democrats no longer represent the working class, or believe even in the constitution. They want to censor everyone and do away with freedom of speech, and damn and cancel everyone they disagree with. They are the party that wants to remove rights from everyone.

Both parties are being reinvented, and its high time the people who are done with this bullshit change sides and make a new name for themselves.
 

Maou

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I don't think it's going to happen for either party. I would describe the current political landscape as idiotic but attractive to many people politics vs people who refuse to ever learn from anything.

Any real change will need to start from below; I don't think we can rely on the Democratic party to really handle the situation considering where they have led us.
You really need to start respecting the average intelligence of most people. People don't motivate like this for zero reason.
 

Z Buck McFate

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As for parties, it is high time we had new ones. Traditional conservatives no longer recognize the republican party. They need to make a new party, and leave the GOP to Trump populists. The Democrats could well split into Bernie-Sanders-style socialists, and Clinton/Biden-style centrists. But that won't happen. It makes too much sense, and too many Republicans still have the Trump koolaid in their systems.

What we really need is ranked choice voting.
 

Stigmata

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Nah, I am fairly patient and accepting. I firmly believe 2020 was stolen. Zero doubt in my mind. No one in their right mind, think's the Biden administration did a good job nor that he is the most popular president in history. All they did was nothing but fuck up, and blame all the problems on Trump. Then when in 2025 happens. They will say all the good things was because of Biden. It is a ceaseless fuckery of dodging accountability, and people are too inept to understand it even when its staring them in the face. It is easy to track what policies lead to which outcomes.

I really hope the Democratic party wakes up, and returns to what it used to be.
This is we call "cognitive bias".

Regardless of how you personally feel about the current state of the Democratic party, this is pure copium. 60 thrown out court cases (Donald Trump And His Lawyers Are Making Sweeping Allegations of Voter Fraud In Public. In Court, They Say No Such Thing), many in which Trump's lawyers even admitted that their case wasn't a legitimate election interference case. Donald Trump has given the game away a few times recently and even admitted he knew he legitimately lost. When Trump tried to get Pence to go with the fake electors scheme, when Mike Pence rejected it, he told him "You're too honest, Mike".

Like, stop. You lost. It sucks to lose. And much the same way Democrats feel now is how Republicans felt in 2020 when they lost. Nobody likes to lose, but twisting yourself in a knot and somehow thinking you know better then lawyers and judges and investigators, ideologue right-wing Judges that Trump himself appointed even ruled against him because there was no legitimate evidence.

Remember the whole Arizona audit that the Republican state legislature approved that was supposed to be the definitive proof that the election was stolen, and ultimately it ended up proving Biden won by a slightly larger than what they originally thought.

Arizona ‘audit’ finds Biden won (by more votes) and no evidence of fraud

For political party who spent much of 2016-2020 branding themselves as the "fuck your feelings" crowd, they still haven't gotten out of their feelings after they let Sleepy Joe ran the fade and garnered the most votes ever cast for a sitting president, primarily because they spent most of COVID pretending it didn't exist, then having states play Hunger Games with eachother over PPE and medical equipment, then coming up with every crackpot theory as to how to deal with it outside of actually trusting the science, tanking his own "Greatest Economy" Trump repeated ad nauseum, and yet seem completely shocked about people turning out to vote against it all. Do you not remember 2020 when grocery store shelves were bare and toilet paper was more valuable than money? Yeah, that was all under Trump. I just can't understand how you don't understand that a lot of people in 2020 didn't like that and didn't want to vote for more of that.
 

Virtual ghost

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This is what I mean about dodging accountability. You don't "inherit" an economy. Have you ever looked at the economics before and after many presidents, and not just the current ones? It has always been in a gradual decline, its just hyper focus on the moment that takes it out of proportion. At the end of the day, it is just numbers too.

You can evidently inherent economy. Since you can inherit laws, you can inherit infrastructure, you inherit the debts, you can inherit momentum in the global market by taking your piece of the pie. There is never a complete reset when someone else takes the big chair.



Tariffs only are a tax to the foreign nations, not the American people. Trump made it obvious, that if you build a factory on USA soil, that you won't have tariffs. Its way easier to build a factory in USA, than to try to import. That is his aim, which doubles as bringing jobs to USA as much as it saves that foreign nation money on avoiding tariffs. Its a win win situation for USA, so why are you against it? Companies will be forced to adapt, so why bend to their will?


In an ideal schoolbook case of economics this would stand. Unfortunately the picture is much more complicated. The main reason is why would someone build mass factories in US ?


1. Your wages are about 5 to 200 times higher than the ones in the global south. What means that you can cut all taxes and put tariffs at 300% but that isn't really going to fix the problem. You can perhaps build your own new factories to some degree but a large wave of foreign investments in production is actually unlikely. Especially if we don't count high tech stuff.


2. The another problem is why would anyone invest in the country that is this much politically unstable ? Not to mention the public debt that is getting completely out of hand, what will in the end lead to genuine bankruptcy of the whole country. Another problem is that your healthcare system is weak. What means that labor could be fairly unproductive and that quickly mounts to losses and extra costs. One in five Americans can barely walk how fat they are. So the population isn't exactly someone that should be first in line to get hired. Especially since the place is way more expensive than global south and it often lacks the security and calmness of developed countries. Not to mention that modern factories are hard science based. While science isn't really the strength of general population in US. The pandemic basically proved that.


3. If you get too close to USA the odds are that you will have trade problems with China and all of their satellites and "colonies". Especially if Trump escalates trade war with China as he has promised. What opens the question if this is financially or strategically worth it for a company. Therefore if you get too close they might start hitting you with tariffs, plus they can lock you away from various cheap resources and cheap labor in the global south. Today USA simply isn't the only show in town and I find it almost shocking how people in US don't understand that the game has fundamentally changed over the last 20 to 30 years (hint: there are more than 2 of these shows, which are US and China). Plus to be honest with you Trump has really put a stamp of shame on all of your products. In other words today in the world there are very loud anti USA voices that will now get a boost. Especially if Trump decides to be radical in certain topics. In other words why on Earth boost the economy of the guy that thinks that climate change is fake? Or that healthcare isn't human right? Therefore the odds are that in the big picture you have put yourself in the position of a fish in a barrel.


Therefore all of this is much much more complicated than average Joe think it is. As I said I have real doubts that either party will be able to save the country. Especially since neither is offering fundamental change, and without that you can't really turn this around. I am not even saying that the big change has to be how the progressives imagine it. I am just saying that the foundations aren't really adapted to the world as it is right now.


I will gladly have a conversation with you in 4 years when it comes to who was more right about this.
 

Lark

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This is what I mean about dodging accountability. You don't "inherit" an economy. Have you ever looked at the economics before and after many presidents, and not just the current ones? It has always been in a gradual decline, its just hyper focus on the moment that takes it out of proportion. At the end of the day, it is just numbers too. Ofc the pandemic tanked the economy. WTF did you expect to happen when you close all the stores? It wasn't Trump's fault. What does the average American feel about the economy? The president can stop price gouging (because its illegal to begin with), which has been going on under the Biden administration unchecked and they did nothing to stop it.

Tariffs only are a tax to the foreign nations, not the American people. Trump made it obvious, that if you build a factory on USA soil, that you won't have tariffs. Its way easier to build a factory in USA, than to try to import. That is his aim, which doubles as bringing jobs to USA as much as it saves that foreign nation money on avoiding tariffs. Its a win win situation for USA, so why are you against it? Companies will be forced to adapt, so why bend to their will?

And no, countless judges chose not to look into the election, as it was controversial. Huge difference than there was no evidence of fraud. No one with any common sense didn't think there was fuckery in 2020. If you think it was negligible, you are ignorant about the technological backdoors, bribery, fraud and bad actors involved that have come out even after the election and admitted to their crimes. Mail in voting, needs to stop. Its been proven time and time again, that only the most corrupt dictators in the world employ them and it compromises voter integrity.

Voter suppression is a boogie man that needs to stop. Its "negligible" in all the ways you think fraud is. Voter ID needs to be implemented, so we can catch up to every other developed nation in the world. The only people against voter ID, have either been brainwashed or they want it to cheat. There is zero argument to be had here other than the racist assumption that black people can't get ID. Despite the fact they easily get ID to buy booze and drive a car.

The long decline narrative as it relates to the US is correct, although only correct in so far as the development of the US economy is about as complete as it possibly could be, if you look at the nations which are really growing now, China, India, even Ireland when they were talking up the "Celtic Tiger", those were all economies which were under developed to begin with.

Attributing economic decline to the pandemic is stupid, yes, it did call a halt to many of the typical mass transactions, ie the malls were shut, but for a long time the economies of the world have been restructuring to serve, exclusively, the top 1%, its neo-liberalism, look it up, there were even published memos from top US companies such as CitiBank, I think, in which they said they would only need to or plan to serve the 1% going forward and there was no point trying to expand their service to anyone else as it didnt bring the revenue to justify it.

Now, with that in mind, its just possible, like with a lot of other things, such as international travel, that the pandemic allowed for the testing of models and statistics for a world with a much smaller population of people, with a much curtailed marketplace (or the transfer of the marketplace online). I'm definitely not stoking any of the conspiracy theories about the great reset, the malthusian dreams of old money etc. Its just the logical outcome of elitism and the concentration of the wealth in a smaller and smaller population. A type of fuedalism is just the direction of travel for neo-liberalism.

Any short term, and it would be short term, benefit derived from tariffs will be offset in the longer term by the damage done to markets, monkey wrenching your competition only maintains you as a market leader for so long before the precipice of a market without competition, without even an approximation real competition, sets in. Its not as simple as "the factory is going to be in the US now" but I can see how that type of message catches on and spreads quickly. Its also the basis of autarky. "We dont need nobody" thinking of the sort that produced /produces isolationism, exceptionalism, national chauvinism. All of which arent just unpleasant or ill mannered cultural facets but have social and economic impacts on the same scale as those identified in the "calculation debates" which spelt the end of communist central plan authoritarianism as plausible idea.

So far as the idea of voter fraud goes, I dont think there was any voter fraud at the time of the last election, I think that Trump and his supporters really, really need there to have been something to explain their defeat at that time, also to feed their narrative of being engaged in an epic struggle with collossal, shady secret forces. Strip that out, strip out all of the QANON fantasies and James Bondish stories and what have you left to either the Trump personality cult or right wing politics? Not a lot. It would be like watching American wrestling with the trash talk and commentary striped out, and I do think that "politics" in the US has more to do with that sort of "reality TV" now than ever it did, its a complete infotainment phenomenon now with politicians performing like monkeys or feeding already pretty sick egos.

Which is why voter suppression is a serious issue, liberal democracies are SERIOUSLY limited in nature, they always have been but they are looking more an more like some sort of Chinese democracy with each passing day. Elections are a seriously limited exercise of democracy. Political Elections of assemblies, parliaments, senates or similar gatherings of a professional / dynastic cast of politicians are seriously so.

Can you think of any other instances, most parts of the ostensibly modern, liberal, democratic world in which you cast a vote and forfeit your sovereignty in quite the same way? Its definitely not the exercise in self-government and personal responsibility for the public sphere / public life it once was conceived as, voting for right wing predators or left wing paternalism isnt going to change that either.

Best case scenario the forfeiting of / seceding of responsibility to experts carries on a pace and is reflected increasingly in all other spheres of life too, which will be terrible, worst case scenario the world becomes a giant game of risk played by a bunch of gangsters with the masses marching willingly into the meat grinders until someone nukes someone else and its all done.

Its been building for years and became very visible when the militias started to trot out the "USA is not a democracy, USA is a republic", as though any of the original advocates of either saw any kind of a distinction between those things. I kid you not that the founding fathers of the US had considered economic reforms to do with land ownership and redistribution of incomes which put all modern New Deal and Post-New Deal "welfare" in the shade, all to prevent a "plutocracy" or elitism such as that in "old europe and Britain" emerging in their backyard. And that was at time of an acknowledged voter suppression when women, enslaved people, the native population, indentured labour, the young etc. were all excluded.
 

The Cat

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Frogs, stop giving good faith rides to scorpions, they're just waiting till you meet them half way, then...try to sting you so you both can drown for the lolz. They can't help it. Especially when they consistently demonstrate the lack the ability to not sting against their own interests.
 

Lark

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Identity politics have devolved into fascist rhetoric to the point that if you don't believe in it, you are evil, bigoted, racist, xenophobic and or transphobic. It leaves zero room for discussion. It has engulfed the Democratic party to the point you can't even have a discussion with these people anymore, without them saying they will commit suicide, or go insane. It is why so many people who are in the moderates, left center etc. went right wing. Because everything is right wing of identity politics. It's because of the hateful, witchhunt-esque and spiteful behavior on the Democratic party's side. People who don't ascribe to bullshit like CRT, gender theory, etc. are considered pariahs in the social sphere. Where is the mature conversation? Most people want to be left alone, and only care about their families and not fringe movements like LGBT who make up a small portion of the population. If you really want pure democracy, the majority wins. The majority isn't LGBT. It should be obvious, when some of the best modern Democrats in history, are abandoning the party in favor of Republicans. Democrats no longer represent the working class, or believe even in the constitution. They want to censor everyone and do away with freedom of speech, and damn and cancel everyone they disagree with. They are the party that wants to remove rights from everyone.

Both parties are being reinvented, and its high time the people who are done with this bullshit change sides and make a new name for themselves.

I dont support that type of politics either, I am unsure if it is identity politics, the right wing version of identity politics rooted in ethnicity, which I think is exemplified by Israel and the envy of racists everywhere, will always be the definition of identity politics.

The whole LGBT and niche / single issue nature of left wing thinking I believe is a legacy of a very vague, very neurotic well intentioned desire to always be representing their perceived underdogs and always searching for another oppressed group to liberate. Its just possible that some pundits are right when they say that the left was a victim of its own success, unable to plausibly continue fights about universal deprivations following welfare states, civil rights, legal redress the left struggled to adapt and seized upon the niche scenes as it did. That said, I dont think the left was as successful as is made out, I dont think welfare states, civil rights and legal redress on universal issues has ever been as good as has been made out, by anyone in favour or opposed it, I also sure as hell dont believe its assured, secure or certain to be there tomorrow either, its all ripe for dismantling.

I definitely dont think that that democracy is about a simple majority, that's the lynch mob, its not democracy, if democracy is anything at all its popular sovereignty, its supposed to be the "commanders baton in the knapsack of every infantry man" or "the community should be like a ship, every man (or woman) is ready to take the wheel" and not giving up freedom and personal responsibility to anyone.

It is true to say that the niche scenes are minorities, it is true to say, I think, that all those topics could and should have been dealt with as issues of minority-majority relations as opposed to the weird liberation and emancipation narratives that the left wing in the US especially seized upon. There can be such a thing as an inclusive society, public sphere etc. without deciding it has to distinctively adopt the norms, thinking and, in some cases, feelings of those niche groups. I think that particular issue should be dealt with by a proper understanding of what is private, personal, in some aspects a cultural issue, as opposed to a public, state, legal issue.

The right and the left both have their echo chambers and they understand inclusion as other people adopting and conforming to it, that has been essentially what cultural wars are built out of, and you get this or that politician who manages to harness it for a bit machavellian virtuoso style but its not a "disruption", its not change, its all a performance and ultimately a diversion from talking about the distribution of wealth, work life balance, whether life needs to a struggle for everyone etc.
 

ceecee

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I really hope the Democratic party gets replaced by a better party.
Do you think people in the US would vote for a true US Labor Party? The majority of people are working people. Strong labor laws, a leash on corporations and their spending (stock by backs, giant golden parachutes while making record profit), shop floor union leadership, investment in small business, basic healthcare, childcare, a livable wage, paid time off and pensions, humane policy and treatment of all Americans. Increase SNAP benefits, start building affordable housing, education,

Do I think this is possible? Yes. But the Democrats need to stop vilifying the left wing of their party immediately. Because guess who is winning their elections? AOC. Bernie Sanders, Rashida Talib.. And you can't run around saying the economy is great when people can't afford food or back a genocide for over a year without political blowback. Republicans are heinous people, no doubt and they gleefully enact laws against Americans that they would bomb other countries for doing to Americans. And Dems just stand there and let it happen.

But I will leave this here. The only Substack I subscribe to is Ken Klippenstein's (Ken was with the Intercept.) This piece encapsulates how I feel and the questions I asked perfectly. I don't support Trump or any Republican and I likely never will. But, Independents like Dan Osborn in Nebraska or DSA members that won, I would vote for them over a Democrat. And the issue with them is definitely in the DNC leadership/platform. For elites by elites.

“We will have a peaceful transfer of power in America,” the White House said today. “We accept the choice the country made,” President Biden offered.

“Earlier today, I spoke with President-elect Trump and congratulated him on his victory,” Kamala Harris said in her concession speech yesterday.

What happened to the existential threat to democracy? What happened to all of the fascism talk, to the warnings about Trump’s authoritarian streak, to the talk of him as a dictator, hellbent on exacting revenge?

Not a peep.

Instead, the losers want everything to be very civil and proper. It is so fitting that even in abject defeat, these norms humpers can’t help but get one last thrust in.

Kamala Harris in her concession speech did not just concede the election. She also admitted that she doesn’t really believe Donald Trump is a “fascist” — the term she used to describe him in the days before the election. Harris emphasized that she congratulated Trump. “We will help him and his team with their transition and … we will engage in a peaceful transfer of power,” she pledged.

That is not how you talk about a fascist, about a man that was compared to Adolf Hitler. Can you imagine in 1933, when Hitler was appointed Chancellor to lead the Nazi Party, that his opponents would hail it as a victory for democracy and congratulate him?

Here’s what Harris said in her concession speech:

“Now, I know folks are feeling and experiencing a range of emotions right now. I get it, but we must accept the results of this election.”

I wonder where “folks” got those emotions? In the days before the election, Harris called Trump a “wannabe dictator” and “petty tyrant.” Could that have stirred up some feelings?

“[There] is a legitimate fear…he [Trump] will not obey an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Harris said.

Even by the standards of today’s national politics, the cynicism is astounding. It’s as if Harris is saying: Come on now, you didn’t actually believe that whole fascism routine, did you?

In fairness, why should they have any shame about this? Biden retires to his sad corner. Harris gets to go back to being Vice President, write a multimillion dollar book and become a darling of the MSNBC circuit. The only blame I’ve seen the DNC assign is to Senator Bernie Sanders, who warned that the Democratic Party is out of touch with the working class. DNC Chair Jaime Harrison called Sanders’ remark “straight up BS.” (Harrison has since announced he won’t seek another term, so perhaps he’ll return to his previous job lobbying for Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Wells Fargo, Boeing, BP, and so on.)

The over $1.5 billion the Harris campaign raised got the consultants paid. They may have traumatized millions of voters by losing an election they spent the past year telling them would culminate in fascism, but they get paid either way. Everyone goes home in a limo. Except the voters.


We’re already hearing talk of 2028, the assumption of course being that Herr Trump will serve his term and the system will continue to hum along.

Ana Kasparian , commentator of the progressive news show The Young Turks (and my former coworker) got dragged by the progressive left recently for saying she didn’t think Trump is a fascist — while also stressing “I don’t support Trump.”

Now it turns out that Kamala Harris agrees with her. And so does President Biden, who in his first speech since the election announced that he had also called Trump to congratulate him and would help with the transition. Per Biden’s speech: “I’ve said many times, you can’t love your country only when you win. You can’t love your neighbor only when you agree.”

This will be the Democratic Party torch for the next four years, its love of country and of the Constitution, words on paper on display under glass. But no need to break that glass, because, well, convicted-felon-rapist-bully-liar-vindictive Donald Trump is not really that guy. Clearly, the American people agreed.

Like Harris, Biden also made Trump’s threat to democracy a major theme of his campaign for president. So I couldn’t help but laugh when I saw in his speech the admonition that Americans cool their jets.

“Bring down the temperature,” Biden said, admonishing the citizens to go home and accept their fate, presumably as they are rounded up and sent to concentration camps or worse.

Setting aside the rank hypocrisy, it may already be too late to dial down the temperature. Thirty-five percent of voters cited “Democracy” as the most important issue to them, according to exit polls by Edison Research. Eighty-one percent of them say they voted for Harris, a greater number even than those citing abortion as their top issue (14 percent, three-quarters of whom voted Harris). By contrast, only 31 percent of people cited the economy as the most important issue, with 79 percent of them voting Trump.

This is the natural result of the Biden-Harris campaign spending the last year scaring the shit out of people about the coming Fourth Reich. Ironically, this is very similar to Trump’s disappearing migrant caravan, which only seems to materialize in the weeks before an election before disappearing in a puff of smoke. For Democratic leaders like Harris, now that the election is over, the Fuhrer Trump memes are getting boxed up and put in the attic where they’ll remain until Vance runs for president in 2028.

It would all be funny if it wasn’t for the staggering opportunity cost of spending all this time litigating Trump’s psychology instead of, say, healthcare (remember when that used to be a campaign issue?), endless war, climate change and so on. None of which Harris took on with a shred of specificity or promise.

And then there’s the psychic toll. After the election, a therapist I know expressed dread at the coming avalanche of affluent clients seeking relief from Trump-related anxiety. (Reporting suggests that this is a widespread phenomenon, with therapists informally calling it “Trump Anxiety Syndrome.”) I don’t recount that with any disdain. The pain people feel is real to them. And with wall-to-wall news media sensationalism — “The debate over Trump’s authoritarian tendencies will soon be resolved,” a post-election Washington Post headline ominously intones — can you really blame them?
 
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Totenkindly

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Huh, interesting factoid about Klippenstein -- he's a graduate of evangelical liberal arts Wheaton College.

(Not really meaning to say anything by that, it's just interesting in light of what he's doing now politically...)

Any real change will need to start from below; I don't think we can rely on the Democratic party to really handle the situation considering where they have led us.
Yeah, sadly this has repeated each election enough that relying on a major party isn't going to change anything. I mean, this is MAGA and Tea Party started at the bottom. You do the hard work and build a foundation.

My party of registration was mainly in a two-party system, if you leave one but want to have some say in the primaries, you go to the other. I thought maybe the Dems had the deepest chance to resist but I am just not seeing or feeling that anymore.

I have not been in the mood to read much politics this week, so I hadn't really listened to Biden or Harris' comments in conceding. I'm kind of pissed when they were brought to my attention today. You can't stoke people's fears about fascism and take such a strong stance as was taken, then act afterwards like it was nothing. Why don't these people have any backbone, enough to either state what they truly believe up front or stick with it when they lose? This game won't fly and it undermines the future. Is this the end of democracy or not? Everyone has their own opinion; but if they are going to preach it, they need to ride that ship to the bottom, not jump off and in essence plead clemency.

Any anxiety I am experiencing over this is just based on what probable outcomes have already been declared and promised. So it's time to shore up and have a plan for what might happen. I don't feel like getting lost in anxiety is helpful, although I know people are not machines and some can't just turn it off, especially if they did not think this far ahead of time or perhaps they have very few options. But it is what it is. So either you are preparing for probable outcomes or you are frozen in fear and not taking plans to care for yourself and what you want to be doing next.
 
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ygolo

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I actually think one big thing that affected the election is that ST men are mad at women (sometimes rightly so).
What's "ST" in this context?

Misogyny played a role, certainly. As did racism. But the size and breadth of the swing wouldn't be explained by just this.

I should note that a lot of progressives won their races handily. But they were known for true populist empathy--Sanders, Warren, AOC,...

The rank and file of the party that claims to be the big-tent, soft-skilled, people skilled party that empathizes, were anything but that. The party machine and the podcast sphere of the Democratic Party(Pod Save America in particular) might as well have been sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling, "I'm not listening! (* points over there *) Fascism!"

"I'm not listening!" "I just can't!" "I don't care!" "You're irideemable!" --are all losing parts of party branding.

Quite frankly, it's even worse, if you claim to be the party of empathy.
 

ceecee

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A Democratic senator says the quiet part loud and admits why the party is terrified of populism: “populism is bad for our high-income base.”




GcCTJlIWUAA40ug
 

Virtual ghost

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Yeah, the only problem is that the rule is one person one vote. While there is evidently more low and medium earners than high earners.

Therefore at some point you have to introduce some pragmatism into how you approach the question of who you represent.
 

PineappleDuckCurry

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What's "ST" in this context?

Misogyny played a role, certainly. As did racism. But the size and breadth of the swing wouldn't be explained by just this.

I should note that a lot of progressives won their races handily. But they were known for true populist empathy--Sanders, Warren, AOC,...

The rank and file of the party that claims to be the big-tent, soft-skilled, people skilled party that empathizes, were anything but that. The party machine and the podcast sphere of the Democratic Party(Pod Save America in particular) might as well have been sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling, "I'm not listening! (* points over there *) Fascism!"

"I'm not listening!" "I just can't!" "I don't care!" "You're irideemable!" --are all losing parts of party branding.

Quite frankly, it's even worse, if you claim to be the party of empathy.
Sensing and Thinking
 
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Do you think people in the US would vote for a true US Labor Party? The majority of people are working people. Strong labor laws, a leash on corporations and their spending (stock by backs, giant golden parachutes while making record profit), shop floor union leadership, investment in small business, basic healthcare, childcare, a livable wage, paid time off and pensions, humane policy and treatment of all Americans. Increase SNAP benefits, start building affordable housing, education,

Do I think this is possible? Yes. But the Democrats need to stop vilifying the left wing of their party immediately. Because guess who is winning their elections? AOC. Bernie Sanders, Rashida Talib.. And you can't run around saying the economy is great when people can't afford food or back a genocide for over a year without political blowback. Republicans are heinous people, no doubt and they gleefully enact laws against Americans that they would bomb other countries for doing to Americans. And Dems just stand there and let it happen.

But I will leave this here. The only Substack I subscribe to is Ken Klippenstein's (Ken was with the Intercept.) This piece encapsulates how I feel and the questions I asked perfectly. I don't support Trump or any Republican and I likely never will. But, Independents like Dan Osborn in Nebraska or DSA members that won, I would vote for them over a Democrat. And the issue with them is definitely in the DNC leadership/platform. For elites by elites.

I think they could. People commonly feel screwed over by employers, for instance. That's a very common feeling. People don't like the hand they've been dealt.

A serious issue, though, is that people identify and admire entrepreneurs and rich people more than they should. They see them as the smartest, most brilliant people. When people think that way, is there any surprise that Trump won? It's been said that most Americans believe they are temporarily embarrassed billionaires, and so it's not surprising that they identify with people like Trump. I'm not against people owning businesses, but it seems to me like society and the law treats them as a separate, higher caste of people who deserve privileges other people don't get to have, because they are "job creators" or something like that. Maybe you do have to coddle entrepreneurs somewhat to get desirable economic outcomes, but it probably does not need to happen to the extent that it currently happens. There is a bootlicking tendency in the American public, and I think it can exist paradoxically alongside people feeling like their employers are screwing them over, because they don't connect the two, and are encouraged not to.

A problem with the Chicago DSA I observed is that it seems like there was a split between white people and POC. I don't know over what, and I don't know how that gets bridged, unless they find someone who can connect with both white and nonwhite people. Regardless, I'm contemplating getting involved with the DSA once again.

Even by the standards of today’s national politics, the cynicism is astounding. It’s as if Harris is saying: Come on now, you didn’t actually believe that whole fascism routine, did you?

This kind of thing infuriates me. They've been doing this ever since I can remember. In 2004 somebody on another forum would make posts every day about how horrible it would be if Bush was re-elected. Then when it did, they shrugged it off and said "Oh, Kerry would have done nothing and gotten blamed for it." I couldn't believe it. I was incredulous; I felt very led on, if this was still true. This was all just a bunch of bullshit?


I do believe the fascism routine, but thankfully I did not need the dems to sell it to me. It may or may not affect me personally (if so, most likely because of my political activities) but it is not something I will tolerate.
 
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Yeah, the only problem is that the rule is one person one vote. While there is evidently more low and medium earners than high earners.

Therefore at some point you have to introduce some pragmatism into how you approach the question of who you represent.
Yes. This isn't rocket science. There are more people without degrees than college graduates.
 
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What's "ST" in this context?

Misogyny played a role, certainly. As did racism. But the size and breadth of the swing wouldn't be explained by just this.

I should note that a lot of progressives won their races handily. But they were known for true populist empathy--Sanders, Warren, AOC,...

The rank and file of the party that claims to be the big-tent, soft-skilled, people skilled party that empathizes, were anything but that. The party machine and the podcast sphere of the Democratic Party(Pod Save America in particular) might as well have been sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling, "I'm not listening! (* points over there *) Fascism!"

"I'm not listening!" "I just can't!" "I don't care!" "You're irideemable!" --are all losing parts of party branding.

Quite frankly, it's even worse, if you claim to be the party of empathy.
I may very well on the spectrum, so it's amusing that now I'm the one who feels like perhaps they could have schooled people on how to talk to others. It's absurd.
 
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You really need to start respecting the average intelligence of most people. People don't motivate like this for zero reason.
I respect their intelligence while thinking they make terrible, idiotic decisions. It's analogous to how I view some of my cousins that voted in the same manner as yourself. I also think the decisions made by the Democratic Party with regards to how to govern and how to run campaigns were idiotic.

To be perfectly honest I make lots of idiotic decisions, too. Not when it comes to politics, though.
 
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Its been building for years and became very visible when the militias started to trot out the "USA is not a democracy, USA is a republic", as though any of the original advocates of either saw any kind of a distinction between those things. I kid you not that the founding fathers of the US had considered economic reforms to do with land ownership and redistribution of incomes which put all modern New Deal and Post-New Deal "welfare" in the shade, all to prevent a "plutocracy" or elitism such as that in "old europe and Britain" emerging in their backyard. And that was at time of an acknowledged voter suppression when women, enslaved people, the native population, indentured labour, the young etc. were all excluded.
Could you tell me more about this? This sounds fascinating.
 
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