Random Politics Thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Here's a novel idea Mr Shcumer, instead of making commercials telling me about the horrible things republicans are doing and asking for my money to keep you in the senate in 2022, how about you actually do...anything...you and your boy Joe Cool...promised instead of just sucking off your esteemed colleagues across the isle while they do these horrible things. I swear there's some secret kinky S&M games between republicans and democrats, but the fact that so many of these con artists have enough people bilked out on either hope or fear to keep getting elected, suggests that the real masochists are the american voters.

I pretty much ignored any of the emails I got during the last election season telling me "OMIGOD Joe Biden needs your money" or Donald Trump will win, or "OMIGOD Amy McGrath needs your money". Don't these guys have the lobbyists they love so much to give them money? It's not like they advocate for policies that would make it hard for them to get wealthy/corporate donors, or that they'll start advocating for those things because I give them 50 dollars.

 

[Lark]

I pretty much ignored any of the emails I got during the last election season telling me "OMIGOD Joe Biden needs your money" or Donald Trump will win, or "OMIGOD Amy McGrath needs your money". Don't these guys have the lobbyists they love so much to give them money? It's not like they advocate for policies that would make it hard for them to get wealthy/corporate donors, or that they'll start advocating for those things because I give them 50 dollars.

I read about this, the raising of campaign finances apparently has eclipsed campaigning for peoples actual votes in US politics, how does this work?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I read about this, the raising of campaign finances apparently has eclipsed campaigning for peoples actual votes in US politics, how does this work?

I'm not convinced it does. Amy McGrath lost despite all the money that was raised; I believe she ran as a Republican lite. Not sure why anybody would vote for that when they could just get Mitch McConnell.

I'll bet a lot of people are getting rich off of it, though.

My dad gave money to Amy McGrath despite the fact that he's always going on about how he doesn't have enough money. I kind of rolled my eyes when I heard that. Probably if she won she would have been just like Sinema. I suppose it might have been good to get McConnell out of the picture but I'm sure they could find some other ghoul.

 

[ceecee]

I read about this, the raising of campaign finances apparently has eclipsed campaigning for peoples actual votes in US politics, how does this work?

They simply fundraise. Like this...

Incident A happens, media blows it up.
OMG The GOP /Dems are trying to take away your (insert thing)!!! Send $25 to stop the GOP/Dems!!!
Set person up for reoccurring payments without their consent (seen a few GOP candidates blatantly do this but it's a regular occurrence)
Wait for Incident B, rinse and repeat.

No campaigning necessary. No staff to hire, no unwashed constituents to deal with.

 

[ceecee]

I'm not convinced it does. Amy McGrath lost despite all the money that was raised; I believe she ran as a Republican lite. Not sure why anybody would vote for that when they could just get Mitch McConnell.

I'll bet a lot of people are getting rich off of it, though.

They had a great candidate, the Dem leadership told him to fuck off. They (Dems/McGrath) absolutely deserved to lose and badly.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

They had a great candidate, the Dem leadership told him to fuck off. They (Dems/McGrath) absolutely deserved to lose and badly.

I read that there was a great candidate, Charlotte Pritt who won the primary for governor against Joe Manchin in the 90s in West Virginia. (You know the book I learned this from). Joe Manchin and a bunch of other Democrats in West Virginia ended up supporting her Republican opponent. Pritt lost.

During the primary, Manchin had attempted to portray her as "anti-gun", in spite of her owning a shotgun and being a 12-year member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) at that time.[11][14][15] After the primary, a group known as "Democrats for Underwood", which consisted of West Virginia Democratic officials, refused to back her in the general election.[11] Pritt dismissed the defections as coming from Democratic officials "who would be Republicans in any other state anyway"

 

[Lark]

They simply fundraise. Like this...

Incident A happens, media blows it up.
OMG The GOP /Dems are trying to take away your (insert thing)!!! Send $25 to stop the GOP/Dems!!!
Set person up for reoccurring payments without their consent (seen a few GOP candidates blatantly do this but it's a regular occurrence)
Wait for Incident B, rinse and repeat.

No campaigning necessary. No staff to hire, no unwashed constituents to deal with.

This reminds me of when Louie Thoreau, either him or Mike Moore, did an episode about random mail shots in the US, I dont think they even actually asked for money explicitly and they got by return post money and all sorts.

I think the two things they sent out where a young couple announcing their marriage and how much it cost them and the other was a convict writing about going to prison and the misery their dependents would be left in. Though neither requested money. People sent money. Sometimes it was just a few dollars in the envelope but it all added up to hundreds.

So far as I remember the jist of the show was that this was a kind of scam, if people could organize a large enough mail shot but make it appear amateur enough that the "appeal" did not seem like an industrial scale effort they could cash in big. Its mad that US politics has taken this turn too, also that money has so much to do with who wins office and not popular support of some kind. Like that doesnt seem democratic. Not that its any different in the dynastic regimes of UK and EU.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'll be honest, there are some cases of murder and other crimes that I'm fine with the death penalty existing for, some people are so wicked in their actions that even if they could be redeemed they should just be killed.

I also think that there should be some means by which the NOK can be not simply invited to executions but to act as actual executioner. That's so that the not in my name people can be sure its not in their name, its the NOK actioning the penalty. I also think or hope that the NOK would want the evidence to be air tight and that they'd not be executing some sap while the real perp remains at large because of some police bullshit.

I'm okay with the death penalty inasmuch as it's only used where there's absolutely no doubt of guilt. Because our prisons aren't currently focused on reform. They're used to keep allegedly dangerous people away from the general population, and - for as inhumanely as that task is accomplished (to the point where it seems maybe death would be kinder) - it's also ridiculously expensive. IIRC, we could be sending these people to college on the taxpayer's dime for the same price (although by that point, it's like trying to put a band-aid on a limb that's set to be amputated). But lots of people *cough*implicit racism*cough* who were actually innocent have been deemed guilty "beyond reasonable doubt" by peers.

So on the one hand I agree, but I also absolutely do not trust the average person to understand "reasonable doubt."

Isnt that the only thing it ever really consistently delivers?

There's a big difference between directly expressed vitriol and using humor to express what's infuriating. The former throws gasoline on the fire and forces a stronger feeling of attachment to righteousness/anger, while the latter (when it's done well) can effectively diffuse anger and provide calming detachment. When it's done *super* well, it can expose the absurdity of everyone involved - not just the absurdity of the other side. I try to keep my feed limited to people who either express things empirically (no humor, but detached from specific normative evaluation, iow: direct but low on vitriol) or who are good at pointing out absurdity from the perspective that there's absurdity to be found on both sides.

 

[ceecee]

I'll be honest, there are some cases of murder and other crimes that I'm fine with the death penalty existing for, some people are so wicked in their actions that even if they could be redeemed they should just be killed.

I also think that there should be some means by which the NOK can be not simply invited to executions but to act as actual executioner. That's so that the not in my name people can be sure its not in their name, its the NOK actioning the penalty. I also think or hope that the NOK would want the evidence to be air tight and that they'd not be executing some sap while the real perp remains at large because of some police bullshit.

Death penalty is immoral and should be abolished period, no negotiating. Far too much room for error, political maneuvering and state sponsored genocide.

Eugene Clemons May Be Ineligible for the Death Penalty. A Rigid Clinton-Era Law Could Force Him to Be Executed Anyway. — ProPublica

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I read about this, the raising of campaign finances apparently has eclipsed campaigning for peoples actual votes in US politics, how does this work?

It isn't that it's eclipsed actual votes directly, but the amount of money being poured into campaigns tends to be directly proportional to wins. It isn't about who is the best candidate, it's about whose campaign is most well-funded. (Because the most money = best PR to influence people). This is why dark money (sneaky ways for individuals to donate more than maximum individual allowance) and corporate donations need to go, and why Republicans are fighting so hard to keep them; corporations and billionaires buy the candidate who will give them the biggest tax breaks/lowest regulations PR that makes people vote against their own interest.

Case in point:

They had a great candidate, the Dem leadership told him to fuck off. They (Dems/McGrath) absolutely deserved to lose and badly.

It's why Jamie Whatshisface lost the Dem primaries to McGrath. If campaign finance was vigilantly fair (no dark money, etc), I don't think she would have won. ETA And Shitface McConnel almost certainly would not have.

 

[Totenkindly]

It's why Jamie Whatshisface lost the Dem primaries to McGrath. If campaign finance was vigilantly fair (no dark money, etc), I don't think she would have won. ETA And Shitface McConnel almost certainly would not have.

I think it was Booker she ran against in the primary. Jaime Harrison was running against Graham in SC.

 

[prplchknz]

A flag is a piece of fabric it does not make one a patriot just because they hang one off their front porch. What makes one a patriot is giving a shit about the people who make up the population yes everyone even minorities

 

[Burning Paradigm]

The discovery of the mass grave of Indigenous children in Canada shows it doesn't have moral superiority over the US in terms of historical racism and its tangible impact on the present day, and (some) Canadians should stop acting as if that's the case.

Clowning our healthcare system is one thing (and a well-deserved thing). Clowning us for issues with systemic racism and racist incidents is hypocritical (by Canada and Europe). The conditions and history may have differences, but the results are similar.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I think it was Booker she ran against in the primary. Jaime Harrison was running against Graham in SC.

When I was growing up my mom would yell out a string of names until she got the one she was trying to remember (...for my sister and I, she'd go through half the pet's names first). I'm starting to get why.

(In my defense, McConnell/Graham; poTAYto/poTAHto. Though I do specifically remember liking "the guy who lost primary to McGrath").

 

[Virtual ghost]

MSM will always have their own stories.
But are there any practical signs that US plans some larger reindustrialization effort ? (what is basically the only real way to truly get out of this mass)

 

[Lark]

The discovery of the mass grave of Indigenous children in Canada shows it doesn't have moral superiority over the US in terms of historical racism and its tangible impact on the present day, and (some) Canadians should stop acting as if that's the case.

Clowning our healthcare system is one thing (and a well-deserved thing). Clowning us for issues with systemic racism and racist incidents is hypocritical (by Canada and Europe). The conditions and history may have differences, but the results are similar.

Who is doing that?

Everyone's got enough skeletons in the closet that they need to point out others, this kind of think is endemic, globally, I think the world has only very slowly reached this point that these things are even admitted or discovered and when they do there's usually a huge bit of self-congratulation about it "oh, that's the catholics", "oh, that's the older generation, nothing like that happens now", "oh, that's the religious, thank god we are liberal" etc. etc.

It all allows it to carry on. As it is carrying on.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Who is doing that?

Everyone's got enough skeletons in the closet that they need to point out others, this kind of think is endemic, globally, I think the world has only very slowly reached this point that these things are even admitted or discovered and when they do there's usually a huge bit of self-congratulation about it "oh, that's the catholics", "oh, that's the older generation, nothing like that happens now", "oh, that's the religious, thank god we are liberal" etc. etc.

It all allows it to carry on. As it is carrying on.

My sentiment was spurred by a couple of online interactions, I wasn't trying to imply it was a widespread problem or anything beyond anecdotal. But, you're right, the self-congratulation of "Oh, well, that doesn't happen anymore, thank God. Our foundations are still intact." allows this stuff to continue.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The tendency of politicians and media on the right to see *any* consequences for them as "cancel culture" but consequences they dispense themselves as righteous really has gone beyond tedious. Are there any famous conservative personalities who don't do this?

 

[ceecee]

The tendency of politicians and media on the right to see *any* consequences for them as "cancel culture" but consequences they dispense themselves as righteous really has gone beyond tedious. Are there any famous conservative personalities who don't do this?

Victim mentality is an essential component of modern conservatism. How else could they manufacture outrage on a daily basis?

A Stanford Law student can't graduate because he mocked the Federalist Society.

While it's good that Stanford got it's head out of it's ass - this might be a good time to remind people that there is an entire conservative school of thought that maybe should be paid attention to. Amy Coney Barret is one reason, so is Brett Kavanaugh. But unless something happens, The Federalist Society is just some faceless group of lawyers no one cares about.

 

[Lark]

Victim mentality is an essential component of modern conservatism. How else could they manufacture outrage on a daily basis?

A Stanford Law student can't graduate because he mocked the Federalist Society.

While it's good that Stanford got it's head out of it's ass - this might be a good time to remind people that there is an entire conservative school of thought that maybe should be paid attention to. Amy Coney Barret is one reason, so is Brett Kavanaugh. But unless something happens, The Federalist Society is just some faceless group of lawyers no one cares about.

Of both conservatism and liberalism then.

Its still mainly American conservatism and liberalism at this point but it spreads from there.