Random political thought thread.

[ceecee]

I don't know who needs to hear this but the stock market is not the economy. There is no correlation between the market and GDP.

 

[Dreamer]

I don't know who needs to hear this but the stock market is not the economy. There is no correlation between the market and GDP.

Human psychology. People’s spending habits can change via emotionally-driven selections. The “market” is abstract and theoretical, but how people perceive will ultimately drive real results. It’s a loose correlation, but one I do believe exists.

 

[Red Memories]

I don't know who needs to hear this but the stock market is not the economy. There is no correlation between the market and GDP.

This is one thing my grandpa brings up correctly - he says the stock market has nothing to do with the real health of the economy, and a good hunk of it is a game of risk anyway that has a lot of fraud correlated to it...

 

[ceecee]

This is one thing my grandpa brings up correctly - he says the stock market has nothing to do with the real health of the economy, and a good hunk of it is a game of risk anyway that has a lot of fraud correlated to it...

It's entirely socialized at this point, so are large banks.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/20...ive-with-a-permanently-socialist-stock-market

Wall Street Is High on Government Supply

It's all optics, it's all for the perception of a healthy economy. It always has been and that's a lie. One people should stop believing.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

When I saw that vid in my feed I was like - do I have to?

 

[The Cat]

When I saw that vid in my feed I was like - do I have to?

Nobody wants to have to talk About Ted Cruz, except for Ted Cruz.

 

[The Cat]

Ted Cruz is so in love with Freedom
At least all his donors tell him so
And while he thinks that Trump's a very special President
It's probably not the way he'd choose to go
But a lifetime of longing looks
Would cause too much distraction
Good thing that he's not gay anymore

[Refrain]
Ted Cruz is Ted Cruz crazy
Just be glad it's him, not you
If you had Ted Cruz's troubles
You might be Ted Cruz crazy, too
You'd flash your big white shiny smile
And buy expensive shoes
But you'd be the only man on Earth
Who could enjoy Ted Cruz, oh no
You could enjoy Ted Cruz

 

[Jaguar]

Philly DA Krasner said that his office is continuing to work with its partners "in law enforcement and government to ensure every voter gets to vote and that every vote is counted,” Krasner said. “Keep your Proud Boys, goon squads, and uncertified ‘poll watchers’ out of our city, Mr. President. Break the law here, and I’ve got something for you.”

Behave Donnie. Krasner might put his foot up your ass.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Here is where I have to kinda object, just if you don't like your system that doesn't mean you are one of those that where the most iconic enemies of that system. It can be but there are alternatives.
In other words you can be generally against uncontrolled laissez-faire without going far to the left. Although in English speaking countries that is kinda controversial position: Anti laissez-faire centrism or right wing. Therefore how does that work ? In the name of our national sovereignty, Christian values, personal freedoms and well being of our people we demand that access to healthcare is declared a human right, that big foreign corporations don't have all the say here, that water supply remains common good and that education costs little (Since stupid/ignorant people can't really be independent).


This is just food for thought.

The reason the system doesn't work is because we have never been the United States in any real sense. The guiding principles of this country were drafted by property-owning, wealthy Englishmen who believed in rights for only themselves and everyone else who was exactly like them. Now, as we've become more diverse in every way imaginable, i.e. religious affiliation, racial / ethnic background, regional disparities, cultural mores, urban vs. rural - the country has become hopelessly fractured by petty ideological skirmishes, ongoing police brutality, increasing militarization, ghettoization / gentrification, underemployment / unemployment, an ever-widening wealth gap and a crumbling social security framework. The things you mention, like the right to healthcare and a low-cost education, a reliable water supply, etc. might be par for the course, something everybody in your own country can agree on (you're from Europe, I take it?) but that just isn't the case here, and frankly, never was. The U.S. was always, and still is, an oligarchy set up to benefit the rich and powerful. The rest of us have to work damned hard to have even a few meager crumbs of that pie. The people who get a tiny sliver of the pie (bourgeoisie) outright hate the people getting just crumbs, and feel like we should merely be grateful for the crumbs. And since our wages are in the toilet, you're dealing with a primarily debt-based economy here. The GDP is high, but that's an artificial measure of prosperity. Sorry to wreck your view of the U.S., but we are pretty much irretrievably broken as a country and on the verge of a second Civil War. The signs of collapse are made even more apparent during the coronavirus pandemic, with people such as my sister unable to receive unemployment benefits, even when the school she taught at closed its doors due to lack of funding / budgetary concerns. When I hear of people who are able to get on unemployment / "the dole," I almost can't believe how they managed to do it. Freelancers / the self-employed, like myself, have even less economic stability. I live in constant fear of having my low-cost healthcare coverage / "Obamacare" (a little over a $100 a month) stripped from me by this vile administration. (Note: I'm not exactly applauding Obama, because he imposed a stiff penalty in the form of a fine for those who didn't obtain coverage under the Affordable Care Act, which penalized a lot of people who were simply unable to find the correct coverage in their state from an insurance company that met their health needs and was actually, you know, affordable.) To pay for a routine doctor visit (annual wellness exam) out of pocket (without health insurance) can be astronomical, to say nothing of seeing a specialist or requiring certain treatments. I'm thankfully young and in very good health, but what if I got cancer? A scary prospect. Most people's consumer debt / bankruptcies here are due to outrageous, unexpected medical costs for treating conditions like cancer, which none of us can exactly predict. We aren't all out here buying Hermes bags.

P.S. In regards to big, foreign corporations, China has us by the balls. Time to settle up with them and move manufacturing back to the U.S. But there'd be no more Walmart (and I say good riddance).

 

[Virtual ghost]

The reason the system doesn't work is because we have never been the United States in any real sense. The guiding principles of this country were drafted by property-owning, wealthy Englishmen who believed in rights for only themselves and everyone else who was exactly like them. Now, as we've become more diverse in every way imaginable, i.e. religious affiliation, racial / ethnic background, regional disparities, cultural mores, urban vs. rural - the country has become hopelessly fractured by petty ideological skirmishes, ongoing police brutality, increasing militarization, ghettoization / gentrification, underemployment / unemployment, an ever-widening wealth gap and a crumbling social security framework. The things you mention, like the right to healthcare and a low-cost education, a reliable water supply, etc. might be par for the course, something everybody in your own country can agree on (you're from Europe, I take it?) but that just isn't the case here, and frankly, never was. The U.S. was always, and still is, an oligarchy set up to benefit the rich and powerful. The rest of us have to work damned hard to have even a few meager crumbs of that pie. The people who get a tiny sliver of the pie (bourgeoisie) outright hate the people getting just crumbs, and feel like we should merely be grateful for the crumbs. And since our wages are in the toilet, you're dealing with a primarily debt-based economy here. The GDP is high, but that's an artificial measure of prosperity. Sorry to wreck your view of the U.S., but we are pretty much irretrievably broken as a country and on the verge of a second Civil War. The signs of collapse are made even more apparent during the coronavirus pandemic, with people such as my sister unable to receive unemployment benefits, even when the school she taught at closed its doors due to lack of funding / budgetary concerns. When I hear of people who are able to get on unemployment / "the dole," I almost can't believe how they managed to do it. Freelancers / the self-employed, like myself, have even less economic stability. I live in constant fear of having my low-cost healthcare coverage / "Obamacare" (a little over a $100 a month) stripped from me by this vile administration. (Note: I'm not exactly applauding Obama, because he imposed a stiff penalty in the form of a fine for those who didn't obtain coverage under the Affordable Care Act, which penalized a lot of people who were simply unable to find the correct coverage in their state from an insurance company that met their health needs and was actually, you know, affordable.) To pay for a routine doctor visit (annual wellness exam) out of pocket (without health insurance) can be astronomical, to say nothing of seeing a specialist or requiring certain treatments. I'm thankfully young and in very good health, but what if I got cancer? A scary prospect. Most people's consumer debt / bankruptcies here are due to outrageous, unexpected medical costs for treating conditions like cancer, which none of us can exactly predict. We aren't all out here buying Hermes bags.

P.S. In regards to big, foreign corporations, China has us by the balls. Time to settle up with them and move manufacturing back to the U.S. But there'd be no more Walmart (and I say good riddance).

I think I am posting here for too long that you need to explain to me all of this. However you are kinda missing my main point, which is that just because you believe in "Medicare for all" like program, free college and green new deal that doesn't make you some kind of a Marxist. When I hear this line of reasoning from American I simply find it kinda intellectually cringe worthy. What is because I live across the Atlantic and my right wing government is supporting medicare for all and we have that for many many decades. The same is for free college, while green new deal is in the phase of implementation. Therefore my point is that in my opinion Americans are risen into thinking that anarcho-capitalism is the only real capitalism. What for me is evidently false claim that has a fair amount of "con" in it. Therefore just if you oppose it that doesn't mean you are Marxist, that simply means you are no fan of anarcho-capitalism. Plus I want to say that by labeling yourself as "Marxist anything" you are directly lowering your chances that you will get what you want (and need). Therefore by your own words you want to reform and upgrade your local capitalism, not crash it (what is general Marxist position). What in the end makes a huge difference in rhetoric. Since regulated and balanced out capitalism is still capitalism regardless of what some of your countrymen think about it.



Kinda the same goes for saying that you are "Anarcho + something" leaning. Since Medicare for all or free college is pretty much the opposite of that. What is because that kind of a social program brings everyone at the table that is known as "the government". What is done with the desire that THE SYSTEM financially criss-crosses everyone in order to make sure that you can't fall bellow certain level (that is basically what people like you want). What can't really be anarchism of any kind since this is all mandatory regardless of how much benefit it can provide. The strength of such system is coming exactly for the fact that there are not many "buts" or "ifs" on the table. Since that allows equally rigid and certain implementation towards people in trouble. While anarcho means that you are going in the direction where you currently are, every man for himself and laws full of holes (so that you can game them with money). What is overall coming from the fact that you were all risen in anarcho-capitalist spirit, but you never realized that what is killing you is the anarcho part, not the capitalist part.


Sorry, it is in my nature to be honest.

 

[Jaguar]

Oregon could become 1st US state to decriminalize hard drugs

 

[Red Memories]

Oregon could become 1st US state to decriminalize hard drugs

I suppose it would be considered "decriminalizing" but saying you can either pay $100 fines or go to a free treatment center is not really complete decriminalization. I think it'd be an interesting project, albeit, I wonder how it would work. Do they go to prison anyway for not paying the fines and ignoring any and all help like some addicts do?

For others, perhaps it could be a road to seeking recovery without too much shame. I think it'd be interesting to see the future data on this type of thing.

 

[ceecee]

I suppose it would be considered "decriminalizing" but saying you can either pay $100 fines or go to a free treatment center is not really complete decriminalization. I think it'd be an interesting project, albeit, I wonder how it would work. Do they go to prison anyway for not paying the fines and ignoring any and all help like some addicts do?

For others, perhaps it could be a road to seeking recovery without too much shame. I think it'd be interesting to see the future data on this type of thing.

The point is not about recovery. The point is for it to no longer be a criminal act. Why would drug use EVER be a crime? Especially the way illegal drugs are classified, it's not equal across the board. So just like the 18th amendment was one of the stupidest things this country has ever done, it only ended up empowering organized crime, drugs need to be decriminalized.

We do not need one more person in prison or mandated rehab which is also jail, for drug use. But this needs to happen at the federal level so idiot states can't continue their punitive punishment fetishes.

 

[Red Memories]

The point is not about recovery. The point is for it to no longer be a criminal act. Why would drug use EVER be a crime? Especially the way illegal drugs are classified, it's not equal across the board. So just like the 18th amendment was one of the stupidest things this country has ever done, it only ended up empowering organized crime, drugs need to be decriminalized.

We do not need one more person in prison or mandated rehab which is also jail, for drug use. But this needs to happen at the federal level so idiot states can't do continue their punitive punishment fetishes.

I admit this is a slippery topic for me due to my extended family. My grandmother lived and died by the bottle, fucking up every life that needed her (i.e. my mother and her sister), and my aunt was a heroin addict who ended up dying of an overdose not long ago.

I should make it very known here: I am callous to drug and alcohol abusers. I am callous because I saw my grandmother RUIN people's lives with her actions. Anyone who says the only person an addict hurts is themselves is a liar and an asshole. My mother has emotional scars still from all the shit decisions she made. My aunt did as well. But my aunt ended up on a similar path. She cut off my mother who tried to talk to her and help her. She stayed with the guy who could provide her the drugs. She followed treatment long enough to get back and use again. And she died of a heroin overdose.

Of course it is hard to say, logically, taking a drug should be criminal. Criminalizing drug use or alcohol abuse at a time for that matter seems irrational. But I do find it quite depressing how many states considered alcohol shops essential, because they wouldn't be able to handle the amount of people who would come into hospitals due to intense withdrawal. This country has a substance abuse problem that young people are trying to normalize. I say that because many of them just feel any drug should be made legal so we can get the taxes from it, it is only their life anyway if they want to take drugs let them. All drugs should be legal it doesn't matter. I strongly disagree with this sentiment. They hurt themselves - their ability to succeed, their ability to really handle the void that causes them to take the drugs to begin with, to allow others to help them. They hurt others - the people who love them, innocent lives that may be affected when they rob someone for drug money or steal drugs from their dying parent. And I grow absolutely weary of the sentiment I should feel sorry for them because their disease. Most diseases are not something anyone consented to. Drugs are an actual choice. You choose to use the drug and continue to use it. To me addiction is a choice that becomes a disease, but the problem with addiction is in the same manner, you have to choose to stop and actually seek help the RIGHT way. Change your lifestyle. Choose different people who aren't druggies to hang out with. Most people rather just keep doing what they are doing and instead act like you should pity them or that you shouldn't care since it is "their life." If they don't care about how they fuck up their and others lives, why should I care about their situation either? It seems like an empty road.

What is really going to fix the drug problem? Especially if to them, decriminalizing may just be an "okay to do" signal for them? That's why I suggest perhaps this would be an interesting experiment for a state to try anyway - to see how drug users actually respond. Will it encourage them to seek help? Will it deter them and they'll argue it isn't illegal and it never should have been I can shoot up all I want?

tl;dr I am probably the wrong person to have an extensive debate with about illicit use of drugs since I am a callous person about it after watching addiction ruin people and their loved ones.

 

[Lark]

Oregon could become 1st US state to decriminalize hard drugs

Losing the war on drugs.

 

[FemMecha]

What do you need to survive the apocalypse? The pandemic? Election violence?
What can provide both ammunition and a healthy snack?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Losing the war on drugs.

Good.

I had to sit through lots of "drug education" bullshit in elementary school in the 90s. Like somebody getting high (which is an especially attractive option for poor people that feel they have no future) was the biggest evil facing the world. Undoubtedly drug addiction is a bad thing, but that drug education shit did not work. Likely it was just culture war bullshit and a way of reacting against the dirty hippies. Naturally the people in favor of it probably admired Wall Street types who were doing loads of coke, but hey, at least it wasn't crack, right? Don't try and tell me that Donald Trump never did coke.

 

[Jaguar]

It may sound like a radical concept even in one of the most progressive U.S. states — but countries including Portugal, the Netherlands and Switzerland have already decriminalized possession of small amounts of hard drugs, according to the United Nations.

Portugal’s 2000 decriminalization brought no surge in drug use. Drug deaths fell while the number of people treated for drug addiction in the country rose 20% from 2001 to 2008 and then stabilized, Portuguese officials have said.

Terrible. Horrible. Dreadful. I want more drug death, dammit.

 

[Red Memories]

Good.

I had to sit through lots of "drug education" bullshit in elementary school in the 90s. Like somebody getting high (which is an especially attractive option for poor people that feel they have no future) was the biggest evil facing the world. Undoubtedly drug addiction is a bad thing, but that drug education shit did not work. Likely it was just culture war bullshit and a way of reacting against the dirty hippies. Naturally the people in favor of it probably admired Wall Street types who were doing loads of coke, but hey, at least it wasn't crack, right? Don't try and tell me that Donald Trump never did coke.

I never experienced this because I didn't go to public school honestly. XD