Random Politics Thread

[The Cat]

I forget people elsewhere dont have the same trauma bonds with their elected officials as we do with ours.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I forget people elsewhere dont have the same trauma bonds with their elected officials as we do with ours.

To tell you the truth I think you have trauma with your system, not so much with individuals in it. The current groups at the top but with different rules/constitution would made all of this into a different movie.

 

[The Cat]

To tell you the truth I think you have trauma with your system, not so much with individuals in it. The current groups at the top but with different rules/constitution would made all of this into a different movie.

Dude corporations are people here, we cant tell the difference between systems and individuals, sections of the population still cant agree on what makes for a proper human vs snake people. The majority still believe that if they do everything right they'll be able to buy their way into being a real person up at the top.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Dude corporations are people here, we cant tell the difference between systems and individuals, sections of the population still cant agree on what makes for a proper human vs snake people. The majority still believe that if they do everything right they'll be able to buy their way into being a real person up at the top.

​

Ok, but you aren't making me change my mind since this only proves that your current system isn't working.

Therefore I will just put my cards on the table in order to make my point.
For example if you would fragment both parties into 3 different ones that would surely change the whole dynamic. Since with 6 parties in the mix it is possible to punish a specific political party with 0 seats if they do bad things , what completely changes the dynamic of politics into what it unfamiliar to you. Plus much of the progress in multiparty system comes from negotiating coalition governments (what doesn't exists in your current system). Not to mention that the senate doesn't have to be a thing, the supreme court could be much more fluid. Also you could choose a president with a popular vote and that means that every single street in the country would count (and thus much more people would vote) ... etc.


Therefore I stand by my claim that same people but with different system would lead to different results. Since that would change the very basics of how the game works.

 

[The Cat]

Ok, but you aren't making me change my mind since this only proves that your current system isn't working.

Therefore I will just put my cards on the table in order to make my point.
For example if you would fragment both parties into 3 different ones that would surely change the whole dynamic. Since with 6 parties in the mix it is possible to punish a specific political party with 0 seats if they do bad things , what completely changes the dynamic of politics into what it unfamiliar to you. Plus much of the progress in multiparty system comes from negotiating coalition governments (what doesn't exists in your current system). Not to mention that the senate doesn't have to be a thing, the supreme court could be much more fluid. Also you could choose a president with a popular vote and that means that every single street in the country would count (and thus much more people would vote) ... etc.


Therefore I stand by my claim that same people but with different system would lead to different results. Since that would change the very basics of how the game works.

I'll never understand the seeming obsession some people have with changing someone else's mind. That's impossible. People change their own minds, everyone else just bears witness or tries to take credit. I don't think anyone who recognizes themselves in the mirror looks at any system or institution and says yes this is really working perfectly. Even in those that actually have some semblance of working. At the end of the day the wrass fish just keeps swimming in and out of the mouths of bigger fish and tries its best to not get eaten accidentally or on purpose. I hear what you and your fellows across the sea say about multi party systems, but I'll remind y'all your food is actually food and not just poison or coated in it. Healthcare is a basic human right over there. Here, we still have to buy in to be considered a living breathing human. We're so damned desperate and so damned scared we'd rather die in debt than see some hypothetical person get something for nothing instead of us that we keep electing flaccid pecker heads that feed our fears while killing us every which way but quick and clean. Both parties move based on how to spite the other party and everyone is educated that there's no other choice. At least we're not as messed up as the rest of the world, is a commonly held belief here. The fact that it is a lie, just makes it more fashionable to more people who dont like to believe there's anything else better out there, because if there were, well, then that would bye one of the stressful endings to the twilight zone episode. And nobody likes waking up in the Twilight Zone. Don't get me wrong I think its a gas that people are so worried about crazy everywhere but in their systems and the mirror, but I dont know what to tell you man, here, thats where it lives. And like all open secrets long kept hidden in the hearts and minds, we can't bear the shame of admitting it now. There's good money to be made expanding the nightmare.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'll never understand the seeming obsession some people have with changing someone else's mind. That's impossible. People change their own minds, everyone else just bears witness or tries to take credit. I don't think anyone who recognizes themselves in the mirror looks at any system or institution and says yes this is really working perfectly. Even in those that actually have some semblance of working. At the end of the day the wrass fish just keeps swimming in and out of the mouths of bigger fish and tries its best to not get eaten accidentally or on purpose. I hear what you and your fellows across the sea say about multi party systems, but I'll remind y'all your food is actually food and not just poison or coated in it. Healthcare is a basic human right over there. Here, we still have to buy in to be considered a living breathing human. We're so damned desperate and so damned scared we'd rather die in debt than see some hypothetical person get something for nothing instead of us that we keep electing flaccid pecker heads that feed our fears while killing us every which way but quick and clean. Both parties move based on how to spite the other party and everyone is educated that there's no other choice. At least we're not as messed up as the rest of the world, is a commonly held belief here. The fact that it is a lie, just makes it more fashionable to more people who dont like to believe there's anything else better out there, because if there were, well, then that would bye one of the stressful endings to the twilight zone episode. And nobody likes waking up in the Twilight Zone. Don't get me wrong I think its a gas that people are so worried about crazy everywhere but in their systems and the mirror, but I dont know what to tell you man, here, thats where it lives. And like all open secrets long kept hidden in the hearts and minds, we can't bear the shame of admitting it now. There's good money to be made expanding the nightmare.

​

I never said that your system will be easy to change or that it will change. I simply said that with different design of political system you would have a different dynamic. Even in the case that you keep political figures that you have currently on stage.

Plus if you can't change persons mind I really doubt that the big business would be spending so much on the advertising. I am pretty sure that they would be able to find better places for their money than something that supposedly doesn't work and costs trillions over the years.

 

[The Cat]

I never said that your system will be easy to change or that it will change. I simply said that with different design of political system you would have a different dynamic. Even in the case that you keep political figures that you have currently on stage.

Plus if you can't change persons mind I really doubt that the big business would be spending so much on the advertising. I am pretty sure that they would be able to find better places for their money than something that supposedly doesn't work and costs trillions over the years.

Yeah and if frogs had wings they wouldnt bump their butts, but alas, that just aint the world we live in. Regarding the bolded: You can break the bank on manipulation and influencers can whore out for profit till the cows come home, but at the end of the day its all just noise that a person chooses themselves to buy into. Brainwashing and marketing(same difference) is cradle to grave most everywhere, but mind changing, that comes from within. Always. Quite of few of them on stage now only work in a carnival game; and seeing as how you cant take the carnival games out of politics anywhere, we've never had any reps throw another into the garbage, as much fun as that; I'll grant you, would be. Regarding the italicized, you're underestimating how important the narrative that all "this is fine" really is to the vast majority of people. They'll cut off their nose to spite their face to preserve illusions as sacrosanct. Better places for your money here is largely considered the purview of off shore banking. Never underestimate how many people are willing to and expect everyone else to live and die on the status quo, even if its not. I still get miffed that all the faschy groups here keep naming themselves "Blank spaces" for liberty. Like any of these waspy yokels would recognize liberty in a line up if it wasnt made out of green rusted copper and wearing a wet toga. The thing that frustrates me is how tragically easy it would be to go to a better system, but too many families are haunted by too many ghosts that died to preserve the SQ, which in and of itself is impossible. The 34, and 35 Rules of Acquisition are clear, both war and peace are good for business. The only thing that isnt is a population that recognizes that everyone is selling something and is disinclined to buy fresh bullshit today. Fuck me the rich would rather risk a robot uprising than a fair wage for a days work. So technically we're bitching about the weather naked. Such is life I suppose.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

Speaking of change, lets see how cynical Ive become, The mind changing thing, Id love to be wrong about, but I remain reserved. Also just in case am speaking unintenionally obfuscated, I do believe people can change their mind. 100% I dont believe other people can do it for them however.​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah and if frogs had wings they wouldnt bump their butts, but alas, that just aint the world we live in. Regarding the bolded: You can break the bank on manipulation and influencers can whore out for profit till the cows come home, but at the end of the day its all just noise that a person chooses themselves to buy into. Brainwashing and marketing(same difference) is cradle to grave most everywhere, but mind changing, that comes from within. Always. Quite of few of them on stage now only work in a carnival game; and seeing as how you cant take the carnival games out of politics anywhere, we've never had any reps throw another into the garbage, as much fun as that; I'll grant you, would be. Regarding the italicized, you're underestimating how important the narrative that all "this is fine" really is to the vast majority of people. They'll cut off their nose to spite their face to preserve illusions as sacrosanct. Better places for your money here is largely considered the purview of off shore banking. Never underestimate how many people are willing to and expect everyone else to live and die on the status quo, even if its not. I still get miffed that all the faschy groups here keep naming themselves "Blank spaces" for liberty. Like any of these waspy yokels would recognize liberty in a line up if it wasnt made out of green rusted copper and wearing a wet toga. The thing that frustrates me is how tragically easy it would be to go to a better system, but too many families are haunted by too many ghosts that died to preserve the SQ, which in and of itself is impossible. The 34, and 35 Rules of Acquisition are clear, both war and peace are good for business. The only thing that isnt is a population that recognizes that everyone is selling something and is disinclined to buy fresh bullshit today. Fuck me the rich would rather risk a robot uprising than a fair wage for a days work. So technically we're bitching about the weather naked. Such is life I suppose.

Ok, but "all of this is fine" was something that was produced through media over the decades. Therefore you haven't really proven that you can't change minds of people. You have only proven that no one is really trying hard enough in that department. After all you can just google how certain things are done is some other countries (which have better results in various spheres). However most of your people are simply too static to do that. But that doesn't mean that there can't be any positive changes. In the end the choice is yours when it comes into what you are going to believe.

 

[The Cat]

Ok, but "all of this is fine" was something that was produced through media over the decades. Therefore you haven't really proven that you can't change minds of people. You have only proven that no one is really trying hard enough in that department. After all you can just google how certain things are done is some other countries (which have better results in various spheres). However most of your people are simply too static to do that. But that doesn't mean that there can't be any positive changes. In the end the choice is yours when it comes into what you are going to believe.

I'm not trying to "prove anything" to you, because there is nothing I can actually show you or tell you that will change your mind, all I could do is try to influence you, and I don't care what you choose to believe, anything that changes your mind, ultimately comes from inside you, your brain clicks itself. Keep in mind I'm autistic and Irish American, I've broken professionals who insisted they could change my mind. What ever may come along and tells you something that leads to you saying. "Well heck, I guess I'll change my mind." Nobody but you can take credit for the actual act of changing your mind, because even if someone torturted you till you told them what they wanted to hear, they still didnt change your mind, only you can do that. So its possible we're talking about two different things right now. But for my money, every mind change Ive ever witnessed in life, ultimately came down to a choice made by the mind in question. And regarding this is fine. That attitude existed before the media or the meme that made it popular. Its existed since the first people had to watch another person die in the jaws of a thing there was currently no defense against. Civilization is a gentleman's agreement of ephemera that everyone chooses to believe is something solid. Make of it what you will, but the more you try to debate this point the more you prove it. I cant change your mind. Only you can.

 

[The Cat]

And yes, I've been told I'm the reason so and so needs to drink to relax.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm not trying to "prove anything" to you, because there is nothing I can actually show you or tell you that will change your mind, all I could do is try to influence you, and I don't care what you choose to believe, anything that changes your mind, ultimately comes from inside you, your brain clicks itself. Keep in mind I'm autistic and Irish American, I've broken professionals who insisted they could change my mind. What ever may come along and tells you something that leads to you saying. "Well heck, I guess I'll change my mind." Nobody but you can take credit for the actual act of changing your mind, because even if someone torturted you till you told them what they wanted to hear, they still didnt change your mind, only you can do that. So its possible we're talking about two different things right now. But for my money, every mind change Ive ever witnessed in life, ultimately came down to a choice made by the mind in question. And regarding this is fine. That attitude existed before the media or the meme that made it popular. Its existed since the first people had to watch another person die in the jaws of a thing there was currently no defense against. Civilization is a gentleman's agreement of ephemera that everyone chooses to believe is something solid. Make of it what you will, but the more you try to debate this point the more you prove it. I cant change your mind. Only you can.

Ok, but here we have a problem of definitions and possibly a big cultural difference. It is true that in the end a certain person has to internally change their opinion. However that isn't full story. Since in general someone has to provide them with alternatives in order to start the internal calculation on things. Even if you read books or the internet that is in the end someone else's opinion. I openly admit that I have changed my mind as better picture was present to me. There is no real shame in that.

 

[The Cat]

Ok, but here we have a problem of definitions and possibly a big cultural difference. It is true that in the end a certain person has to internally change their opinion. However that isn't full story. Since in general someone has to provide them with alternatives in order to start the internal calculation on things. Even if you read books or the internet that is in the end someone else's opinion. I openly admit that I have changed my mind as better picture was present to me. There is no real shame in that.

Agreed on all points. The full story is always much bigger, and the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I enjoyed how we were able to come to a mutual understanding. I acknowledge I can get hyper fixated with certain aspects of certain things, I think because growing up they were elements of some confusion socially; I dont consider things like this wasted time because the conversation and the resolution point to how well people motivated to come to a mutual understanding can do so dispite misunderstanding and big cultural differences. It's always fascinating to hear how other people from other places do things and how we're percieved over here. What is shocking to me is how many of my fellow americans seem so invested in what to me seems like madness that no one with an ounce of forethought could possibly conceive as a good idea. Real Cr@zy Sh!t that people do like its normal because everyone's so tired and traumatized that common sense looses all sense of common meaning. A big part of me blames reality television, but the truth is all it did was cater to something that was always there, but we're conditioned to not notice it and once noticing it, not talking about it. It's truly a phenomenon to me. I have changed my mind from where I was to where I am now and I owe a lot of it to conversationists reaching out to me from where they were to where I was and often times just pointing out what was always true, that there was another option other than the narrative as advertised to me. There's big money being made here creating echo chambers and frontlining useless distractions to pull focus from dire consequences of inaction and by and large. People here just don't know and don't care to peer behind the facade. On account of thats the closed door behind which all that begging, crying and screaming is coming from, and nobody wants to be "that guy" who by opening the wrong and asking the wrong questions destroys the American dream for the whole world. <--That last part is sarcasm but not as much as I'd like it to be. While the rest of the world has pretty much come to agree that healthcare is a universal human right, portions of my country still cant agree on what makes an actual human being a human being or a (god save us) NPC. I often wonder if we sound like Benn Gunn to people from other places. Because so many of us have been marooned on this island for all these years and it's nucking futs what we're willing to pass off as totally normal or not our business. As always, thanks for the conversation. I always enjoy your perspective.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Agreed on all points. The full story is always much bigger, and the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I enjoyed how we were able to come to a mutual understanding. I acknowledge I can get hyper fixated with certain aspects of certain things, I think because growing up they were elements of some confusion socially; I dont consider things like this wasted time because the conversation and the resolution point to how well people motivated to come to a mutual understanding can do so dispite misunderstanding and big cultural differences. It's always fascinating to hear how other people from other places do things and how we're percieved over here. What is shocking to me is how many of my fellow americans seem so invested in what to me seems like madness that no one with an ounce of forethought could possibly conceive as a good idea. Real Cr@zy Sh!t that people do like its normal because everyone's so tired and traumatized that common sense looses all sense of common meaning. A big part of me blames reality television, but the truth is all it did was cater to something that was always there, but we're conditioned to not notice it and once noticing it, not talking about it. It's truly a phenomenon to me. I have changed my mind from where I was to where I am now and I owe a lot of it to conversationists reaching out to me from where they were to where I was and often times just pointing out what was always true, that there was another option other than the narrative as advertised to me. There's big money being made here creating echo chambers and frontlining useless distractions to pull focus from dire consequences of inaction and by and large. People here just don't know and don't care to peer behind the facade. On account of thats the closed door behind which all that begging, crying and screaming is coming from, and nobody wants to be "that guy" who by opening the wrong and asking the wrong questions destroys the American dream for the whole world. <--That last part is sarcasm but not as much as I'd like it to be. While the rest of the world has pretty much come to agree that healthcare is a universal human right, portions of my country still cant agree on what makes an actual human being a human being or a (god save us) NPC. I often wonder if we sound like Benn Gunn to people from other places. Because so many of us have been marooned on this island for all these years and it's nucking futs what we're willing to pass off as totally normal or not our business. As always, thanks for the conversation. I always enjoy your perspective.

The reason why I pushed you a little bit here is because I am from environment/culture that is much more co-op. What means that people are much less stubborn about details of their beliefs. After all here across the Atlantic we are paying each others medical bills for generations through socialized medicine. We are even doing the same when it comes pushing our kids through college. What is why I don't think that people are fundamentally stubborn as you are making them to be. Since here you are much more socially interlinked and thus much less likely to get lost in some rabbit hole. Which is because you have the system to which you can talk without any extra charging. So my point was simply that it is possible to organize society differently. The person must think things through in what to believe but just ignoring everyone that suggests something different is a very risky move. However this is exactly where hardcore individualism leads. As I said a number of times over the years here: possibly the main problem of American culture is that it struggles to tell the difference between "freedom" and "you are on your own". Even if the difference between the two are huge once you scratch the surface. In other words the logic of the system starts to fall apart when you don't want to be on your own anymore. What generally leads to closed circle of paranoia and isolation ... and eventually stubborn worldviews.

 

[Virtual ghost]

RCP average of polls:


Trump: 59.8
DeSantis: 13.5
Haley: 10.5
Ramaswamy: 4.7
Christie: 2.5
Bergum: 0.8
Hutchinson: 0.4


I think this is a done deal.
Possibly the biggest question that remained here is can Haley manage to get to the second place and get a VP slot.

 

[Virtual ghost]

 

[The Cat]

RCP average of polls:


Trump: 59.8
DeSantis: 13.5
Haley: 10.5
Ramaswamy: 4.7
Christie: 2.5
Bergum: 0.8
Hutchinson: 0.4


I think this is a done deal.
Possibly the biggest question that remained here is can Haley manage to get to the second place and get a VP slot.

She doesnt have DSL so my vote is she won't get the invite. If she'd given the handjob to the right person Lauren Boeberts got a better shot at the VP than Haley, given by the general aesthetics kept by Dear Leader in the past and presently.

 

[Red Herring]

 

[The Cat]

And if you tell the average american these days that our news used to be more like your news, they wont believe it. They have forgotten. And its kinda spooky to me to be honest. I tend to think y'all over there tend to be more on guard for bullshit creeping into your public consciousness. I recall when the Daily show was America's most trusted news source.

I hope we survive the punchline.​