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Don't worry I got that part as well.
Actually not so long ago one German citizen even called me a fascist for saying that there should be better worker protection in certain situations, because people are truly suffering and they are almost textbook slaves (especially since the issue often involves people that are probably some kind of mafia in the end). While the answer was like: you don't have the right to say or demand that the government determines which business models are ok and which are not. Totally delusional person. So yeah, some first worlders evidently took that whole "personal freedoms" thing too far.
Were you referring to human trafficking?
 

Virtual ghost

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Were you referring to human trafficking?

Nope. It is totally legal but the whole thing is bordering on being just that. Since those workers who are often foreigners work for minimum wage, they often live in crowded apartments, they have to pay tributes to the agencies that brought them here ... etc. When you draw the bottom line the whole thing really has a slavery feeling to it. Especially since legal oversight isn't too strict over all this. Plus with this you are destroying the standard for local workers as well, since they will quickly become too costly. So in the end pretty much everyone will become slaves of some kind. This is just something that as it seems is becoming quite "trendy" across Europe, but it must be stopped before it is too late. Since this is basically the corporate Trojan horse with aim to blow up all kinds of social contracts and local small business. The fact that there are mass protests in France for months now simply isn't a pure coincidence. The retirement age thing is basically just a trigger. Since some people really want to blow up the very foundations of the system.
 
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Nope. It is totally legal but the whole thing is bordering on being just that. Since those workers who are often foreigners work for minimum wage, they often live in crowded apartments, they have to pay tributes to the agencies that brought them here ... etc. When you draw the bottom line the whole thing really has a slavery feeling to it. Especially since legal oversight isn't too strict over all this. Plus with this you are destroying the standard for local workers as well, since they will quickly become too costly. So in the end pretty much everyone will become slaves of some kind. This is just something that as it seems is becoming quite "trendy" across Europe, but it must be stopped before it is too late. Since this is basically the corporate Trojan horse with aim to blow up all kinds of social contracts and local small business. The fact that there are mass protests in France for months now simply isn't a pure coincidence. The retirement age thing is basically just a trigger. Since some people really want to blow up the very foundations of the system.
Are these agencies large corporate entities? I was thinking coyotes but it sounds like there's more of a formal structure to it.

When you say they want to blow up the foundations of the system, what do you mean? What would the system be in this case, and why are people against it? I think here when people are against the system, the system means different things to different people.
 

Virtual ghost

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Are these agencies large corporate entities? I was thinking coyotes but it sounds like there's more of a formal structure to it.

When you say they want to blow up the foundations of the system, what do you mean? What would the system be in this case, and why are people against it? I think here when people are against the system, the system means different things to different people.


That is one complicated story but I will give it a shot to explain.
Those hiring agencies aren't that big structures but they are providing this quite cheap foreign born labor for local operations of large corporations, which are usually foreign owned. I mean the whole thing is totally formal. After all those imported workers are paying taxes and they have the right to use our socialized healthcare as well as many other options. However the problems is that at the end of the day they still work for just a few hundred dollars a month and that is basically abuse. In general working and living conditions seem to be pretty bad. Plus most importantly such imported workers are lowering the standards for local workers as well on the long run. Especially since they are basically forcing local companies to take that cheap labor as well (in order to stay in business). Therefore if local population in mass looses it's job, or income level, or benefits that is something that can be called "blowing up the system". Especially since that means that they will all emigrate in mass. What would kinda end the state/nation if things go far enough. Since the current loss of population is objectively unsustainable on the long run. Therefore this can all be seen as a very existential question and not just some random economic issue.


However the thing is that this isn't really individualist part of the world and resistance is growing. In other words my local Communists that never really accepted the fall of Berlin wall and all that jazz are starting to form a coalition with far right ultra nationalists. Since they are planning to form a wide coalition between the two groups. They usually vote together on many issues and they are even starting to come into each other's talk shows, so that that both bases get used to the idea. Even in online content it is getting kinda obvious that they plan to merge efforts. Actually just the other day there was some kind of a vote about banning Nazi stuff country wide. However the Communists from what I saw voted against that, what is because they want this coalition with far right. What is in order to oust the (neo)liberal pro western centrists. I mean they are doing this because this coalition should win if it makes half decent campaign. Communists will do it for the sake of workers rights or revenge and nationalists will do it because this has always been totally white country (and they think it should stay this way). Therefore now the gates of hell are open and 2024 elections could easily lead into paradigm shifts or mass unrest. As I said: in the Eastern Europe in general there is no consensus that textbook Capitalism should be all there is (including even the milder versions of it). So all of this wobbles the very foundations of the whole society and outcome is unclear. People are pissed in mass over just about everything, the system doesn't seem being too open about changes, while the general trends are unsustainable. So this just has so brake somewhere. Plus, people like Orban aren't really hiding the fact that they want to see the new coalition win. The liking of the both sides of it is basically on open display. So this isn't just some random local game but a piece of much bigger puzzle. The geopolitics is heavily involved in all this for sure.
 
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That is one complicated story but I will give it a shot to explain.
Those hiring agencies aren't that big structures but they are providing this quite cheap foreign born labor for local operations of large corporations, which are usually foreign owned. I mean the whole thing is totally formal. After all those imported workers are paying taxes and they have the right to use our socialized healthcare as well as many other options. However the problems is that at the end of the day they still work for just a few hundred dollars a month and that is basically abuse. In general working and living conditions seem to be pretty bad. Plus most importantly such imported workers are lowering the standards for local workers as well on the long run. Especially since they are basically forcing local companies to take that cheap labor as well (in order to stay in business). Therefore if local population in mass looses it's job, or income level, or benefits that is something that can be called "blowing up the system". Especially since that means that they will all emigrate in mass. What would kinda end the state/nation if things go far enough. Since the current loss of population is objectively unsustainable on the long run. Therefore this can all be seen as a very existential question and not just some random economic issue.


However the thing is that this isn't really individualist part of the world and resistance is growing. In other words my local Communists that never really accepted the fall of Berlin wall and all that jazz are starting to form a coalition with far right ultra nationalists. Since they are planning to form a wide coalition between the two groups. They usually vote together on many issues and they are even starting to come into each other's talk shows, so that that both bases get used to the idea. Even in online content it is getting kinda obvious that they plan to merge efforts. Actually just the other day there was some kind of a vote about banning Nazi stuff country wide. However the Communists from what I saw voted against that, what is because they want this coalition with far right. What is in order to oust the (neo)liberal pro western centrists. I mean they are doing this because this coalition should win if it makes half decent campaign. Communists will do it for the sake of workers rights or revenge and nationalists will do it because this has always been totally white country (and they think it should stay this way). Therefore now the gates of hell are open and 2024 elections could easily lead into paradigm shifts or mass unrest. As I said: in the Eastern Europe in general there is no consensus that textbook Capitalism should be all there is (including even the milder versions of it). So all of this wobbles the very foundations of the whole society and outcome is unclear. People are pissed in mass over just about everything, the system doesn't seem being too open about changes, while the general trends are unsustainable. So this just has so brake somewhere. Plus, people like Orban aren't really hiding the fact that they want to see the new coalition win. The liking of the both sides of it is basically on open display. So this isn't just some random local game but a piece of much bigger puzzle. The geopolitics is heavily involved in all this for sure.
Oh, so this is not really an EU-wide things but something localized to Croatia and probably neighboring countries as well. It seems like what is needed is a pro-western party that isn't neoliberal*. Does anything like that exist? I know it's much more of a multiparty system.
 
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Virtual ghost

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Oh, so this is not really an EU-wide things but something localized to Croatia and probably neighboring countries as well. It seems like what is needed is a pro-western party that isn't neoliberal. Does anything like that exist? I know it's much more of a multiparty system.

All around EU you have somewhat similar situations. However here due to various elements things are getting more complicated. After all in France you also have this in relatively similar fashion. The left that is evidently the left, you have Macron's centrists and then you have Le Pen and her far right. The only real difference is that in France the left and far right didn't find firm ways how to coordinate their efforts. Even if it is obvious that they have certain shared thoughts.


Plus the party from the story that the communists and far right seem to be trying to oust isn't neoliberal. I said that just to highlight what people don't like about it. To many they are too much into market and globalism even as they are. Even if this is the party that is still to the left of the US Democrats, but here even that may not be enough. There is over a hundred active parties in Croatia but many of them are basically irrelevant. But in general I would say that there is not a combination that is Pro western and completely without neoliberal feeling to it. Since for us the west in Neolberal basically by definition. Here some people even call Germany "the free market shithole". While average American thinks that this is some cool country with plenty of workers rights.
 
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All around EU you have somewhat similar situations. However here due to various elements things are getting more complicated. After all in France you also have this in relatively similar fashion. The left that is evidently the left, you have Macron's centrist and then you have Le Pen and her far right. The only real difference is that in France the left and far right didn't find firm ways how to coordinate their efforts. Even if it is obvious that they have certain shared thoughts.


Plus the party from the story that the communists and far right seem to be trying to oust isn't neoliberal. I said that just to highlight what people don't like about it. To many they are too much into market and globalism even as they are. Even if this is the party that is still to the left of the US Democrats, but here even that may not be enough. There is over a hundred active parties in Croatia but many of them are basically irrelevant. But in general I would say that there is not a combination that is Pro western and completely without neoliberal feeling to it. Since for us the west in Neolberal basically by definition. Here some people call even Germany "the free market shithole". While average American thinks that this is some cool country with plenty of workers rights.
I guess my next question is what are these coalitions claiming to do about it, exactly. Also, generally, what is the position of the party that is currently in power? Other than the fact that I assume they have failed to respond to this, I mean.
 

Virtual ghost

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I guess my next question is what are these coalitions claiming to do about it, exactly. Also, generally, what is the position of the party that is currently in power? Other than the fact that I assume they have failed to respond to this, I mean.


That is is a great question. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a firm plan what to do if this improvised new coalition would take power.
Plus we must acknowledge that the election victory of such a coalition isn't certain (especially since some people may jump "off the ship" in that case) . The things is also that the currently ruling center right isn't as much of a miss as it seems from the story thus far. If we consider how many crisis this party solved or went through and the country still exists then the record isn't really that bad. Not to mention 4 years of fighting the de-nazification in the 90s, the process that looked pretty much as it looks today 2023. However the fact is that we can actually use some imported new workers, the only question is will the importing stop at one level. Because if it does then the whole thing will not blow up. The fear is that corruption or something will keep the doors open. While other economic numbers like debt level are in positive, so it isn't that the system is out of any control. The system is simply new to mass immigration and that is what is creating certain tensions that can be exploited by opposition.

Also our current ruling coalition involves about a dozen political parties, center right is just by far the largest. However I previously presented the coallition as a single party just to keep it simple, since most foreigners get confused when they see 10+ parties ruling together. Therefore it is kinda questionable who is exactly to blame for all the screw ups. While the center right has a task to keep this coalition working since that keeps pro western orientation of the country. So this ruling coalition is basically a giant having a seat majority by being friends with a dozen dwarfs. In a typical western multi-party democracy parties are going on elections individually. While here they can glue themselves and go on elections basically as one party. But they can unglue before the next elections. Therefore in general the political system is good for supporting large number of parties in the parliament. So it can be hard to guess what exactly will happen. US has trouble guessing that even with just 2 parties, so when you have 20+ of them in the parliament it can be quite hard to guess the future.


In other words the center right is often under extra attacks simply for being the most pro western party out of all relevant ones. This party is simply our main link towards EU, US and NATO and people who hate those hate the party. So all judgments here aren't fully objective. After all EU in consultation with our ruling coalition has decided that over the next few years it will give us one our entire central budget worth of money. Just to help with keeping this pro western coalition going due to strong pressure. For example if you write something nice about USA on my local forums the odds are that some people will think you are a troll (or an idiot). So the same goes for the party that sees USA as close friend. This is exactly why I said that you can't rule out geopolitics in this mess. After all the ruing coalition is currently ousting Russian banks out of our strategic corporations. What was made possible due to sanctions against Russia, since that melt away most of their influence. So if the anti-western coalition doesn't win the east is more or less ousted from these parts. This is kinda why some are trying to make this unnatural coalition described few posts back. Since this is perhaps their only hope and it will probably be tight in 2024. However through multi-party system we are currently making new parties that could support the pro-western coalition. Since such parties can attract new voters or disappointed voters, while still giving them the place in the ruling coalition. In general the ruling center right coalition is implementing: the green new deal, it gives you socialized healthcare (even for immigrants), free college, dislike for anti-vax stuff, you get a month of paid leave every year, there are various other welfare programs, gun ban, there are some anti eviction laws, they legalized gay marriage ... fairly progressive agenda by US standards. But here even that can be called "neoliberal". Once you try genuine Communism everything else looks kinda neoliberal next to that. This sounds like a joke but it is true.

I mean I tried to keep things simple but the fact is that my local political system is quite complicated by the standards of most countries. So going into details can be confusing. While keeping things simple doesn't really show the full picture.
 
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I mean I tried to keep things simple but the fact is that my local political system is quite complicated by the standards of most countries. So going into details can be confusing. While keeping things simple doesn't really show the full picture.

I think the historical situation with the Communist party also makes things complicated. To my eyes I really don't see anything worth objecting to in the platform you describe. What does the Communist Party want as an alternati e? Nationalization of all industry?
 

Virtual ghost

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I think the historical situation with the Communist party also makes things complicated. To my eyes I really don't see anything worth objecting to in the platform you describe. What does the Communist Party want as an alternati e? Nationalization of all industry?

First of all they aren't called Communists on paper, but they are direct continuation of what remained of our Communist government. The founding father of the party is also our last Communist leader. So there is still a fair amount of nostalgia for that time and this is the party of mostly old people. Here many also want to see the boomers dead but for some very different reasons.


However in order to answer your question I have to go into another plot twist. The center right that leads the pro western coalition isn't really the genuine center right as the western world knows it. This is basically the party of reformed ex Communists and that is why you don't really see that much of a "problem" with their political program, that is pretty progressive by US standards. On the EU level they joined the center right block since they want new identity and they are really close to the Catholic church. However in that EU block of center right parties they are like the most left wing party of the whole block. But if you go deeper it gets even more complicated. The people I called Communists and the center right where actually one party during the Communist era. However as that era ended there was this great split. One side decided to go west and the other decided to keep looking eastward, especially since China started to grow. However when it comes to actual economic policy the differences are pretty minor. The difference is more about how to interpret the history and who are your friends globally. But even here things aren't totally black and white.


However all of this is what is leading us into the current absurd situation. Which is that the far right is becoming the kingmaker and they aren't fully certain what to do. This is kinda why we put them in the center of the parliament. If they go with center right the place will liberalize, there will be immigrants etc. However if they go with the left block then they are in the bag with people who are openly flirting with Communist era stuff. "Hello Comrades" at the rally isn't really that strange. Neither is protecting the intelligence officers from previous system when they are under pressure from foreign prosecution, since they killed some dissidents abroad decades ago. Plus to make things even more complicated the far right is 3 parties and some minor irrelevant ones. So it isn't a given that they will all go the same way. Also the green progressives that sided with people I called Communists are currently losing voters, since the Greens voted against key Ukraine bills and the left is flirting with some totalitarian stuff. So many progressive people are finding themselves better represented in pro-western center right that currently rules. The same goes for some far right voters as well. After all here far right supports welfare state as well. Here if you openly support the removal of the welfare state you will get some 0.3% of the vote and that is it. Therefore whoever takes the helm there will be decent amount of welfare state. What is on the ballot is global orientation of the country and some ideological questions, not so much the actual economic policy. Here big government is simply the law of the land, especially since that has foundations in the constitution. Since the local history is quite dark and welfare state is seen as a way from repeating that history. There is no family that doesn't have some scars from all the wars, concentration camps and regimes.
 

FemMecha

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Regarding the issue of transgendered athletes, particularly M->F, having an unfair advantage, isn't the solution to abandon gender divided sports and go with weight classes? Like small, medium, and large weight classes that work out weight, height, muscle mass, or whatever parameters makes for equivalent participants?
 

The Cat

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Regarding the issue of transgendered athletes, particularly M->F, having an unfair advantage, isn't the solution to abandon gender divided sports and go with weight classes? Like small, medium, and large weight classes that work out weight, height, muscle mass, or whatever parameters makes for equivalent participants?
Nothing that's actually happening is about Solutions, merely reformatting and marketing more problems. IF it were about solutions in any way shape or form, yes your solution is THE ONLY actual solution. The bathroom situation is another non issue. Hanging out for non toilet using reasons has always been frowned upon and harassing people in public restrooms has always been "illegal"...

But yes, you're quite right. Looks like that fortune cookie about living in Interesting Times was right. >_>
 

Mind Maverick

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Lady Lunacy in 2020: To clarify, what I'm trying to say here about it being too much about blacks specifically and not enough about equality...is that society tends to do pendulum swings. I think approaching racism against blacks rather than racism as a value...or by only focusing on one aspect at a time rather than focusing on it as a value...the problem will merely become more inflammatory.
I usually don't believe in the whole, "I told you so," thing, but considering the amount of shit I was given, and how strong the push back against what I was saying was...I think it's well deserved and I'll make an exception.

 

Mind Maverick

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Racism is not a race-specific issue. In fact, the underlying root of racism is not in racism at all.

Racism is a problem for any races, when said races are the minorities. That includes when white people are present in predominantly black locations, and that includes when black people are present in predominantly asian locations, or when asian people are present in predominantly white locations.

The root of the racism problem doesn't lie in discrimination based on skin. It is not a "skin deep" issue. It lies in discrimination against minorities in general, and it really has more to do with culture than skin colors. It is connected to a primitive aspect of human nature: to promote sameness. Flocking. Herding. Conformity. Similarity. Familiarity. The irony is that this nature that pushes humans toward unity is what causes it to be so divided.



The video clips are so obviously USA-specific. The views address history, society, culture, and population count, that are specifically North American. It's even more painful to watch when your knowledge and experiences aren't isolated to that, and do extend to other countries.

There are racial problems between asians from India and blacks from Nigeria. There are racial problems between hispanics from Spain and blacks from Africa. There are racial problems between asians from China and blacks from the many areas of Africa that China is overtaking.

This "blacks vs whites" slant on racial problems only further exemplifies how the USA's ignorance--which is the #1 weapon used by those in positions of wealth and power, against the common citizens of the USA, in order to promote its capitalistic agenda--is resulting in the country's downfall.
 
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The Cat

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Said it before and I'll say it again. Porn insecurity drives the right. Whatever culture war issue they're "fighting" can be directly tied to the kind of porn they watch and like to project that they're definitely not watching/wanking to...It would be funny, even cute, if they didnt cause actual harm to real people.​
 

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Said it before and I'll say it again. Porn insecurity drives the right. Whatever culture war issue they're "fighting" can be directly tied to the kind of porn they watch and like to project that they're definitely not watching/wanking to...It would be funny, even cute, if they didnt cause actual harm to real people.​
Knowles is a total f*ckwit. I mean, this crap would have been laughed off decades back perhaps, but today's embraced ignorance / fear of knowledge and learning, coupled with fear of the unknown + how easy it is for people to get a broad platform due to the Internet, is just causing a lot of issues. I was really excited about global computer networks and information staring / broad media in its early days, but now the craziest people have platforms to promote the craziest ideas.

This is pretty much just the evolved insanity of the early Satanic Panic days, but it mostly remained local and didn't necessarily have a national/global platform, and people could acknowledge it was nuts. These groups always fear being taken over or invaded by something they don't understand. It's invariably about their own hangups... but unfortunately now they have some real political and social power and are hurting people who otherwise wouldn't bother them.

Same mentality that allowed Josh Duggar to repeatedly molest his sisters and/or explore child porn, while constantly looking for other people and groups to blame it on. It's always someone else who controlled you or manipulated you or some outside influence -- it's the modern form of "Satan is lurking behind the bushes waiting to get you, if you're not careful."
 
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