Random political thought thread.

[The Cat]

Good on you son.

 

[ceecee]

Justin Mohn wrote book about Democrats and satanic cult

The man who allegedly killed his father and posted a video of him holding his decapitated head on YouTube is a self-published author.

www.newsweek.com

Compare and contrast stories.

Pennsylvania man arrested after father found beheaded inside home

A man was arrested Tuesday night after his father was discovered beheaded inside a bathroom in a home in Levittown, Pennsylvania, according to police.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Justin Mohn wrote book about Democrats and satanic cult

The man who allegedly killed his father and posted a video of him holding his decapitated head on YouTube is a self-published author.

www.newsweek.com

Compare and contrast stories.

Pennsylvania man arrested after father found beheaded inside home

A man was arrested Tuesday night after his father was discovered beheaded inside a bathroom in a home in Levittown, Pennsylvania, according to police.

www.foxnews.com

The Fox News article covers the story in a lot less detail, and doesn't mention the political aspect.

 

[The Cat]

Justin Mohn wrote book about Democrats and satanic cult

The man who allegedly killed his father and posted a video of him holding his decapitated head on YouTube is a self-published author.

www.newsweek.com

Compare and contrast stories.

Pennsylvania man arrested after father found beheaded inside home

A man was arrested Tuesday night after his father was discovered beheaded inside a bathroom in a home in Levittown, Pennsylvania, according to police.

www.foxnews.com

What worries me is how many people are going to completely miss the point because they think it'll never be their problem. Yeah it's never anyone's problem, right up until it is. We've got an awful lot of broken tools and weapons lying around just waiting to be picked up and programmed. What floors me is they're gonna find some way to make this about this guy being a crazy fanatic and the fact that he's just a dumb animal set on someone at the behest of another. This guy is gonna stand trial. Folks are gonna yell throw the book at him. He's an animal they'll say. Crazy. Deserves everything he gets. They'll become just a little more afraid of their neighbor, more cynical at this world we live in. Feel a little more helpless and a lot more hopeless. We put a dumb animal behind bars while the people who trained the dog to attack will pretend like they havent been betting on dog fights and laugh at how the dogs think they're people. And the cycle continues just a little bit more tragic than it was before.

No one will remember a single bad day or hectic moment where they've ever been anything but a perfect paragon of enlighted future people. Evolved, advanced "civilized" whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean in dystopia. It's such a long con it doesnt even need to put effort into pretending anymore. All this shit does is keep us afraid of our neighbor and distracted while the greed of human beings who can't recognize other human beings unless its in a mirror.

 

[SensEye]

The issue is that you don't view basic humanity as something you should afford every other human. Your views on the death penalty (which you don't have to worry about in your country) and say, immigrants and refugees, are identical. The views you express here are right wing/conservative. The fundamental distinction between conservatism and liberalism is the former’s commitment to moral inequality. Conservatives are simply more comfortable with the idea that people are unequal, and so should be treated unequally.

You've grossly oversimplified, but you have the gist of it right. I hold right of center political views on a number of topics. I am certainly no bleeding heart either. I do view basic humanity as something afforded to all human beings, but the devil is in the details of what one considers "basic". However, my political views vary from left to right on depending on the subject. Sure I am on the right regarding strict immigration regulation, and a firm justice system. OTOH, on subject such as socialized healthcare and abortion rights I hold views generally considered on the left. Those are just examples, mainly to demonstrate my views vary based on each issue depending on what I consider the most rational and reasonable position for both my well being and society over all.

You are a typical left wing social liberal, dare I say "woke", and you post your views here regularly as well. You suffer from the typical arrogance of the left, in that you feel your views are correct and virtuous, and anybody who disagrees with you is therefore incorrect and a bad person. I recognize your view as simply a different way of looking at things. Your views are a bit dogmatic and not logical in many instances from my viewpoint, but I don't consider you bad for holding them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

NATO chief: I’m not worried that Trump will pull out of the alliance

Judge for yourself.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You've grossly oversimplified, but you have the gist of it right. I hold right of center political views on a number of topics. I am certainly no bleeding heart either. I do view basic humanity as something afforded to all human beings, but the devil is in the details of what one considers "basic". However, my political views vary from left to right on depending on the subject. Sure I am on the right regarding strict immigration regulation, and a firm justice system. OTOH, on subject such as socialized healthcare and abortion rights I hold views generally considered on the left. Those are just examples, mainly to demonstrate my views vary based on each issue depending on what I consider the most rational and reasonable position for both my well being and society over all.

You are a typical left wing social liberal, dare I say "woke", and you post your views here regularly as well. You suffer from the typical arrogance of the left, in that you feel your views are correct and virtuous, and anybody who disagrees with you is therefore incorrect and a bad person. I recognize your view as simply a different way of looking at things. Your views are a bit dogmatic and not logical in many instances from my viewpoint, but I don't consider you bad for holding them.

I'm compelled to ask: what exactly is rational about the death penalty? It seems to me that it's usually motivated by the perception that "these people don't deserve to live", which almost always has very emotional arguments underlying it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This could be the shortest presidential primary ever

Just stating the obvious.

 

[The Cat]

In for a penny in for a pound, when lots of money's involved, there's no common sense to be found.​

 

[The Cat]

Do not be one here or there, do not be one anywhere.​

 

[SensEye]

I'm compelled to ask: what exactly is rational about the death penalty? It seems to me that it's usually motivated by the perception that "these people don't deserve to live", which almost always has very emotional arguments underlying it.

I would say they don't actually deserve to live (whereas I feel their innocent victims did). Regardless of that, they certainly do not deserve the resources required from society to warehouse them in prison for the rest of their life, nor the resources to attempt to rehabilitate them (which is probably impossible for deviants who have committed death penalty level crimes).

Conversely, what is the rational to keep them alive and warehoused until a natural death? It's either based on some religious principle (i.e. only god can decide) or some misguided sense of guilt that one might hold if they support the death penalty. The first argument I don't consider rational and the second is purely emotional.

 

[The Cat]

Riddle me this the cat said to the room: How many people do you need to legally kill a man, to send a convict to their doom? 12 randos off the street or 1 judge's opinion? How many would you want deciding whether you live or die based off of one tragic mistake.

Regarding the question of warehousing the cat said with a grin. It depends on what kind of business you're in: Come on down to Bob Justice's discount used humans they work all day for no pay and isnt it just so convenient. Or god forbid rehabilitation. taking in a broken thing and getting back a repaired and reintegrated one. Perhaps then the loss of life would be in some way mitigated rather than simply multiplying tragedy. But then that would require at least a passing familiarity with empathy or the ability to recognize another human outside of a mirror.

Isnt it fun everyone to never be misunderstood? Aint it great to have a say in your fate from one day to another? Because Justice is blind only more or less 1 third of the time, while the rest only goes to the highest bidder.

​

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I would say they don't actually deserve to live (whereas I feel their innocent victims did).

The idea that they do not deserve to live is, in your own words, based on something you feel.

Regardless of that, they certainly do not deserve the resources required from society to warehouse them in prison for the rest of their life, nor the resources to attempt to rehabilitate them (which is probably impossible for deviants who have committed death penalty level crimes).

I thought you might say this, but I thought I would wait for you to make this point before addressing it. My response involves perhaps some sentiment of my own:

I do not feel comfortable with utilitarian calculations being made on who is fit to live and who is not. I believe it's all too easy for the definition of "fit" to creep until we start targeting the mentally ill and the disabled. Once this argument about "resources required for them to live" is applied to one group (criminals), what stops this from being applied to the mentally ill and the disabled?

Conversely, what is the rational to keep them alive and warehoused until a natural death?

For me, I think bans against the death penalty are a safeguard against tyranny. They are also obstacles for those who wish to (knowingly or not) return to some of the social attitudes regarding disability present in the early 20th century. In the case of the latter, those attitudes were frequently couched in scientific language as a way of justifying those viewpoints. I don't mean this to disparage science (I've been interested in it before I could read), but it's in the historical record.

It's either based on some religious principle (i.e. only god can decide) or some misguided sense of guilt that one might hold if they support the death penalty. The first argument I don't consider rational and the second is purely emotional.

Secular humanism is also a thing. I would imagine they would be against the death penalty.

 

[Tomb1]

The notion that favoring the death penalty makes somebody white is ludicrous. And 46% of democrats polled supported it. That's nearly half the democrats polled....so even to assume somebody is a republican because they support the death penalty is a bit of a stretch

"Republicans and Republican-leaning independents" VS. "Democrats and Democratic leaners to favor the death penalty for convicted murderers (77% vs. 46%)....Majorities of White (63%), Asian (63%) and Hispanic adults (56%) support the death penalty, but Black adults are evenly divided, with 49% in favor and 49% opposed."

10 facts about the death penalty in the U.S.

Here’s a closer look at public opinion on the death penalty, as well as key facts about the nation’s use of capital punishment.

www.pewresearch.org

Allsides Media and MediaBiasfact check rates Pew Research Center right at the Center.

"Sources with an AllSides Media Bias Rating of Center either do not show much predictable media bias, display a balance of articles with left and right biases, or equally balance left and right perspectives."

Pew Research Center Media Bias Rating

Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of Pew Research Center. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.

www.allsides.com

"Overall, we rate Pew Research as Least Biased and Very High for factual reporting due to excellent sourcing."

Pew Research - Bias and Credibility

LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using an appeal to emotion

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[ceecee]

The notion that favoring the death penalty makes somebody white is ludicrous. And 46% of democrats polled supported it. That's nearly half the democrats polled....so even to assume somebody is a republican because they support the death penalty is a bit of a stretch

"Republicans and Republican-leaning independents" VS. "Democrats and Democratic leaners to favor the death penalty for convicted murderers (77% vs. 46%)....Majorities of White (63%), Asian (63%) and Hispanic adults (56%) support the death penalty, but Black adults are evenly divided, with 49% in favor and 49% opposed."

10 facts about the death penalty in the U.S.

Here’s a closer look at public opinion on the death penalty, as well as key facts about the nation’s use of capital punishment.

www.pewresearch.org

Allsides Media and MediaBiasfact check rates Pew Research Center right at the Center.

"Sources with an AllSides Media Bias Rating of Center either do not show much predictable media bias, display a balance of articles with left and right biases, or equally balance left and right perspectives."

Pew Research Center Media Bias Rating

Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of Pew Research Center. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.

www.allsides.com

"Overall, we rate Pew Research as Least Biased and Very High for factual reporting due to excellent sourcing."

Pew Research - Bias and Credibility

LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using an appeal to emotion

mediabiasfactcheck.com

That isn't what was said but this post is also very emotional as are most people that support capital punishment and the bigger scope of "law and order" punitive attitudes in the US that has not worked and never will work as far as reducing crime. It's something that makes people "feel" better - regardless of them being impacted by the crime. Incidentally, the Pew survey talks extensively about how capital punishment is being used less, death sentences are given less and so on. A much broader trend than simply how people feel online vs phone (also in the survey).

The death penalty is morally wrong and people that support are cheerleading for even more repugnant ways of taking a life (firing squad in Idaho, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Utah) lethal injections with untested chemicals as the companies that once supplied the chemicals no longer do as they have said publicly - "We do not condone the use of our products for lethal injections in capital punishment.” https://deathpenaltyinfo.org In the end, there is far too much room for error, which has been proved repeatedly. The death penalty carries the inherent risk of executing an innocent person. Since 1973, at least 196 people who had been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the U.S. have been exonerated. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence

The actual reason that this Pew survey has these results is because AMERICANS FEEL CRIME IS INCREASING. Regardless of study after study and data saying the opposite.

Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.

Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.

www.nbcnews.com

What the data says about crime in the U.S.

Federal statistics show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s.

www.pewresearch.org

And the numbers are even lower now. Where do these "feelings" come from? Not logic. Not data. Rhetoric whipped up by media, right wing media - pundits and politicians especially.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Americans think democracy is in peril in the 2024 election

Just saying the obvious.

 

[ygolo]

National Wear Red Day

Want to celebrate National Wear Red Day in style? We’ve got the best activities, ideas, discounts, and deals to make your day super sweet!

nationaltoday.com

Bringing awareness to heart health

 

[SensEye]

The idea that they do not deserve to live is, in your own words, based on something you feel.

I thought you might say this, but I thought I would wait for you to make this point before addressing it. My response involves perhaps some sentiment of my own:

I do not feel comfortable with utilitarian calculations being made on who is fit to live and who is not. I believe it's all too easy for the definition of "fit" to creep until we start targeting the mentally ill and the disabled. Once this argument about "resources required for them to live" is applied to one group (criminals), what stops this from being applied to the mentally ill and the disabled?


For me, I think bans against the death penalty are a safeguard against tyranny. They are also obstacles for those who wish to (knowingly or not) return to some of the social attitudes regarding disability present in the early 20th century. In the case of the latter, those attitudes were frequently couched in scientific language as a way of justifying those viewpoints. I don't mean this to disparage science (I've been interested in it before I could read), but it's in the historical record.


Secular humanism is also a thing. I would imagine they would be against the death penalty.

Yes, and your arguments are based on things you feel. Obviously, feeling and analysis are used by all human beings to form an opinion. I think your 'worries' about the disabled and such are pure nonsense. The same hue and cry is raised by the anti medically assisted dying crowd. Yet MAID has been legal (in Canada anyways) since 2016. I am certain not one disabled person has been unwillingly euthanized. It's pure emotion based fear mongering usually deployed when no reasonable data to support one's position can be found. However, if the mentally ill are murdering innocent and healthy and productive members of society, they have to be contained. Society does not have infinite resources, sometimes pragmatic decisions have to be made. I am always surprised at the almost zero concern for the victims. Their death is greeted with a collective shrug of indifference. It's like the ivory tower moralists think "well I committed no crime so who cares, but if I support the death penalty I might feel some guilt, best make my decision 100% based on protecting my own delicate sensibilities".

In any event, I didn't really want to go down this rabbit hole. It's another one of those issues I have opinions on, but it doesn't really influence my political decisions. Google tells me over the last 10 years in the US the number of death row executions is in the vicinity of 20-80 per year. Say 40 per year average or 400 total. That's not going to move the needle one way or another. Sure if the death penalty was legalized nation wide those number would go up. But to what I am not sure. My ideal implementation would clearly spell out what cases qualify for the death penalty and also apply a higher standard of guilt for a conviction (guilty by more than a reasonable doubt). So how many cases would that mean? 100 per year? 1000? I'm sure one could estimate based on a thorough study, but that would take some effort. More than I am willing to invest when my conclusions would have zero influence on public policy anyway.

 

[SensEye]

Americans think democracy is in peril in the 2024 election

Just saying the obvious.

This frustrates me in that if this is how they feel, what are they doing about it? Seemingly nothing. Step one would be to oust both Trump and Biden from the political stage, but both the primaries were pretty much a done deal before they even got started. That's absurd if only 28% of the population is satisfied with current governance.

That old chestnut about people getting the government they deserve has never rung truer.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This frustrates me in that if this is how they feel, what are they doing about it? Seemingly nothing. Step one would be to oust both Trump and Biden from the political stage, but both the primaries were pretty much a done deal before they even got started. That's absurd if only 28% of the population is satisfied with current governance.

That old chestnut about people getting the government they deserve has never rung truer.

That is kinda why I posted it in the first place.
It just doesn't make any sense even if the math is pretty clear.
The US has become pretty intellectually lazy and that is it.