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Random Politics Thread

Kephalos

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I don't like the direction American politics is taking, which let's be honest is the same direction politics is taking in so many other countries (it would seem that, once again, developments in Spain show where events elsewhere, including the United States, might go). I don't like it at all; I'm not at all optimistic about the United States nor about all of our countries, where the United States has such an influence (for good as well as for ill).
 

The Cat

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All it will take is enough people getting behind one offhanded mention of "get them before they get you." It's a powder keg and people are playing with matches.​
 

Red Herring

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Yuval Noah Harari on how to prevent a new age of imperialism​

Non-Western powers have a stake in bringing peace to Ukraine, argues the historian​

We fully appreciate our knees only when they stop working. The same is true of the global order: its former benefits become apparent only as it collapses. And when order collapses, the weak usually suffer most. This law of history should be on the minds of world leaders in the run-up to the Ukraine peace summit in Switzerland on June 15th. If peace cannot be restored and the international rules-based order continues to unravel, the catastrophic results will be felt globally.

Whenever international rules become meaningless, countries naturally seek safety in armaments and military alliances. Given events in Ukraine, can anyone blame Poland for almost doubling its army and military budget, Finland for joining nato or Saudi Arabia for pursuing a defence treaty with the United States?

Unfortunately, the increase in military budgets comes at the expense of society’s weakest members, as money is diverted from schools and clinics to tanks and missiles. Military alliances, too, tend to widen inequality. Weak states left outside their protective shield become easy prey. As militarised blocs spread around the world, trade routes become strained and commerce declines, with the poor paying the highest price. And as tensions between the militarised blocs increase, chances grow that a small spark in a remote corner of the world will ignite a global conflagration. Since alliances rely on credibility, even a minor challenge in an insignificant location can become a casus belli for a third world war.

Humanity has seen it all before. More than 2,000 years ago Sun Tzu, Kautilya and Thucydides exposed how in a lawless world the quest for security makes everyone less secure. And past experiences like the second world war and the cold war have repeatedly taught us that in a global conflict it is the weak who suffer disproportionately.

During the second world war, for example, one of the highest casualty rates was in the Dutch East Indies—today’s Indonesia. When the war broke out in eastern Europe in 1939, it seemed a world away from the rice farmers of Java, but events in Poland ignited a chain reaction that killed about 3.5m-4m Indonesians, mostly through starvation or forced labour at the hands of Japanese occupiers. This constituted 5% of the Indonesian population, a higher casualty rate than among many major belligerents, including the United States (0.3%), Britain (0.9%) and Japan (3.9%). Twenty years later Indonesia again paid a particularly heavy price. The cold war may have been cold in Berlin, but it was a scorching inferno in Jakarta. In 1965-66 between 500,000 and 1m Indonesians were killed in massacres caused by tensions between communists and anti-communists.

The situation now is potentially worse than it was in 1939 or 1965. It’s not only that a nuclear war would endanger hundreds of millions of people in neutral countries. Humanity also faces the additional existential threats of climate change and out-of-control artificial intelligence (ai).

As military budgets rise, so money that could have helped solve global warming fuels a global arms race instead. And as military competition intensifies, so the goodwill necessary for agreements on climate change evaporates. Rising tensions also ruin the chance of reaching agreements on limiting an ai arms race. Drone warfare in particular is advancing rapidly, and the world may soon see swarms of fully autonomous drones fighting each other in Ukraine’s sky, and killing thousands of people on the ground. The killer robots are coming, but humans are paralysed by disagreement. If peace isn’t brought to Ukraine soon, everyone is likely to suffer, even if they live thousands of kilometres from Kyiv and think the battle there has nothing to do with them.

Breaking the biggest taboo​

Making peace is never easy. It has been said that nations march into war through a barn door, but the only exit is through a mousehole. In the face of conflicting claims and interests, it is difficult to assign blame and find a reasonable compromise. Nevertheless, as wars go, the Russo-Ukrainian war is exceptionally simple.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine’s independence and borders were universally recognised. The country felt so secure that it agreed to give up the nuclear arsenal it had inherited from the Soviet Union, without demanding that Russia or other powers do the same. In exchange, in 1994 Russia (as well as the United States and Britain) signed the Budapest Memorandum, promising to “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence” of Ukraine. It was one of the biggest acts of unilateral disarmament in history. Swapping nuclear bombs for paper promises seemed to Ukrainians like a wise move in 1994, when trust in international rules and agreements ran high.

Twenty years later, in 2014, the Russo-Ukrainian war began when Russian forces occupied Crimea and fomented separatist movements in eastern Ukraine. The war ebbed and flowed for the following eight years, until in February 2022 Russia mounted an onslaught aimed at conquering all of Ukraine.

Russia has given various excuses for its actions, most notably that it was pre-empting a Western attack on Russia. However, neither in 2014 nor in 2022 was there any imminent threat of such an armed invasion. Vague talk about “Western imperialism” or “cultural Coca-Colonialism” may be good enough to fuel debates in ivory towers, but it cannot legitimate massacring the inhabitants of Bucha or bombing Mariupol to rubble.

For most of history the term “imperialism” referred to cases when a powerful state such as Rome, Britain or tsarist Russia conquered foreign lands and turned them into provinces. This kind of imperialism gradually became taboo after 1945. While there has been no shortage of wars in the late 20th and early 21st centuries—with horrendous conflicts ongoing in Palestine and Israel, and in Sudan, Myanmar and elsewhere—there have so far been no cases when an internationally recognised country was simply wiped off the map owing to annexation by a powerful conqueror. When Iraq tried to do that to Kuwait in 1990-91, an international coalition restored Kuwaiti independence and territorial integrity. And when the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, there was never a question of annexing the country or any part of it.

Russia has already annexed not just Crimea but also all the territories its armies are currently occupying in Ukraine. President Vladimir Putin is following the imperial principle that any territory conquered by the Russian army is annexed by the Russian state. Indeed, Russia went as far as annexing several regions that its armies merely intend to conquer, such as the unoccupied parts of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk oblasts.

Mr Putin has not bothered to hide his imperial intentions. He has repeatedly argued since at least 2005 that the collapse of the Soviet empire was “the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”, and has promised to rebuild this empire. He has further argued that the Ukrainian nation doesn’t really exist, and that Russia has a historical right to the entire territory of Ukraine.

If Mr Putin is allowed to win in Ukraine, this kind of imperialism will make a comeback all over the world. What will then restrain Venezuela, for example, from conquering Guyana, or Iran from conquering the United Arab Emirates? What will restrain Russia itself from conquering Estonia or Kazakhstan? No border and no state could find safety in anything except armaments and alliances. If the taboo on imperial conquests is broken, then even states whose independence and borders won international recognition long ago will face a growing risk of invasion, and even of again becoming imperial provinces.

This danger is not lost on observers in former imperial colonies. In a speech in February 2022 the Kenyan ambassador to the un, Martin Kimani, explained that after the collapse of the European empires newly liberated people in Africa and elsewhere treated international borders as sacrosanct, for they understood that the alternative was waging endless wars. African countries have inherited many potentially disputed borders from the imperial past, yet, as Mr Kimani explained, “we agreed that we would settle for the borders that we inherited…Rather than form nations that looked ever backward into history with a dangerous nostalgia, we chose to look forward to a greatness none of our many nations and peoples had ever known.” Referring to Mr Putin’s attempt to rebuild the Soviet empire, Mr Kimani said that although imperial collapse typically leaves many unfulfilled yearnings, these should never be pursued by force. “We must complete our recovery from the embers of dead empires in a way that does not plunge us back into new forms of domination and oppression.”

As Mr Kimani hinted, the driving force behind Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is imperial nostalgia. Russia’s territorial demands in Ukraine have no basis in international law. Of course, like every country, Russia does have legitimate security concerns, and any peace agreement must take them into account. During the past century Russia has suffered repeated invasions that cost the lives of many millions of its citizens. Russians deserve to feel secure and respected. But no Russian security concerns can justify destroying Ukrainian nationhood. Nor should they cause us to forget that Ukraine too has legitimate security concerns. Given events of the past decade, Ukraine clearly needs guarantees against future Russian aggression more robust than the Budapest Memorandum or the Minsk Agreements of 2014-15.

Empires have always justified themselves by prioritising their own security concerns, but the larger they became the more security concerns they acquired. Ancient Rome first embarked on its imperial project because of security concerns in central Italy, and eventually found itself fighting brutal wars thousands of kilometres from Italy because of its security concerns on the Danube and Euphrates. If Russia’s security concerns are acknowledged as a legitimate basis for making conquests on the Dnieper, they too may soon be used to justify conquests on the Danube and Euphrates.

Humanity’s next leaders​

To prevent a new age of imperialism, leadership is needed from many directions. The upcoming Ukraine peace summit can provide the stage for two particularly important steps.

First, European countries, some of which could be the next targets of Russian imperialism, should make a firm commitment to support Ukraine no matter how long the war lasts. As Russia intensifies its campaign to destroy Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, for example, Europe should guarantee Ukraine’s energy supply from power stations in nato countries. And no matter what happens in the American elections in November, Europe should commit to providing Ukraine with the money and weapons it needs to continue protecting itself. Given the isolationist tendencies of the Republican Party and other segments of American society, Europe cannot rely on the United States to do the heavy lifting.

Such commitments are the only thing that will convince Russia to negotiate for peace in earnest. Russia has much to lose from a prolonged war. Every month the war drags on, Mr Putin’s dream of making his country a great power fades, because Ukrainian hostility towards Russia deepens, Russia’s dependence on other powers increases and Russia falls further behind in key technological races. The prolongation of the war threatens to turn Russia into a Chinese vassal. Nevertheless, if Mr Putin thinks Europeans are getting tired of supporting Ukraine, he will play for time in the hope of finally conquering the country. Only when it becomes clear that Europe is in this for the long haul can serious peace talks begin.


The second important step is greater leadership from non-European countries. Rising powers like Brazil, India, Indonesia and Kenya often criticise Western powers for past imperialist crimes and for present incompetence and favouritism. There is indeed much to criticise. But it is better to take centre-stage and lead than to stand on the sidelines and play the game of whataboutism. Non-Western powers should act to protect the international order not to oblige a declining West, but for their own benefit. This will require powers like Brazil and India to expend political capital, take risks and, if all else fails, take a stand in defence of international rules. This will not be cheap, but the price of doing nothing will be much higher.

In September 2022 Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India told Mr Putin that “today’s era is not the era for war”. When Mr Modi later recalled their conversation he added that today’s era “is one of dialogue and diplomacy. And we all must do what we can to stop the bloodshed and human suffering.” Many months have passed since Mr Modi expressed these sentiments. Unless decisive action is taken by world leaders, it seems that the era of dialogue will be over, and a new era of unlimited war will be upon us.

Leaders from around the world should therefore attend the forthcoming summit, and work together to bring a just and enduring end to the war. Securing peace in Ukraine would position these leaders as global pathfinders who can be trusted to resolve other conflicts, tackle climate change and runaway ai, and guide humanity in the troubled 21st century.■

Yuval Noah Harari is a historian, philosopher and author of “Sapiens”, “Homo Deus” and the children’s series “Unstoppable Us”. He is a lecturer in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem’s history department and co-founder of Sapienship, a social-impact company.
 

SensEye

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Leaders from around the world should therefore attend the forthcoming summit, and work together to bring a just and enduring end to the war. Securing peace in Ukraine would position these leaders as global pathfinders who can be trusted to resolve other conflicts, tackle climate change and runaway ai, and guide humanity in the troubled 21st century.
I wonder if he feels the converse is also true, that failing to secure peace in Ukraine would position these leaders as ones who cannot be trusted to resolve conflicts, tackle climate change and runaway ai, and guide humanity in the 21st century.

China and India aren't doing squat to secure peace in Ukraine. In fact, by buying up loads of cheap Russian oil they are contributing greatly to Russia's economic ability to continue the war. So hold on to your hats folks, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
 

Virtual ghost

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I went through that entire text and to be honest to me it all comes down to the ideal of peace. That is noble goal but that isn't how the world actually works. In other words Putin since February of 2022 has taken only about 8-9% of Ukraine What is evidently too little to declare any kind of success. Therefore if he were to negotiate and freeze current situation the odds are that his rule would be over (and probably even more than just his rule). Russian culture simply doesn't tolerate those that don't deliver on the battlefield. Therefore here talking about peace is probably more of a idealistic reasoning than something that is realistic on the short term.


Not to mention that China still didn't play any military cards and it is obvious that they have plenty of those in their hands. What means that it is possible that the real show didn't even start yet. I mean not so long ago someone has done the math and it turned out that something like 3/4 of the world population doesn't live in a democracy (and the percentage is growing over the years). In other words if we live in the world where most world leaders don't respect even their own people I really don't see why should we bothered with peace at all costs. Also I don't see why a majority of people in the world should do that as well (if the picture is messed up as it is). In other words as a person that was actually born in a open dictatorship I really can't say that peace is always good. Since that can easily mean that the problems are just swept under the carpet and that is it. However for people who are peace lovers that will just maybe be good enough. In other words today I don't have voting rights because of peacemakers. I have them because those people were silenced after the years and there was a blessing from high places that dictator's troops should be completely taken out. In other words what peace lovers didn't solve through years of dampening the conflict open confrontation and good intel solved in about 72 hours. Not to mention that less people died in such short period than over the years. However that is the part of the equation that worshipers of peace will never tell you. Since those people for the most part can't understand that peace is the means, not the goal itself. Towards these people chemotherapy should never be performed since it is simply too horrible as a practice. After all tumors are living things and we should all respect them. I mean I am saying this just to show that "logic of peace" has it's limits, which fair chunk of people doesn't want to acknowledge. Because it is simply too uncomfortable for them.


Regarding climate change: as long as you have plenty of dictators that live out of selling or burning fossil duels you have no realistic chance to fix climate change. I am sorry but that just isn't realistic. This fact is exactly why we are where we are regarding this problem (and why every global climate conference pretty quickly becomes a joke).


I know that I am being provocative.
 

Red Herring

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I went through that entire text and to be honest to me it all comes down to the ideal of peace. That is noble goal but that isn't how the world actually works. In other words Putin since February of 2022 has taken only about 8-9% of Ukraine What is evidently too little to declare any kind of success. Therefore if he were to negotiate and freeze current situation the odds are that his rule would be over (and probably even more than just his rule). Russian culture simply doesn't tolerate those that don't deliver on the battlefield. Therefore here talking about peace is probably more of a idealistic reasoning than something that is realistic on the short term.


Not to mention that China still didn't play any military cards and it is obvious that they have plenty of those in their hands. What means that it is possible that the real show didn't even start yet. I mean not so long ago someone has done the math and it turned out that something like 3/4 of the world population doesn't live in a democracy (and the percentage is growing over the years). In other words if we live in the world where most world leaders don't respect even their own people I really don't see why should we bothered with peace at all costs. Also I don't see why a majority of people in the world should do that as well (if the picture is messed up as it is). In other words as a person that was actually born in a open dictatorship I really can't say that peace is always good. Since that can easily mean that the problems are just swept under the carpet and that is it. However for people who are peace lovers that will just maybe be good enough. In other words today I don't have voting rights because of peacemakers. I have them because those people were silenced after the years and there was a blessing from high places that dictator's troops should be completely taken out. In other words what peace lovers didn't solve through years of dampening the conflict open confrontation and good intel solved in about 72 hours. Not to mention that less people died in such short period than over the years. However that is the part of the equation that worshipers of peace will never tell you. Since those people for the most part can't understand that peace is the means, not the goal itself. Towards these people chemotherapy should never be performed since it is simply too horrible as a practice. After all tumors are living things and we should all respect them. I mean I am saying this just to show that "logic of peace" has it's limits, which fair chunk of people doesn't want to acknowledge. Because it is simply too uncomfortable for them.


Regarding climate change: as long as you have plenty of dictators that live out of selling or burning fossil duels you have no realistic chance to fix climate change. I am sorry but that just isn't realistic. This fact is exactly why we are where we are regarding this problem (and why every global climate conference pretty quickly becomes a joke).


I know that I am being provocative.
I think you missed Harari's point.

It's not about democracy, peace or Western values, it is about stability and self interest.
 

Virtual ghost

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I think you missed Harari's point.

It's not about democracy, peace or Western values, it is about stability and self interest.

That doesn't really change my argument or what it is trying to show. It is devil's advocate type of an argument to make but I am pretty sure that this side of the medal has something so offer as well.


Here is one pretty obvious example about which you are pretty familiar with: Orban. The guy was tolerated for years in the name of "peace and stability". Therefore now we have Orbanist tumors all over the continental system, and it is questionable if we will even make it. Therefore some things just have to be cut out in proper time. Pushing of just peaceful solutions into all situations is basically suicidal once you encounter what can be called "real problems".
 
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I'm getting tired of feeling as though I can no longer talk about world history from 2000 to 2022, so that is what is motivating this post, which I wouldn't have expended effort on a few months ago:

Question: Did a rules-based international order ever truly exist? If it did, why don't we have it anymore?

I think a rules-based international order is a great idea.. With regards to the international community, powerful countries can violate (or cover for those who do) the international order with impunity. The enforcement mechanisms that exist are mostly toothless anyway, and powerful countries won't even sign up for this. Why should powerful countries even maintain the illusion there should be some sense of accountability that applies to everyone? No, the message should be sent that you can't expect some countries to be taken to task, no matter what they do.

If my facts and understanding are correct, I can't say I blame Brazil, Kenya, etc for not wanting to get involved in this. It's not like there was this grand world order that everyone was following until Putin came along and ruined it. It's a system where powerful countries constantly thumb their nose at it and nobody can do anything.

I love the concept of everyone abiding by a set of rules, and nations facing consequences for not abiding by them. I like the idea of a system being set up so bad actors can face accountability. I don't like the idea of everything ultimately being competing power grabs with various moralistic justifications behind it.

Unfortunately, that really doesn't look like what we had, even before Putin in 2022. It just looks like the powerful doing what they can, and everyone else having to endure it, which is probably the way it's always been. I'm sorry, but I don't think the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine means that this is irrelevant. I don't understand why people are even talking about a rules-based international order when it seems like we've done nothing but treat such a concept with contempt.

The very concept of a rules-based international order seems like a lie to me; it did not exist 2 years ago when Putin began his invasion. How does a rules-based international order even exist when the major global player has refused, for instance, to take part in its enforcement mechanism? What are people even talking about?
 

Virtual ghost

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I'm getting tired of feeling as though I can no longer talk about world history from 2000 to 2022, so that is what is motivating this post, which I wouldn't have expended effort on a few months ago:

Question: Did a rules-based international order ever truly exist? If it did, why don't we have it anymore?

I think a rules-based international order is a great idea.. With regards to the international community, powerful countries can violate (or cover for those who do) the international order with impunity. The enforcement mechanisms that exist are mostly toothless anyway, and powerful countries won't even sign up for this. Why should powerful countries even maintain the illusion there should be some sense of accountability that applies to everyone? No, the message should be sent that you can't expect some countries to be taken to task, no matter what they do.

If my facts and understanding are correct, I can't say I blame Brazil, Kenya, etc for not wanting to get involved in this. It's not like there was this grand world order that everyone was following until Putin came along and ruined it. It's a system where powerful countries constantly thumb their nose at it and nobody can do anything.

I love the concept of everyone abiding by a set of rules, and nations facing consequences for not abiding by them. I like the idea of a system being set up so bad actors can face accountability. I don't like the idea of everything ultimately being competing power grabs with various moralistic justifications behind it.

Unfortunately, that really doesn't look like what we had, even before Putin in 2022. It just looks like the powerful doing what they can, and everyone else having to endure it, which is probably the way it's always been. I'm sorry, but I don't think the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine means that this is irrelevant. I don't understand why people are even talking about a rules-based international order when it seems like we've done nothing but treat such a concept with contempt.

The very concept of a rules-based international order seems like a lie to me; it did not exist 2 years ago when Putin began his invasion. How does a rules-based international order even exist when the major global player has refused, for instance, to take part in its enforcement mechanism? What are people even talking about?


You seem to be going to the other extreme from The Herring. Rules based order evidently exists, but that doesn't mean that just about everything is regulated or that it is regulated 100% of the time. However if you would completely undone all elements of that order I can promise you that you would even personally feel the consequences. Since that would end UN, NATO, WTO, various trading blocks and agreements, various humanitarian/labor organizations ..... and just about everything would turn to pure might makes right. While today that actually isn't the case in most situations. However when the system works then no one actually talks about it. What is the typical paradox of any order.

Therefore I disagree with you as well.
 

Red Herring

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I have little to add to the article by Hariri. The counter-arguments are all adressed in it.

On an unrelated note: Today I learned that the reason European Ebay sellers call their Cuban stamps "Caribbean" on EBay Germany is because EBay is forcing its European subsidiaries to break EU law* and implement the Helms-Burton embargo on Cuban goods. So if a Frenchman is selling old Cuban stamps to a stamp collector in Sweden on EBay France that is perfectly legal according to European law but will nonetheless violate Ebay regulations. That's why they use "Caribbean" instead of "Cuba" in the product description.

vintage-briefmarke-kuba-welt-ephemera.jpg


*The EU not only doesn't follow the Helms-Burton embargo on Cuba, but passed a resolution in 1996 that actually makes it illegal to implement the embargo. But Ebay USA has ordered its subsidiaries to violate local law and so far they have simply been allowed to have their way.
 
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You seem to be going to the other extreme from The Herring. Rules based order evidently exists, but that doesn't mean that just about everything is regulated or that it is regulated 100% of the time. However if you would completely undone all elements of that order I can promise you that you would even personally feel the consequences. Since that would end UN, NATO, WTO, various trading blocks and agreements, various humanitarian/labor organizations ..... and just about everything would turn to pure might makes right. While today that actually isn't the case in most situations. However when the system works then no one actually talks about it. What is the typical paradox of any order.

Therefore I disagree with you as well.
I'm writing this post not to attack, but in hopes of being convinced of the alternative viewpoint.

Is there a single instance of the U.S. violating any of these agreements, and then being held accountable for it? If there has been no violation of agreements, that is good and we have nothing to worry about. If there have been violations, and there have been no consequences, this indicates we already live in a might vs. right world, but with formal structures that obscure this fact.

I ask this question because I've observed a pattern of us already acting as though the rules do not need to apply to us with regards to international relations, except I guess I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't count in these cases. The case has often been made that those were necessary or justified, which I suppose is possible, but this also means that any kind of international rules-based order no longer exists if it ever actually did. It's utterly ridiculous to do things that circumvent an international rules-based order, and then later go on talking about how this international rules-based order is actually suddenly relevant and important again and shucks we don't know how this order got so weak. This is very hard for me to swallow; I've got to be missing something, right? Why do we keep talking about how we care about an international rules-based order that we don't care about?

How can this be anything other than nonsense?

To bring up the big one:

Did the 2003 invasion of Iraq not actually violate any international rules? Wasn't there a vote with the U.N. and that didn't go the way we wanted it to, so we decided we'd do it anyway? That has to violate some kind of rule, doesn't it? Or does none of this count because we weren't trying to make Iraq a U.S. territory (which hasn't been our style since the early part of the 20th century)?
 
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Virtual ghost

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I'm writing this post not to attack, but in hopes of being convinced of the alternative viewpoint.

Is there a single instance of the U.S. violating any of these agreements, and then being held accountable for it? If there has been no violation of agreements, that is good and we have nothing to worry about. If there have been violations, and there have been no consequences, this indicates we already live in a might vs. right world, but with formal structures that obscure this fact.

I ask this question because I've observed a pattern of us already acting as though the rules do not need to apply to us with regards to international relations, except I guess I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't count in these cases. The case has often been made that those were necessary or justified, which I suppose is possible, but this also means that any kind of international rules-based order no longer exists if it ever actually did. It's utterly ridiculous to do things that circumvent an international rules-based order, and then later go on talking about how this international rules-based order is actually suddenly relevant and important again and shucks we don't know how this order got so weak. This is very hard for me to swallow; I've got to be missing something, right? Why do we keep talking about how we care about an international rules-based order that we don't care about?

How can this be anything other than nonsense?

To bring up the big one:

Did the 2003 invasion of Iraq not actually violate any international rules? Wasn't there a vote with the U.N. and that didn't go the way we wanted it to, so we decided we'd do it anyway? That has to violate some kind of rule, doesn't it? Or does none of this count because we weren't trying to make Iraq a U.S. territory (which hasn't been our style since the early part of the 20th century)?


I answered all of this with that line that says "Not all is regulated and regulations aren't applied in all situations". However that doesn't mean that there isn't some kind of an order and that things can't get much much more messy than they are. Also since you are from one of the countries that evidently has problems with it's internal mess you don't get the impressions that there is some kind of wider order. Especially since all of your national talking points are just about your relations with the rest of the world. While talk about how the other 190 countries are relating to one another is the topic that doesn't exist for the average person in your country (the reality that even your comment tends to miss).
 

The Cat

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We live in a new time of cheap glamour.
Don't touch the boats.

Remember Kiddos:
il_fullxfull.3835886575_gj30.jpg

The life you save may be your own.​
 
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I answered all of this with that line that says "Not all is regulated and regulations aren't applied in all situations".
IMO, this is a pretty big sticking point if you want developing countries to take a more active role, which is the goal of the editorial. Those various countries are probably all still economically dependent on European nations (and the U.S.). Given the history of some of these places, I doubt they will just shrug off all of that.

While talk about how the other 190 countries are relating to one another is the topic that doesn't exist for the average person in your country (the reality that even your comment tends to miss).

I doubt the developing countries perceive much of an international order, either, for the reasons explained above.
 

The Cat

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There's always someone out there looking to make a new ally...

The name of the game is resources, who has them, who wants them, and how everybody is rushing to make their claim. The new gold rush of the lithium age. The balance of powers are shifting and the winds of change always blow. Power and Profit are the new Fortune and Glory. And the old gentleman's agreements dont hold the same power they used to. No one should get too comfortable rn. Too many games are afoot.
 
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Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,172
IMO, this is a pretty big sticking point if you want developing countries to take a more active role, which is the goal of the editorial. Those various countries are probably all still economically dependent on European nations (and the U.S.). Given the history of some of these places, I doubt they will just shrug off all of that.



I doubt the developing countries perceive much of an international order, either, for the reasons explained above.



In my opinion this is typical American opinion that is probably a few decades out of date. In other words over the last few decades the GDP of the so called developed world is constantly shrinking as a share of global GDP. While if you measure something much more concrete such as energy consumption the difference is probably even more drastic. However to understand that you need to change how you think about the world.


Therefore here is something to think about.





In a sense this is exactly why there is complete mess in the US. Since today you aren't special and the era when you were decades ahead of everyone are over. However most of you are too stuck in your own loop to understand that. Therefore the sooner you wake up the sooner you will be able to save what is left and find meaningful spot in the world as it is today. Which is that 190 countries are intermixed in world order. Which isn't super defined in all details but it is still far from fully random landscape.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,172
I was quite curious about how exactly the picture in energy consumption looks like. Therefore I did some searching to see exact numbers, since this opened as an argument here. Therefore here is something that I found.






In other words OECD are basically "US & friends".
Plus the difference would surely be even more drastic in the case that various countries didn't join OECD over the decades. In other words energy consumption is the actual measurement of economic activity. Since how large will be the speculative value of the end product can be misleading way how to measure reality. In other words if this is even remotely correct we can freely say that "There is brave new world out there". Especially since rate of change is surely increasing as the time is going by. Since global south is going through a massive development wave.
 
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