Random Politics Thread

[The Cat]

Oh FFS >_<​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Biden’s Running. Which Republican Has the Best Chance of Beating Him?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If I believed in hell, I think I'd put people who see it as one of their primary missions to reduce social safety nets on a very deep level of it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Trump who? Farage’s party cozies up to DeSantis as White House hopeful lands in UK


When you take a look at this it is becoming quite obvious he will run for 2024. Otherwise this would make no real sense or point.
Plus once he announces he is running his numbers should go up significantly.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

If I believed in hell, I think I'd put people who see it as one of their primary missions to reduce social safety nets on a very deep level of it.

Some will perhaps hate me for this but from what I understand USA doesn't really have genuine safety nets. In order to have that you need government ownership over the net. While in US for the most part the government is talking money and then it is giving it to private businesses to provide some service to some XY person. What basically leads to money laundering and corruption. This is why safety nets never really worked in USA, since the key to that approach is that you keep costs as low as possible. What is basically impossible to do if there is no strong oversight from the government or even government ownership over the welfare supply chains. Which should keep the profit and administrative part of the equation under control.

Therefore since US can't really do this in cheap fashion it has to take plenty of debt to keeps such programs. What means that eventually people will have to pay all of this with interest rates. What really makes it questionable is this really worth it. Therefore if you can't do a genuine welfare programs then it perhaps better to go in the direction of genuine market and through that you should make it more or less affordable without the debt. After all you don't have even some of the most basic and most important welfare programs such as socialized healthcare for everybody or tuition free college. So the question is: is this really worth of all the debt that keep pilling until the system mathematically brakes for everybody.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Some will perhaps hate me for this but from what I understand USA doesn't really have genuine safety nets. In order to have that you need government ownership over the net. While in US for the most part the government is talking money and then it is giving it to private businesses to provide some service to some XY person. What basically leads to money laundering and corruption. This is why safety nets never really worked in USA, since the key to that approach is that you keep costs as low as possible. What is basically impossible to do if there is no strong oversight from the government or even government ownership over the welfare supply chains. Which should keep the profit and administrative part of the equation under control.

Therefore since US can't really do this in cheap fashion it has to take plenty of debt to keeps such programs. What means that eventually people will have to pay all of this with interest rates. What really makes it questionable is this really worth it. Therefore if you can't do a genuine welfare programs then it perhaps better to go in the direction of genuine market and through that you should make it more or less affordable without the debt. After all you don't have even some of the most basic and most important welfare programs such as socialized healthcare for everybody or tuition free college. So the question is: is this really worth of all the debt that keep pilling until the system mathematically brakes for everybody.

What I wanted to say with this: in US it is not possible to build any kind of a genuine welfare state until you vote out the GOP across the country, as well as decent chunk of centrist democrats. What evidently will not happen soon. Therefore it is perhaps better to try to find some other solutions. Like allowing more market but insisting on much higher wages and better working conditions. What is something that you just might get in the foreseeable future if you try hard enough.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

What I wanted to say with this: in US it is not possible to build any kind of a genuine welfare state until you vote out the GOP across the country, as well as decent chunk of centrist democrats. What evidently will not happen soon. Therefore it is perhaps better to try to find some other solutions. Like allowing more market but insisting on much higher wages and better working conditions. What is something that you just might get in the foreseeable future if you try hard enough.

It's often called a mixed economy but market socialism is the best framework moving forward. But yes, idiotic swing voters that say - I'll vote for Biden but I'll also vote for Republican Senators just to keep him honest or some equally stupid idea. That guarantees nothing will happen and the continued stalemate will continue. It has to come from the bottom up and Dems need a coherent message from the entire party.

As far as polling is concerned, even polling very close to an election, I like to look at this - November 2, 2022. And appreciate that Chris Cillizza is no longer able to pump out this shit.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/02/politics/cnn-poll-democrats-midterm-elections

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's often called a mixed economy but market socialism is the best framework moving forward. But yes, idiotic swing voters that say - I'll vote for Biden but I'll also vote for Republican Senators just to keep him honest or some equally stupid idea. That guarantees nothing will happen and the continued stalemate will continue. It has to come from the bottom up and Dems need a coherent message from the entire party.

As far as polling is concerned, even polling very close to an election, I like to look at this - November 2, 2022. And appreciate that Chris Cillizza is no longer able to pump out this shit.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/02/politics/cnn-poll-democrats-midterm-elections

From what I saw average American doesn't even know how functional welfare state works and it knows even less in how to achieve it. Even US people that are advocating this just don't seem to grasp how exactly get the effects that are desired. Therefore some really strong educating on the subject is needed. For example it is better to do free college first. Since you need to have medical staff that is without student debts in order to have socialized medicine at reasonable price. After all in the modern tech world education is simply the foundation for pretty much everything.


Plus if you want to mix welfare state, market economy and democracy the textbook term for that is social democracy. While if you want to give the market somewhat of an advantage then you want social market economy. While the term "socialism" is just too tainted or unclear, and thus it should be avoided. Especially since there are countries that had wars and revolutions so that they move from socialism to social democracy or social market economy. Since socialism has certain problems with democracy, while social democracy and social market economy don't have that problem in the model. Therefore it is very important to make that distinction. Especially in front of the people who think that Capitalism and Socialism are the only two options on the table.

 

[The Cat]

From what I saw average American doesn't even know how functional welfare state works and it knows even less in how to achieve it. Even US people that are advocating this just don't seem to grasp how exactly get the effects that are desired. Therefore some really strong educating on the subject is needed. For example it is better to do free college first. Since you need to have medical staff that is without student debts in order to have socialized medicine at reasonable price. After all in the modern tech world education is simply the foundation for pretty much everything.


Plus if you want to mix welfare state, market economy and democracy the textbook term for that is social democracy. While if you want to give the market somewhat of an advantage then you want social market economy. While the term "socialism" is just too tainted or unclear, and thus it should be avoided. Especially since there are countries that had wars and revolutions so that they move from socialism to social democracy or social market economy. Since socialism has certain problems with democracy, while social democracy and social market economy don't have that problem in the model. Therefore it is very important to make that distinction. Especially in front of the people who think that Capitalism and Socialism are the only two options on the table.

My dad (a boomer) the last time I was visiting, said he didnt understand how things could have seemed so much better when he was in highschool enonomically, and why cant it today....I mentioned social welfare programs that were in place then and gotten rid of during the regan years and beyond and he instantly started trying to shut it down with snarky comments about how not it couldnt be, college has never been free...and there werent social programs people just somehow had more.. >_< It's like the torment of tantelus from the perspective of the receeding grapes.

 

[Virtual ghost]

My dad (a boomer) the last time I was visiting, said he didnt understand how things could have seemed so much better when he was in highschool enonomically, and why cant it today....I mentioned social welfare programs that were in place then and gotten rid of during the regan years and beyond and he instantly started trying to shut it down with snarky comments about how not it couldnt be, college has never been free...and there werent social programs people just somehow had more.. >_< It's like the torment of tantelus from the perspective of the receeding grapes.

True, but that isn't the whole problem. Back then the jobs were much more stable, while now pretty much everything is digital and therefore fluid. People used to do one job for decades and today most people have to constantly switch various jobs. What in my book is perhaps even worse part of the story than deficit of welfare. The core of the modern 1th world economy is basically BS and improvisation. What in the end can only lead to mess and debt.

 

[The Cat]

Jack Black is Disney...​

 

[The Cat]

True, but that isn't the whole problem. Back then the jobs were much more stable, while now pretty much everything is digital and therefore fluid. People used to do one job for decades and today most people have to constantly switch various jobs. What in my book is perhaps even worse part of the story than deficit of welfare. The core of the modern 1th world economy is basically BS and improvisation. What in the end can only lead to mess and debt.

The point is, its very difficult to get to the whole problem, when any mention of ANY problem is shut down because of the American Mythology.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Not the same thing, but my dad talks about my employment situations like I'm in a union or have bargaining power or something. He thinks that I can find things in the contract that my employer wrote that give me any kind of power or rights. I have read these things and there's nothing. It's clear who has all the power. I have never been in a union; let me know if there are jobs like this that are unionized and I'll seek them out.

 

[The Cat]

Not the same thing, but my dad talks about my employment situations like I'm in a union or have bargaining power or something. He thinks that I can find things in the contract that my employer wrote that give me any kind of power or rights. I have read these things and there's nothing. It's clear who has all the power. I have never been in a union; let me know if there are jobs like this that are unionized and I'll seek them out.

Unions are pretty great ime. The jobs with them have been 1000% better in terms of being treated with dignity, and job security. When they got rid of our dayshift. They HAD to find space for us on one of the other shifts. The pay and benefits are much better also. You should try to get one going in your career field. There have to be other workers in your line of work who want to be treated like human beings instead of trained animals?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Unions are pretty great ime. The jobs with them have been 1000% better in terms of being treated with dignity, and job security. When they got rid of our dayshift. They HAD to find space for us on one of the other shifts. The pay and benefits are much better also. You should try to get one going in your career field. There have to be other workers in your line of work who want to be treated like human beings instead of trained animals?

I'm pro-union, I just think he doesn't realize that we've gone through a period of extreme de-unionization that is only now starting to turn around. (I think part of the difficulty with regards to me is that I always end up working for some intermediary rather than for the company directly; the first job I did like this was actually pretty great and gave lots of paid time off.)

I'm sure my dad doesn't mean any harm, but it annoys me. A lot of things tend to annoy me when I'm anxious about something; it's a trait I share with him and not something I'm proud of. Ironically, we're growing a lot closer because of things like this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The point is, its very difficult to get to the whole problem, when any mention of ANY problem is shut down because of the American Mythology.

Don't worry I got that part as well.
Actually not so long ago one German citizen even called me a fascist for saying that there should be better worker protection in certain situations, because people are truly suffering and they are almost textbook slaves (especially since the issue often involves people that are probably some kind of mafia in the end). While the answer was like: you don't have the right to say or demand that the government determines which business models are ok and which are not. Totally delusional person. So yeah, some first worlders evidently took that whole "personal freedoms" thing too far.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

One thing we can be proud of here is the efficiency capitalism has infused into billing for medical expenses. Miraculously, one immediately knows how much they owe and this doesn't take months to play out. Perfect efficiency working in perfect harmony. It's the American system at it's finest. My mind never ceases to boggle at such wonders.

 

[The Cat]

One thing we can be proud of here is the efficiency capitalism has infused into billing for medical expenses. Miraculously, one immediately knows how much they owe and this doesn't take months to play out. Perfect efficiency working in perfect harmony. It's the American system at it's finest. My mind never ceases to boggle at such wonders.

Sarcasm?