Random Politics Thread

[Coriolis]

We'll just have to disagree as to whether Bernie or AOC are too liberal. I think a majority of American's think they are. The Democrats need to move to the center and away from progressive politics. That is the whole reason for Trump's rise in the first place.

VG refers to "if Trump doesn't mess up completely..." Trump is showing every sign that is exactly what he will do. I have faith he will get even more erratic and chaotic as time goes by. So the Dems just need a reasonable candidate to scoop up the center 30% or so. Let's face it, progressives are going to vote Democrat no matter what, and MAGA will stick with the Republicans no matter what. It's that middle chunk that is going to tilt the balance and the Dems need to start courting them.

Alas, the Dems still seem to be adrift at sea, with only the usual progressives making noise. If there is even a mainstream branch of that party currently functioning, they sure are quiet.

I really do disagree here. Centrist or mainstream candidates have not fared well in the past several elections. As AOC's constituents demonstrate, people willing to vote for Trump can only be wooed by someone equally ready to upset a status quo that just fed money to the wealthy. Centrist democrats have been doing this as well as republicans. I suspect that is what they are arguing among themselves as a party about, preventing any sort of coherent opposition to Trump. At this point they should probably turn the whole show over to Bernie and AOC, not that either of them would be a viable candidate, but they can certainly set the stage for one to emerge, and motivate people fed up with the system to follow someone other than Trump/Musk.

JFC. Now add the destruction of federal records to the other atrocities currently unfolding...
... cuz hey, if you're already guilty of treason and rights violations and stock market jiggering and other financial crimes, who really cares about the Federal Records Act of 1950, etc? Might as well go the whole way at this point.

USAID Ordered to Shred Classified Docs—or Throw Them in Burn Bags

Staff at the U.S. Agency for International Development have received an alarming order on what to do with their classified documents.

www.yahoo.com

This is where I hope faithful civil servants are putting the spirit of the Constitution over the letter of Trump's edicts, and doing the right thing.

 

[Totenkindly]

This is where I hope faithful civil servants are putting the spirit of the Constitution over the letter of Trump's edicts, and doing the right thing.

It was ironic, I was reading the article and without trying immediately began thinking of ways to smuggle documents to safety -- I mean, they literally beat this into our heads as fedgov employees in terms of maintaining federal records, protecting PII, and all the other stuff this administration is violating.

I hope there is an underground railroad for these papers.

 

[Virtual ghost]

EU announces 'countermeasures' to US steel, aluminum tariffs

EU wields ‘sledgehammer’ against Trump tariffs

The transatlantic trade war has started.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Captain of ship that crashed into US tanker is Russian, owner says

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

Centrists are just a fish hook to the alt right anyway.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Newsome is basically another Harris. His odds of winning Midwest battlegrounds are pretty slim if Trump doesn't mess up completely. What is pretty poor game plan however you turn it.

I see that this got some people thinking.
However the reason why I said this is because he was elected by his base to basically blow up the system. "Drain the swamp" is basically just politically correct version of "Burn down the whole house!". Therefore the very idea that he is doing something wrong is kinda subjective at the end of the day.

Therefore going back to the days which created this entire movement/mindset is basically a miss in reading the situation. What means that the Democrats will have to offer their own "radical proposals". They have be careful not to go too far but proposing more of the status quo in the situation like this will surely end in poor results. At this point "let's pretend everything is ok" simply isn't winning ticket.

 

[Totenkindly]

“The President Wanted It and I Did It”: Recording Reveals Head of Social Security’s Thoughts on DOGE and Trump

In a recording obtained by ProPublica, acting Social Security Commissioner Leland Dudek portrayed his agency as facing peril, while also encouraging patience with “the DOGE kids.”

www.propublica.org

---- also

Trump official filmed fashion influencer videos from her government office — as thousands lost jobs in DOGE cuts

In one post on her now-deleted Instagram account, McLaurine Pinover shared a link to her 800 followers where they could buy her $475 purple midi-skirt

www.yahoo.com

No surprise, these people are corrupt AF. Every accusation is a confession.

 

[Totenkindly]

We don’t need to be trying to compromise with these people, we need to be actively resisting and doing everything possible to preserve democracy, so I’ll take the lefties over the spineless centrist democrats falling in line under the new order

Senate Democrats appear ready to back down in government shutdown fight

Senate Democrats say the six-month government funding resolution that passed the House Tuesday is a “horrible” bill, but there’s growing sentiment within the Senate Democratic conference that it would be too risky to block the legislation and risk a government shutdown that could drag on for...

www.yahoo.com

When they ask what radicalized people to vote for the actual left, I think the response is going to be "the Fourth Reich Repubs & the Do-Nothing Dems."

They are just handing them the keys at this point.

 

[The Cat]

When you stop mistaking collaboration for confusion. Things start to make more sense.

 

[The Cat]

Fuck.​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Fuck.​

Europe’s military heavyweights call for defense industry deregulation

Trump reignites Europe’s Franco-German engine

Italy, Spain back France’s plan to rescue EU chemicals industry

Trump threatens mega 200 percent tariff on EU wines and spirits


I mean it is obvious that things are going towards "trans-atlantic divorce".
Just by watching various comment sections there is this wave of "Switch from American to European goods/services". What is big element of the story since it seems that consumers are starting their own private trade wars. What is usually beyond repair situation since you can't really force people to buy from you if there is free market. EUs GDP should be around 20 Trillion$ at this point. However out of that I am pretty sure that at least 10-15% is going to US companies doing business in EU. In other words what US produces in EU doesn't count in trade trade deficits and this surely isn't that small slice of the pie. Therefore if this slice changes in the terms where the money is going that can have major effect on what is going on in US. Since this can erase trillions out of it's own economy. If half a billion Europeans cut's in half consumation of US goods and services that will be felt for sure. In other words it seems that some people didn't realize that through this Europe is paying for it's security. Plus what it actually spent on security hardware also often went to US.

However with recent events this entire loop is falling apart. Especially since the only way EU can spend 5% of GDP on defense is by throwing money into it's own production. Otherwise the trade deficits would mess up the economy completely. EU doesn't have reserve currency of the world so that it can print money as much as it likes.


So as I said: all of this looks as completely new era. It seems that post WW2 world is coming to it's end even formally.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Coriolis]

Fuck.​

I see this as generally a good thing. A strong Europe is good for the world, and will likely have more sound and durable motivations to resist Russian aggression than we "across the pond" who are not as directly threatened. In the long term. the U.S. will still be able to compete for European defense dollars in areas where we really do have something better to offer based on American innovation, but that presumes we continue to (or resume) innovating. Significant cuts in research funding will put this in jeopardy, at least until it is turned around. We have already lost significant ground in some key industries, completely independent of Trump actions. I had hoped one silver lining of his first term would be to turn this around, but of course not, that would have been sensible and good.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I see this as generally a good thing. A strong Europe is good for the world, and will likely have more sound and durable motivations to resist Russian aggression than we "across the pond" who are not as directly threatened. In the long term. the U.S. will still be able to compete for European defense dollars in areas where we really do have something better to offer based on American innovation, but that presumes we continue to (or resume) innovating. Significant cuts in research funding will put this in jeopardy, at least until it is turned around. We have already lost significant ground in some key industries, completely independent of Trump actions. I had hoped one silver lining of his first term would be to turn this around, but of course not, that would have been sensible and good.

I am not sure you will be able to compete. Especially on larger scale where that would make a difference. In other words why US doesn't really buy European equipment ? Because that creates dependency in the terms of maintenance and politics, plus there is the trade deficit issue. Imagine that you get invaded and then you have to call someone to sell you the spare parts or ammo. In other words you need to get your fingers crossed that the person even has some in stock and that it didn't sell them to someone else instead. This model between US and Europe kinda worked because US was totally in due to political reasons. So that WW1 and WW2 don't repeat, plus holding Soviets at bay was truly in US interest. However since so many decades passed and Russia evidently isn't super power anymore all of this became obsolete as logic. What means that young and middle aged Europeans in general want certain distance from US. Since history doesn't pressure them as much as it did older generations. The only reason why any of this didn't happen sooner is because divorce from US would be a mess, so people let status quo to exist. However with current events and Trump pressuring Europe on all fronts that opened the door for snap decision(s).

As prime minister of Poland said: we are currently living in the world where 500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to protect them from 140 million Russians. Therefore when you read this between the lines that means that we don't really need you on the long run. As one of my local commentators said: Let's be honest we can't put the safety of entire continent into the hands of a few swing voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania every 4 years.


When I called all of this a divorce I truly mean it that way. Since divorce means that we wouldn't be going to bed together every night.
I know that is hard but what is going on is very likely something that can't be reversed. After all Trump still has something like 96% of the term left and the connections are already breaking apart left and right. Not to mention that his ideas will surely outlive him. What means that Europe will fill in the divorce papers and that will be it. We will see you around but the nature of the relationship will evidently change.

 

[Coriolis]

I am not sure you will be able to compete. Especially on larger scale where that would make a difference. In other words why US doesn't really buy European equipment ? Because that creates dependency in the terms of maintenance and politics, plus there is the trade deficit issue. Imagine that you get invaded and then you have to call someone to sell you the spare parts or ammo. In other words you need to get your fingers crossed that the person even has some in stock and that it didn't sell them to someone else instead. This model between US and Europe kinda worked because US was totally in due to political reasons. So that WW1 and WW2 don't repeat, plus holding Soviets at bay was truly in US interest. However since so many decades passed and Russia evidently isn't super power anymore all of this became obsolete as logic. What means that young and middle aged Europeans in general want certain distance from US. Since history doesn't pressure them as much as it did older generations. The only reason why any of this didn't happen sooner is because divorce from US would be a mess, so people let status quo to exist. However with current events and Trump pressuring Europe on all fronts that opened the door for snap decision(s).

As prime minister of Poland said: we are currently living in the world where 500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to protect them from 140 million Russians. Therefore when you read this between the lines that means that we don't really need you on the long run. As one of my local commentators said: Let's be honest we can't put the safety of entire continent into the hands of a few swing voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania every 4 years.


When I called all of this a divorce I truly mean it that way. Since divorce means that we wouldn't be going to bed together every night.
I know that is hard but what is going on is very likely something that can't be reversed. After all Trump still has something like 96% of the term left and the connections are already breaking apart left and right. Not to mention that his ideas will surely outlive him. What means that Europe will fill in the divorce papers and that will be it. We will see you around but the nature of the relationship will evidently change.

It comes down to whether people prioritize performance or politics. Note also that many military systems are complex items. Just being a supplier of key components or materials can be quite lucrative. One problem in the U.S. today, resulting from the aforementioned decline in certain industries here, is that we are dependent on non-friendly nations for some key materials and components. We have continued to buy them from those nations because we have put performance over politics, a decision I have considered relatively naive, especially since it has not been accompanied by an effort to re-establish domestic production.

The world is not getting any larger, or less connected. Relationships may evolve, but won't go away. If we end up in a situation where people buy from the U.S. when we have a better or cheaper product, and not simply because we are the U.S., that seems overall better and more fair. If too many Americans have drunk the Trump/Musk kool-aid to turn on them and kick them out, then Europeans are doing us all a favor by being hard on us, and not taking the appeasement route.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It comes down to whether people prioritize performance or politics. Note also that many military systems are complex items. Just being a supplier of key components or materials can be quite lucrative. One problem in the U.S. today, resulting from the aforementioned decline in certain industries here, is that we are dependent on non-friendly nations for some key materials and components. We have continued to buy them from those nations because we have put performance over politics, a decision I have considered relatively naive, especially since it has not been accompanied by an effort to re-establish domestic production.

The world is not getting any larger, or less connected. Relationships may evolve, but won't go away. If we end up in a situation where people buy from the U.S. when we have a better or cheaper product, and not simply because we are the U.S., that seems overall better and more fair. If too many Americans have drunk the Trump/Musk kool-aid to turn on them and kick them out, then Europeans are doing us all a favor by being hard on us, and not taking the appeasement route.

Maybe, but I was simply saying that things may not end up to be as pretty as you are imagining them.
After all the closeness probably wouldn't be to the same degree that it once was. Being friends and business partners are two different things.

 

[Totenkindly]

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/13/nx-s1-5325959/federal-employees-court-firing

Thousands of fired federal workers must be offered reinstatement, a judge rules​

The judge sounds rather irritated with OPM too, and basically said they're full of shit.



Who knows where this will go, but it sure takes some heat off those who remain if the administration is stuck on that fire.

 

[SensEye]

I know that is hard but what is going on is very likely something that can't be reversed. After all Trump still has something like 96% of the term left and the connections are already breaking apart left and right. Not to mention that his ideas will surely outlive him. What means that Europe will fill in the divorce papers and that will be it. We will see you around but the nature of the relationship will evidently change.

You are correct that this shit show is just getting started. I think much really depends on how long it lasts. I think the only thing most American voters will notice is if all these tariffs lead to inflation (I'm certain they will), a recession due to counter tariffs (US exports will eventually shrink), and a decline in the stock market.

This won't happen overnight, as supply chains and manufacturing capacity take time to establish (years even) but in six months impacts should start to hit pretty hard although the timing is confounded a bit by Trump's on again/off again instability on the tariff front.

However, as you imply, if other countries undertake the huge investment to change their supply chains and manufacturing capacity away from dependence on the US, they probably won't go back. China is probably loving all this as well as they will find new markets for their goods to fill the gap.

I'm still holding out a small hope that American's will wake up to Trump's b.s. when all this happens. If he mucks up medicare/medicaid and social security on the home front that would also help speed things along.

If Trump is still popular six to twelve months from now, I think the new situation will become entrenched. The mid-terms might be too late.

I'm also curious to see what happens when all these court rulings that are currently not going Trump's way hit the Supreme Court. If they slavishly do Trump's bidding the situation will get dire.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You are correct that this shit show is just getting started. I think much really depends on how long it lasts. I think the only thing most American voters will notice is if all these tariffs lead to inflation (I'm certain they will), a recession due to counter tariffs (US exports will eventually shrink), and a decline in the stock market.

This won't happen overnight, as supply chains and manufacturing capacity take time to establish (years even) but in six months impacts should start to hit pretty hard although the timing is confounded a bit by Trump's on again/off again instability on the tariff front.

However, as you imply, if other countries undertake the huge investment to change their supply chains and manufacturing capacity away from dependence on the US, they probably won't go back. China is probably loving all this as well as they will find new markets for their goods to fill the gap.

I'm still holding out a small hope that American's will wake up to Trump's b.s. when all this happens. If he mucks up medicare/medicaid and social security on the home front that would also help speed things along.

If Trump is still popular six to twelve months from now, I think the new situation will become entrenched. The mid-terms might be too late.

I'm also curious to see what happens when all these court rulings that are currently not going Trump's way hit the Supreme Court. If they slavishly do Trump's bidding the situation will get dire.

As you probably know from experience: US politicians managed to convince the whole world in 2016 that Trump is just anomaly that will pass. What means that we should all just play along, swallow a few things and everything is going to be fine. However as the guy won for the second time and is really pushing it there will be serious consequences this time. Because this time pretty much everyone will respond and that will be total mess however you turn it. Especially since many global players see all of this as golden opportunity to get something that was out of reach in previous decades. What means that globally we are going into 1880s saloon fight. The flying chairs, guns, booze, insults and women that are running through out the windows.


Plus I wouldn't expect too much out of mid-terms ether way since the Senate map isn't too favorable for the Democrats. Because Likely R states need to flip to switch control, while all toss up have to go blue as well. Therefore the odds are that the world will be kinda unrecognizable in 2029. As I said we are only 4% in and therefore it is time to dig in as much as possible. These just aren't the times for "positive way of thinking".