Random Politics Thread

[ceecee]

Perhaps it will even make it to category 5.
Large structural damage is basically certain at this point.

7 mph shy of Cat 5 and entering 90° (33°) water.

 

[ceecee]

James Madison never signed the Deceleration of Independence at 25. Or at any age. Neither did George Washington, John Jay or Alexander Hamilton.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[Jaguar]

Every speech sounds like a hostage video.

 

[Jaguar]

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Fiscal conservatives just hate poor people. Change my view.

 

[Jaguar]

The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The burden of proof is on you.

Guess what party the last President who balanced the budget belonged to? Given that, why are they usually Republican? Republicans have done fuck all to balance the budget in my life time.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I wasn't old enough to vote in 2000, but I do remember there was actually a budgetary surplus until a Republican got in the White House.

 

[Jaguar]

No, Bill Clinton Didn't Balance the Budget | Cato Institute

What's missing from that article is John Kasich's role.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No, Bill Clinton Didn't Balance the Budget | Cato Institute

What's missing from that article is John Kasich's role.

The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton - FactCheck.org

Don't tell me you're against fact checking and into "alternative facts."

The appropriations bills for fiscal years 1990 through 1993 were signed by Bill Clinton’s predecessor, George H.W. Bush. Fiscal 2002 is the first for which President George W. Bush signed the appropriations bills, and the first to show the effect of his tax cuts.
...

The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the “largest tax increase in history.” It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.

 

[Jaguar]

Don't tell me you're against fact checking and into "alternative facts."

I tend to accept things that none of the gents denied during personal interviews. It was a joint effort by many, not the result of just one person.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I tend to accept things that none of the gents denied during personal interviews. It was a joint effort by many, not the result of just one person.

I would expect Congress would play a role, and yet, the President can also veto legislation. That being said, the surplus ended in 2002. That was after 9/11 and Republicans did very well in those midterms. So, I know for a fact that Republicans had Congress and the Presidency. They opted to cut taxes, which seems to have wiped out the surplus.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why would it take Trump to turn fiscal conservatives against the Republican party? Shouldn't it have been turning the surplus into a deficit? I've never understood how that was compatible with fiscal conservatism .

 

[Jaguar]

I would expect Congress would play a role, and yet, the President can also veto legislation. That being said, the surplus ended in 2002. That was after 9/11 and Republicans did very well in those midterms. So, I know for a fact that Republicans had Congress and the Presidency. They opted to cut taxes, which seems to have wiped out the surplus.

GHW Bush's tax hike.
John Kasich.
Newt Gingrich.
Bill Clinton.

Some of you NTPs really need to stop with the generalizing to a group shit. There were key individuals involved and Clinton was the first to admit it. He didn't take all the credit. But of course you're going to tell me you know Bill better than Bill knows Bill. Right? Heh. What a bird. . .

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

GHW Bush's tax hike.
John Kasich.
Newt Gingrich.
Bill Clinton.

Some of you NTPs really need to stop with the generalizing to a group shit. There were key individuals involved and Clinton was the first to admit it. He didn't take all the credit. But of course you're going to tell me you know Bill better than Bill knows Bill. Right? Heh. What a bird. . .

Yo.... you still need to defend the Bush era tax cuts which, when coupled with the dumb war in Iraq, seem to have wiped out the surplus. You want to criticize the reckless governance of Trump? Have at it. But it's not unprecedented, whatever the neocons invited to speak on MSNBC might say.

 

[Jaguar]

Yo.... you still need to defend the Bush era tax cuts which, when coupled with the dumb war in Iraq, seem to have wiped out the surplus. You want to criticize the reckless governance of Trump? Have at it. But it's not unprecedented, whatever the neocons invited to speak on MSNBC might say.

Wrong Bushie boy, bucko. I'm talking about GW's father. It cost him the election for RAISING taxes after running his campaign on "Read my lips, no new taxes." Give him his due. He was working in a bipartisan manner and he knew raising taxes was the right thing to do. He did it. But it cost him.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Wrong Bushie boy, bucko. I'm talking about GW's father. It cost him the election for RAISING taxes after running his campaign on "Read my lips, no new taxes." Give him his due. He was working in a bipartisan manner and he knew raising taxes was the right thing to do. He did it. But it cost him.

I recognize that. But that was almost 30 years ago.

Since then, we've had some very bad precedents set by the GOP during the Dubya era which paved the way for the shit sandwich we have now. I'm applying blame in a bipartisan manner, because the Obama administration did nothing to challenge those precedents. Perhaps in the areas of civil liberties (slight topic change), for instance, they felt that "norms" would be sufficient to prevent abuse. Even so, I still hold them responsible.

I fail to see why a fiscal conservative wouldn't have left the GOP 18 or 17 years ago.

 

[Jaguar]

I recognize that. But that was almost 30 years ago.

It flows forward. The prior president(s) affect the future president(s). The ball rolls. Do you not recall the shit storm Obama walked into? Hell, I put my hand over my face and shook my head, pitying the poor bastard. All hell was breaking loose. I really have to give that guy a hand. So many important decisions to make and so quickly.

Since then, we've had some very bad precedents set by the GOP during the Dubya era which paved the way for the shit sandwich we have now. I'm applying blame in a bipartisan manner, because the Obama administration did nothing to challenge those precedents. Perhaps in the areas of civil liberties (slight topic change), for instance, they felt that "norms" would be sufficient to prevent abuse. Even so, I still hold them responsible.

I fail to see why a fiscal conservative wouldn't have left the GOP 18 or 17 years ago.

You're not going to catch me sticking up for GW. And I voted for him. That last Republican vote I cast was in 2004. But what a weird reason to vote for him. My reasoning was: "You made the mess asshole, YOU CLEAN IT UP!" I was pissed off. Ever heard of a grudge fuck? Yeah, well. I gave him a grudge vote. We had no fucking business going to Iraq. And I predicted we were going before he even got elected. Why? Daddy. Saddam tried to kill him.

As for leaving the GOP? I have an answer: Trent-fucking-Lott. That sonofabitch believed in 100% of nothing rather than 50% of something. A greedy moron. He didn't know how to wheel and deal with the Democrats. I had it with all of them and left.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It flows forward. The prior president(s) affect the future president(s). The ball rolls. Do you not recall the shit storm Obama walked into? Hell, I put my hand over my face and shook my head, pitying the poor bastard. All hell was breaking loose. I really have to give that guy a hand. So many important decisions to make and so quickly.

Pardoning Edward Snowden would have set a good precedent. Instead we get Roger Stone pardoned.

You're not going to catch me sticking up for GW. And I voted for him. That last Republican vote I cast was in 2004. But what a weird reason to vote for him. My reasoning was: "You made the mess asshole, YOU CLEAN IT UP!" I was pissed off. Ever heard of a grudge fuck? Yeah, well. I gave him a grudge vote. We had no fucking business going to Iraq. And I predicted we were going before he even got elected. Why? Daddy. Saddam tried to kill him.

Ah yes. I remember in 2004 the moderates were supposed to abandon the Republican party in droves, thanks to the nomination of John Kerry( as opposed to the far-left radical from Vermont), who gave a good speech about Vietnam one time. I hope we are spared the similar pragmatic prudence of Republican moderate grudge votes this time around. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there was a similar sentiment of how the guy who caused the mess should clean it up in November.

The one silver lining that has me think that history might not repeat itself is Covid. That is something that is truly unprecedented, and it's not yet clear how that will shake out. I would be very skeptical about Biden's chances if it wasn't very Covid. It's the virus, the handling of it, and the effects of it that make me optimistic about Joe's chances.

I think of the precedent that might have been set for politicians if Dubya had been a one term precedent. Then perhaps, they might have been sent the message that contempt for science was not something the American people would tolerate. Then perhaps, they might have felt that baseless fear-mongering about scary foreigners was not something the American people would tolerate. Then, perhaps, they may have felt that blatant lies in service of personal gain were not something the American people would tolerate.

This was not the precedent that was sent (indeed, this was the only time a Republican won the popular vote since the 80s), or the message that was spoken. The path was set in motion to where we are now.

Is it any surprise that we have a President who thinks that all of the above is ok when the American electorate has shown that it thinks all of the above is ok? Perhaps you need to face your responsibility for creating the present moment rather than ranting about people who want to take your money.

 

[Jaguar]

I hope we are spared the similar pragmatic prudence of Republican moderate grudge votes this time around.

No worries. Hell hath no fury like a pissed off Republican turned Independent. They have already put their money where their mouths are. And then some.

The one silver lining that has me think that history might not repeat itself is Covid. That is something that is truly unprecedented, and it's not yet clear how that will shake out. I would be very skeptical about Biden's chances if it wasn't very Covid. It's the virus, the handling of it, and the effects of it that make me optimistic about Joe's chances.

COVID is a hoax made up by Dems. Haven't you heard?

Is it any surprise that we have a President who thinks that all of the above is ok when the American electorate has shown that it thinks all of the above is ok? Perhaps you need to face your responsibility for creating the present moment rather than ranting about people who want to take your money.

I don't rant about anyone wanting to take my money. Why you keep reading Tellenbach's bullshit posts and thinking they're mine, I will never know. Go bitch at him.