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Random Politics Thread

Red Herring

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Ukraine opposition leaders confirm talks with US but deny plotting to oust Zelenskyy

Ukraine opposition leaders confirm talks with US but deny plotting to oust Zelenskyy​

Petro Poroshenko and Yulia Tymoshenko denied they were part of a reported White House plot to remove Ukraine leader from power

Ukraine’s opposition leaders have confirmed they have held discussions with members of Donald Trump’s entourage, but denied on Thursday they were part of a reported White House plot to remove Volodymyr Zelenskyy from power.

The former president Petro Poroshenko said he had held talks with US representatives but added that he opposed Trump’s demands for wartime elections. Poroshenko, who lost to Zelenskyy in the 2019 presidential vote, said a poll should only be held once martial law ends.


Yulia Tymoshenko, Ukraine’s former prime minister, said she also opposes elections while fighting continues. She said her team was “talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible”.

The online newspaper Politico reported that the secret discussions took place as part of an attempt by the White House to remove Zelenskyy from his post. Four senior members of Trump’s team were involved, it said, adding they believed Ukraine’s president would lose a vote.
Commentators were unimpressed with the White House’s apparent behind-the-scenes attempts to pick favourites in Ukraine’s domestic politics. Tymoshenko was spotted in Washington during Trump’s inauguration in January, attending a prayer event with leading Republicans.

“This is a dead horse effort and shows how little the team who met either Ukrainian understands the reality in Ukraine,” Tymofiy Mylovanov, the president of the Kyiv school of economics, said on social media.
 

Red Herring

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Just double checking

ea653a012967e0eb20d293546a41388228fa23d63ae9fbb6d17b9202c166a6c6_1.jpg
 

Virtual ghost

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Just double checking

ea653a012967e0eb20d293546a41388228fa23d63ae9fbb6d17b9202c166a6c6_1.jpg



In the bigger picture it gets even "better" :
German military budget is about to be doubled over night (or perhaps even tripled), there is fully active "eastern front", there is instability in Northern Africa, there is Brexit, there is far right government in Italy, US and Russia are flirting with one another as United Europe lead by Germany is caught in between ... you have to admit that this is kinda awkward constellation of events.
 

Red Herring

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In the bigger picture it gets even "better" :
German military budget is about to be doubled over night (or perhaps even tripled), there is fully active "eastern front", there is instability in Northern Africa, there is Brexit, there is far right government in Italy, US and Russia are flirting with one another as United Europe lead by Germany is caught in between ... you have to admit that this is kinda awkward constellation of events.
I posted the current cover of Der Spiegel in the other thread. The one from Stern is even more, ehm, direct:

62fd29ac7ac83b5703ed951e00973c79560b07d21570141aa90eafc8.jpg


This probably needs no explanation or translation


So, yeah, the mood around here is a LITTLE bit tense right now.
 

Virtual ghost

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I posted the current cover of Der Spiegel in the other thread. The one from Stern is even more, ehm, direct:

62fd29ac7ac83b5703ed951e00973c79560b07d21570141aa90eafc8.jpg


This probably needs no explanation or translation


So, yeah, the mood around here is a LITTLE bit tense right now.

Well, I am in the same bubble as you. Only I am even closer to the edge.
In other words Bosnia just stopped to exist as a country. The pro Russians are ditching the constitution and everything linked to it ... and they are going their own way (they control 49% of the country's territory).


Bosnian Serb leader Dodik rejects court summons
 

Virtual ghost

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That’s what is inherent in US business culture. It had nothing to do with clothes.

Don't worry, we know.
This is exactly why it is stupid to attack the guy who holds the line against the odds and thus he keeps Russia away from US businesses in the wider region.
 

Totenkindly

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Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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In the bigger picture it gets even "better" :
German military budget is about to be doubled over night (or perhaps even tripled), there is fully active "eastern front", there is instability in Northern Africa, there is Brexit, there is far right government in Italy, US and Russia are flirting with one another as United Europe lead by Germany is caught in between ... you have to admit that this is kinda awkward constellation of events.
There were some among allied leadership at the end of WWII who thought the western armies should just keep marching across Germany and take on Russia then and there. I don't think German mobilization on behalf of Ukraine at this point is going to generate much ill will, with the obvious exceptions.

Their criticism of his clothes was hypocritical. It’s Melania’s focus that people shouldn’t obsess over her clothes which was supposedly the reason for her ratty “I don’t care do you?” jacket.

There are established power play tactics for meetings like height and position of chairs, giving black coffee without asking preferences, etc. which are inane power plays. Criticizing clothing was meant to throw him off psychologically and if he wore a suit there would have been something else “wrong” like his handshake or his shoes. That’s what is inherent in US business culture. It had nothing to do with clothes.
There ways to flip the script on many of these small slights, to regain that power. I wonder of Zelenskyy's background in acting helps him roll with the punches in these cases. I can't imagine he was actually thrown off by the clothing comment. It ended up just making the askers look petty, which they are. After all, Zelenskyy dressed the same way to meet King Charles, and even the Pope. Do Trump and Vance think they deserve more respect?

As a relevant aside, it is interesting to watch the TV series Zelenskyy was in, before becoming president. In it, he plays a schoolteacher who unexpectedly is elected president, and has to take on corruption and oligarcy in the manner of a "Mr. Smith goes to Washington". The series is a comedy, but I am told its intention was to educate Ukrainians on what good government looks like, and the hurdles that would need to be overcome to stem the corruption and become equal participants on the European scene. You can find the episodes on Youtube. It's called Servant of the People.
 

Virtual ghost

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There were some among allied leadership at the end of WWII who thought the western armies should just keep marching across Germany and take on Russia then and there. I don't think German mobilization on behalf of Ukraine at this point is going to generate much ill will, with the obvious exceptions.

I think that the name for that was: Operation unthinkable.
The truth is that what Germany and the rest of the continent are doing doesn't really have the alternative. Therefore what is being done is the only thing that makes sense in the current situation. If someone has a problem with that this is "their problem".

EU’s defense plans are a threat, says Kremlin, warning of retaliatory measures

Speaking of the obvious.



There ways to flip the script on many of these small slights, to regain that power. I wonder of Zelenskyy's background in acting helps him roll with the punches in these cases. I can't imagine he was actually thrown off by the clothing comment. It ended up just making the askers look petty, which they are. After all, Zelenskyy dressed the same way to meet King Charles, and even the Pope. Do Trump and Vance think they deserve more respect?

As a relevant aside, it is interesting to watch the TV series Zelenskyy was in, before becoming president. In it, he plays a schoolteacher who unexpectedly is elected president, and has to take on corruption and oligarcy in the manner of a "Mr. Smith goes to Washington". The series is a comedy, but I am told its intention was to educate Ukrainians on what good government looks like, and the hurdles that would need to be overcome to stem the corruption and become equal participants on the European scene. You can find the episodes on Youtube. It's called Servant of the People.

"Servant of the people" is also how his political party is called.
The whole party/movement is basically a spin off from the TV show.
 

The Cat

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What a yo-yo
that string pulling him up and down, i wonder who's finger lil Donnie's lil string is tied to.
 

FemMecha

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Vlad Vexler is an Oxford trained political philosopher with focus on the Ukrainian Russian conflict. He was raised in Russia and lives in England now. I find his analysis interesting.

 

Coriolis

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Vlad Vexler is an Oxford trained political philosopher with focus on the Ukrainian Russian conflict. He was raised in Russia and lives in England now. I find his analysis interesting.

This is their greatest worry at this point. As long as Ukrainians remain united, European support will take them far. Push long ago came to shove for them, though, with the invasion. I hope that will be enough to keep them together, and expose outside attempts to "divide and conquer" for what they are, much more readily than they will be in the US.
 

SensEye

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Lately, I have been thinking the US political system is really working against them in the sense there seems to be no "leader of the opposition" as there is in most countries (certainly in countries with parliamentary systems, but I think in most).

Trump would be so easy to criticize on so many fronts, that it seems it would be easy to turn public opinion against him. However, the Democrats have no champion to bring this messaging to the public on a regular and repeated basis. Repetition and being able to say 'this is bad, I would do this instead' are key in politics and swaying public opinion.

I glean Gavin Newsome is maneuvering for a run as Democrat nominee in 2028, but there should be somebody out there now constantly taking Trump to task on several fronts:

1) His obvious tax cuts for the rich policies. Somebody should be on TV every day saying how tariffs will be inflationary for most Americans and that the whole point of Trump's scheme is to raise revenue from this shell game to finance tax cuts for the rich. Every day. And they should be hamming them on Musk as an example of his the rich are his number one priority. I think this would resonate with the average voter if someone would just wake them up to it.
2) Trump's basically criminal get rich scheme over promoting his and Melania's crypto coins. I mean, wow, such an overt conflict of interest.
3) Just his general inconsistency with policy. Tariff whiplash, DOGE arbitrary cuts, etc. Trump doesn't know what his is doing and never has. Again, this message should be getting out every day.
4) Other dumb shit he does, like confusing trans genetic with trans gender (his thing with the mice). And how he is promoting that cancer survivor kid at the same time as slashing all sorts of medical research funding. The average voter misses this stuff is somebody mainstream isn't throwing it in their faces all the time.

I could go on, there is a vast array of ways to make Trump look bad that average folks would grasp, if somebody (like the obvious next Democratic wanna be president) would just do it. Alas, the Democrats seem to be a rudderless ship. Nobody is doing anything. Schumer is ineffective and hopelessly past his best before date (same with Pelosi if she is even still engaged). The progressive wing is generally ignored (and probably disliked) by mainstream voters. Newsome could probably fill the role, but he will probable just politic around the edges until late 2026 or so. That is a little too late if you ask me. Trump can do too much damage by then.
 

Coriolis

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Lately, I have been thinking the US political system is really working against them in the sense there seems to be no "leader of the opposition" as there is in most countries (certainly in countries with parliamentary systems, but I think in most).

Trump would be so easy to criticize on so many fronts, that it seems it would be easy to turn public opinion against him. However, the Democrats have no champion to bring this messaging to the public on a regular and repeated basis. Repetition and being able to say 'this is bad, I would do this instead' are key in politics and swaying public opinion.

I glean Gavin Newsome is maneuvering for a run as Democrat nominee in 2028, but there should be somebody out there now constantly taking Trump to task on several fronts:

1) His obvious tax cuts for the rich policies. Somebody should be on TV every day saying how tariffs will be inflationary for most Americans and that the whole point of Trump's scheme is to raise revenue from this shell game to finance tax cuts for the rich. Every day. And they should be hamming them on Musk as an example of his the rich are his number one priority. I think this would resonate with the average voter if someone would just wake them up to it.
2) Trump's basically criminal get rich scheme over promoting his and Melania's crypto coins. I mean, wow, such an overt conflict of interest.
3) Just his general inconsistency with policy. Tariff whiplash, DOGE arbitrary cuts, etc. Trump doesn't know what his is doing and never has. Again, this message should be getting out every day.
4) Other dumb shit he does, like confusing trans genetic with trans gender (his thing with the mice). And how he is promoting that cancer survivor kid at the same time as slashing all sorts of medical research funding. The average voter misses this stuff is somebody mainstream isn't throwing it in their faces all the time.

I could go on, there is a vast array of ways to make Trump look bad that average folks would grasp, if somebody (like the obvious next Democratic wanna be president) would just do it. Alas, the Democrats seem to be a rudderless ship. Nobody is doing anything. Schumer is ineffective and hopelessly past his best before date (same with Pelosi if she is even still engaged). The progressive wing is generally ignored (and probably disliked) by mainstream voters. Newsome could probably fill the role, but he will probable just politic around the edges until late 2026 or so. That is a little too late if you ask me. Trump can do too much damage by then.
There are a number of people regularly taking Trump to task. Some seem to be working more locally, like AOC. Others like Bernie Sanders are travelling around the country. Congressional democratic leadership do speak out but have not been nearly forceful or coordinated enough. It doesn't help that their efforts receive minimal coverage in mainstream news. So much for liberal media bias. Their bias is toward their wealthy sponsors and donors.

Kamala Harris' campaign, however unsuccessful, demonstrated that Democrats are capable of organizing quickly on a national level, and staying disciplined in their messaging. The fact that they are not doing so now can be blamed on media neglect only so far. Sure, many people were probably a bit burned out and disillusioned after the election. They have had time to rest. Now it is time to get moving.
 
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