Random political thought thread.

[Jaguar]

What do you need to survive the apocalypse? The pandemic? Election violence?
What can provide both ammunition and a healthy snack?

This is so fucked up I can't stop laughing. My cheeks hurt.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I never experienced this because I didn't go to public school honestly. XD

I wouldn't have any idea if that's still the case. That was decades ago.

 

[Jaguar]

I had no idea Obama was this funny.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think Obama pretty much retreated into the "mature, more serious" side of his persona at least in the public limelight much of the time, because he kinda had to -- everything had to be thought through and anticipated, because of the opposition. I know he did lighter things but I don't remember much filtering out in the mainstream news.

He also laid low during election season last time, trusting the process -- and that was a mistake in the end to not do anything at all (like with all the investigations going on, etc.) He is not really one to throw his weight around, he likes a certain level of detachment and not dominating a process. These are good things from an ethical standpoint but it also makes one more powerless to affect outcome for things one believes in. We see what happened with the whole judge/SCOTUS mess, by not fighting back tooth and nail.

He's not the current President so that frees him up a bit, plus I think he realized he needs to actually push for an outcome this time and use what weight he has. The situation is that big and dire. I have been happy to see him come forward and involve himself this time out.

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Hermit of the Forest]

 

[The Cat]

I admit this is a slippery topic for me due to my extended family. My grandmother lived and died by the bottle, fucking up every life that needed her (i.e. my mother and her sister), and my aunt was a heroin addict who ended up dying of an overdose not long ago.

I should make it very known here: I am callous to drug and alcohol abusers. I am callous because I saw my grandmother RUIN people's lives with her actions. Anyone who says the only person an addict hurts is themselves is a liar and an asshole. My mother has emotional scars still from all the shit decisions she made. My aunt did as well. But my aunt ended up on a similar path. She cut off my mother who tried to talk to her and help her. She stayed with the guy who could provide her the drugs. She followed treatment long enough to get back and use again. And she died of a heroin overdose.

Of course it is hard to say, logically, taking a drug should be criminal. Criminalizing drug use or alcohol abuse at a time for that matter seems irrational. But I do find it quite depressing how many states considered alcohol shops essential, because they wouldn't be able to handle the amount of people who would come into hospitals due to intense withdrawal. This country has a substance abuse problem that young people are trying to normalize. I say that because many of them just feel any drug should be made legal so we can get the taxes from it, it is only their life anyway if they want to take drugs let them. All drugs should be legal it doesn't matter. I strongly disagree with this sentiment. They hurt themselves - their ability to succeed, their ability to really handle the void that causes them to take the drugs to begin with, to allow others to help them. They hurt others - the people who love them, innocent lives that may be affected when they rob someone for drug money or steal drugs from their dying parent. And I grow absolutely weary of the sentiment I should feel sorry for them because their disease. Most diseases are not something anyone consented to. Drugs are an actual choice. You choose to use the drug and continue to use it. To me addiction is a choice that becomes a disease, but the problem with addiction is in the same manner, you have to choose to stop and actually seek help the RIGHT way. Change your lifestyle. Choose different people who aren't druggies to hang out with. Most people rather just keep doing what they are doing and instead act like you should pity them or that you shouldn't care since it is "their life." If they don't care about how they fuck up their and others lives, why should I care about their situation either? It seems like an empty road.

What is really going to fix the drug problem? Especially if to them, decriminalizing may just be an "okay to do" signal for them? That's why I suggest perhaps this would be an interesting experiment for a state to try anyway - to see how drug users actually respond. Will it encourage them to seek help? Will it deter them and they'll argue it isn't illegal and it never should have been I can shoot up all I want?

tl;dr I am probably the wrong person to have an extensive debate with about illicit use of drugs since I am a callous person about it after watching addiction ruin people and their loved ones.

What are you addicted to?

 

[Totenkindly]

The point is not about recovery. The point is for it to no longer be a criminal act. Why would drug use EVER be a crime? Especially the way illegal drugs are classified, it's not equal across the board. So just like the 18th amendment was one of the stupidest things this country has ever done, it only ended up empowering organized crime, drugs need to be decriminalized.

Another bit of history that should be taught in some kind of civics/history class, in a way that feels relevant / ties it to things we're facing today.

Like, damn, there seems to be a lot of things that we are currently repeating the mistakes of, simply because the average person isn't aware of their own country's history aside from very vague general platitudes or irrelevant details (compared to the meat of issues that would influence how one votes).

 

[ceecee]

Another bit of history that should be taught in some kind of civics/history class, in a way that feels relevant / ties it to things we're facing today.

Like, damn, there seems to be a lot of things that we are currently repeating the mistakes of, simply because the average person isn't aware of their own country's history aside from very vague general platitudes or irrelevant details (compared to the meat of issues that would influence how one votes).

It's the way things are taught. Then I hear chuds - it starts at home! Great but if the parents haven't been taught, how does that work? Blah blah blahaaaaa bootstraps or some ridiculous shit they always say and we are right back here.

I don't drink much. I had a husband that did and was all the terrible things addicted people can be. I have never once agreed with making alcohol illegal or jailing anyone for it's use.

 

[Red Memories]

What are you addicted to?

This question confuses me but if you are asking - I do not drink or do drugs.

 

[dunce]

Obama was so ticked off this elecection cycle:

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't drink much. I had a husband that did and was all the terrible things addicted people can be. I have never once agreed with making alcohol illegal or jailing anyone for it's use.

Same here, my father was a raging alcoholic since his teen years, lost his professional career in part because of it, spent 30 days in jail for repeated DUI offenses (which I consider very different than being jailed for merely drinking -- he was driving a car around while blitzed out of his mind and finally went to jail on his fourth offense), 3 days in a coma at one point, then finally died 7 years later due to health issues from the drinking... along with generating some pretty awful childhood and adulthood memories for the rest of the family.

But I don't consider jail or banning alcohol to be a solution to that. (My crazy right-wing religious aunt did, though; my uncle had a similar issue and they ended up divorcing and she kept trying to "save his soul," but I found her far less tolerable than him even with his drinking issue. She created more issues for my cousin with her beliefs and intolerance than he ever did.)

 

[The Cat]

This question confuses me but if you are asking - I do not drink or do drugs.

But what are you addicted to?

 

[Red Memories]

I'm not sure where I said drinking alcohol should be a criminal offense but this is what it spun into, okay then.

We obviously learned from the prohibition that this isn't a solution. Because also you aren't fixing the thing that makes people drink in the first place. So...

 

[Red Memories]

But what are you addicted to?

I'm inclined to say sugary drinks - because I drink a lot of those. XD

 

[ceecee]

I'm not sure where I said drinking alcohol should be a criminal offense but this is what it spun into, okay then.

We obviously learned from the prohibition that this isn't a solution. Because also you aren't fixing the thing that makes people drink in the first place. So...

I didn't spin it. Don't go down that road. I'm saying it shouldn't be criminal. Just like other drug use shouldn't be criminal. It means people should not spend one second in jail awaiting trial for possession or prison for a third strike for having some pot. Not talking about intent to distribute - that's entirely different. The US criminalized alcohol with a constitutional amendment . It's simply the best example I can use to illustrate what I'm saying.

 

[The Cat]

I'm inclined to say sugary drinks - because I drink a lot of those. XD

It is fortunate for you that your addiction doesnt potentially make you a felon.

 

[Red Memories]

I didn't spin it. Don't go down that road. I'm saying it shouldn't be criminal. Just like other drug use shouldn't be criminal. It means people should not spend one second in jail awaiting trial for possession or prison for a third strike for having some pot. Not talking about intent to distribute - that's entirely different. The US criminalized alcohol with a constitutional amendment . It's simply the best example I can use to illustrate what I'm saying.

I kinda thought I said something without intent (I have accidentally been too vague and allowed the mind to wander before, it wasn't meant to be a direct attack, it was more asking to be informed why this was being tossed into it) because two people were now discussing that. XD

To be clear - I do not think criminalization of merely having the substance is going to fix substance abuse. But I am also not sure what will because some abusers refuse to accept or fix their problem. Also I think it should still be criminal to put others at risk with your usage (i.e. driving under the influence or using AND selling it to other people) but it seems a daunting task to try to figure out the correct solution for a drug problem existing.

I am well aware addiction has little to do with the substance itself, and more to do with whatever void you're attempting to fill. I just wish these people would let someone help. I think it is just years of frustration wanting loved ones to stop blaming their addiction for everything and truly get help for what got them addicted. I think there's too much emphasis on the drug itself being the problem and not enough on the personal problems of the person.

 

[Red Memories]

It is fortunate for you that your addiction doesnt potentially make you a felon.

Fair enough. Although my sugary drinks do not deprive me of certain cognitive ability if I use them in excess. XD

 

[The Cat]

Fair enough. Although my sugary drinks do not deprive me of certain cognitive ability if I use them in excess. XD

Don't be so sure...
40 Side Effects of Drinking Too Much Soda | Eat This Not That