Random political thought thread.

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That is kinda why I posted it in the first place.
It just doesn't make any sense even if the math is pretty clear.
The US has become pretty intellectually lazy and that is it.

The US is full of people who would only get up off their asses to demand change if you threatened their Coca-Cola supply or Szechuan Sauce or something like that.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The US is full of people who would only get up off their asses to demand change if you threatened their Coca-Cola supply or Szechuan Sauce or something like that.

I know, that is exactly why I said what I said.
However the rematch in 2024 is really on people, there is no one else at the fault here. People voting in primaries are just a tiny fraction of the population.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I know, that is exactly why I said what I said.
However the rematch in 2024 is really on people, there is no one else at the fault here. People voting in primaries are just a tiny fraction of the population.

Despite my earlier comment, I'm going to say something in favor of the American people and say it's not entirely on them.

If I explained why, I would sound like a broken record.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Despite my earlier comment, I'm going to say something in favor of the American people and say it's not entirely on them.

If I explained why, I would sound like a broken record.

This is on people and I stand by my words. You have convinced yourself that media, polls, establishment or whatever takes most part in the decision. In the case that the democratic voters and those none voters that lean towards them have organized large peaceful rallies around the country that they want better and younger candidate they would get it. Since the establishment would realize that they can't win with Biden (so they would have to find better and younger version of him). Hell, even all of the polls are suggesting that doing this is actually pretty good idea. While with that switch the odds of Trump winning would probably become pretty slim. While in the case that Republicans have done the same you would basically have the reverse scenario.


Feel free to take a look at Ukraine, in the case that the people said "ok" all of this would be over in 2 weeks with or our without any international help. However the people said no and the country stands despite the odds that are really against them. While what you needed to do is slight inconvenience next to the what people around the world have to go through to get the job done.


You have all become bystanders in your destiny and in the end that is indeed on you.

 

[The Cat]

You got a little schmutz in the corner of your mouth there...

 

[The Cat]

Don't anyone go getting too excited seeing us all go to hell. We'll see you there with us soon enough...
That is of course apart from that magical little word so many need to remember before it really is too late:
Unless.​

To the voters at home and abroad; for fuck sake vote for the side that's not trying to pull a fascism. Whether you like thinking about old people or not. Whether you feel democrats give you everything your little filled to bursting hearts desire or fucking not. They're the side not trying to pull a fascism on the rest of us. As my drill sergeant used to say: Grab hold of your ears, say 'Pop' and now that you've pulled your heads out of your ass get your heads in the game your asses out on the field and get to fucking work like your lives depend on it, because fun fucking fact ladies: They do. Now get your asses in gear and fucking MOVE.

Make sure you're registered to vote now.
And fucking vote blue. Tell your friends, tell your family. find out the voting laws in your state and make a plan in February so that you don't get fucked in November.


And one more random political thought. If your "leftist" news source is acting like a right wing outlet trying to convince you to waste your vote or divide you from the guy who isnt an authoritarian...Consider you might be in a psy op or listening to someone who's been paid a lot of money to sell you out. There's grifters on the left as sure as a bass ackwards purity test problem. Divide and conquer is being used against you. Hell. Divide and conquer is whats being used against all of us. Its how we got in this mess in the first place. Barrage people with a flood of lies and half truths and random facts people start to forget how to tell truth from lies and they go insane. But they can be herded like buffalo all the way over the cliff.

The writing is on the wall.

Repent... for the end is nigh.​

The Avalanche is ready to begin it waits only for the right catalyst.

Winter... has come.​

 

[Red Herring]

View attachment 30191
Don't anyone go getting too excited seeing us all go to hell. We'll see you there with us soon enough...
That is of course apart from that magical little word so many need to remember before it really is too late:
Unless.​

To the voters at home and abroad; for fuck sake vote for the side that's not trying to pull a fascism. Whether you like thinking about old people or not. Whether you feel democrats give you everything your little filled to bursting hearts desire or fucking not. They're the side not trying to pull a fascism on the rest of us. As my drill sergeant used to say: Grab hold of your ears, say 'Pop' and now that you've pulled your heads out of your ass get your heads in the game your asses out on the field and get to fucking work like your lives depend on it, because fun fucking fact ladies: They do. Now get your asses in gear and fucking MOVE.

Make sure you're registered to vote now.
And fucking vote blue. Tell your friends, tell your family. find out the voting laws in your state and make a plan in February so that you don't get fucked in November.


And one more random political thought. If your "leftist" news source is acting like a right wing outlet trying to convince you to waste your vote or divide you from the guy who isnt an authoritarian...Consider you might be in a psy op or listening to someone who's been paid a lot of money to sell you out. There's grifters on the left as sure as a bass ackwards purity test problem. Divide and conquer is being used against you. Hell. Divide and conquer is whats being used against all of us. Its how we got in this mess in the first place. Barrage people with a flood of lies and half truths and random facts people start to forget how to tell truth from lies and they go insane. But they can be herded like buffalo all the way over the cliff.

The writing is on the wall.

Repent... for the end is nigh.​

The Avalanche is ready to begin it waits only for the right catalyst.

Winter... has come.​

I was talking about this with my hubby earlier today and about how the civil rights movement back in the day mobilized people to get folks voting whom certain people preferred to not go voting. Maybe that's what's needed today. The country might look mighty divided but voter turnout is so low by international standards that there is a huge reservoir of people that just don't make their vote count.

Yes, I am aware that the system is tweaked and in many states people are actively discouraged from helping others get to vote (WTF!? Not being allowed to hand out water to people waiting in line to vote? Did I get that right?!)..... But at least this time around the chances of getting murdered by the goddam KKK while doing the good work has diminished somewhat.


And, yes, you guys still tend to set the trends. And whether or not you are onboard with missions affecting the entire planet like the fight against climate change or the pushback against authoritarian power grabs does matter.

 

[The Cat]

I was talking about this with my hubby earlier today and about how the civil rights movement back in the day mobilized people to get folks voting whom certain people preferred to not go voting. Maybe that's what's needed today. The country might look mighty divided but voter turnout is so low by international standards that there is a huge reservoir of people that just don't make their vote count.

Yes, I am aware that the system is tweaked and in many states people are actively discouraged from helping others get to vote (WTF!? Not being allowed to hand out water to people waiting in line to vote? Did I get that right?!)..... But at least this time around the chances of getting murdered by the goddam KKK while doing the good work has diminished somewhat.

Indeed. And yeah, in some places they try to make it so hard to vote; for being so allegedly hard for the constitution, they sure dont seem to have ever read it. Honestly sometimes with some people I think they just dont want to do as their asked or told, simply because they know there's a social expectation for a citizen to get out and vote. But we've been brainwashed here to believe that individualism at all costs is a smart way for social creatures to live. If I didnt know any better I'd say a lot of curses are coming to account in the 2020s but the sad fact of the matter is nostalgia really is the best bait to trap a human soul. And one way or another. Everyone seems to have taken the bait on some level. My hope is enough fish slip the hook that the fishermen realize that its not the best way to go fishing. Tbh Im just glad they haven't started fishing us with dynamite...yet.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You got a little schmutz in the corner of your mouth there...

As I said before I wasn't born in a democracy and thus I don't take it for granted. In other words you can't realize true importance of this social mechanism until you lose it. However at that point it is already too late. Therefore when you see some primaries where only about a few percentage of locals voted you indeed have to wonder what is with those people. Especially since in the primaries you have multiple choices (in most cases). Therefore there is no way that with some of these people you don't have at least 50:50 overlap. Plus if a half decent person wins in a primary you will even have someone to vote for in the general.

In other word I had to go through hiding from air strikes so that I could vote when I grow up. While someone is too lazy to drive 10 blocks in order to vote. I am sorry but your socio-economic problems are indeed on you. After all without participation of the messes democracy is falling apart basically by definition. While staying home is basically voting for just that.

 

[ceecee]

I was talking about this with my hubby earlier today and about how the civil rights movement back in the day mobilized people to get folks voting whom certain people preferred to not go voting. Maybe that's what's needed today. The country might look mighty divided but voter turnout is so low by international standards that there is a huge reservoir of people that just don't make their vote count.

Yes, I am aware that the system is tweaked and in many states people are actively discouraged from helping others get to vote (WTF!? Not being allowed to hand out water to people waiting in line to vote? Did I get that right?!)..... But at least this time around the chances of getting murdered by the goddam KKK while doing the good work has diminished somewhat.


And, yes, you guys still tend to set the trends. And whether or not you are onboard with missions affecting the entire planet like the fight against climate change or the pushback against authoritarian power grabs does matter.

There are a lot of people on the right that would gladly shoot anyone they think is doing good work.

Here's the thing. Republicans speak openly about unthinkable things like repealing Constitutional amendments. Just the ones they don't like of course. Women voting (19th) or slavery (13th) although slavery still exists all over the US as a form of prison labor as the amendment allows a broad interpretation of slavery for criminal offenses). This is in no way a fringe thing. The Speaker of the House of Representatives is incredibly problematic overall. He is a flag flying Christian Nationalist and all around fashy crank but his church is a real issue when it comes to slavery.

Mike Johnson’s Disturbing Ties to Slavery-Defending Christian Nationalists

The House speaker won’t exactly disavow the connection, according to a new report.

newrepublic.com

Enough people continue to not vote and the GOP will have the 2/3 needed to repeal these amendments and that's just for openers. But the amount of dumbass libs and non-voting people who still think there are checks and balances is enough to make you want to stab somebody.

I mean the Dems are a lot of things but I have yet to hear one talk about repealing amendments.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

View attachment 30191
Don't anyone go getting too excited seeing us all go to hell. We'll see you there with us soon enough...
That is of course apart from that magical little word so many need to remember before it really is too late:
Unless.​

To the voters at home and abroad; for fuck sake vote for the side that's not trying to pull a fascism. Whether you like thinking about old people or not. Whether you feel democrats give you everything your little filled to bursting hearts desire or fucking not. They're the side not trying to pull a fascism on the rest of us.

I agree with this.

As my drill sergeant used to say: Grab hold of your ears, say 'Pop' and now that you've pulled your heads out of your ass get your heads in the game your asses out on the field and get to fucking work like your lives depend on it, because fun fucking fact ladies: They do. Now get your asses in gear and fucking MOVE.

How might getting out in the field be relevant in a solidly blue state like Illinois? Primaries or gubernatorial I can see the value of. If I still lived in Pennsylvania, I wouldn't have any excuse.

As an aside, I'd love to read a really good book on electoral politics covering some portion of the period from 1960 through 1992. Election results looked very different back then; usually the winner would carry the majority of the states. It's entirely different from the way we talk about and conceive of it now.

Make sure you're registered to vote now.
And fucking vote blue. Tell your friends, tell your family. find out the voting laws in your state and make a plan in February so that you don't get fucked in November.


And one more random political thought. If your "leftist" news source is acting like a right wing outlet trying to convince you to waste your vote or divide you from the guy who isnt an authoritarian...Consider you might be in a psy op or listening to someone who's been paid a lot of money to sell you out. There's grifters on the left as sure as a bass ackwards purity test problem. Divide and conquer is being used against you. Hell. Divide and conquer is whats being used against all of us. Its how we got in this mess in the first place. Barrage people with a flood of lies and half truths and random facts people start to forget how to tell truth from lies and they go insane. But they can be herded like buffalo all the way over the cliff.

I mostly read the NPR website these days which I'm inclined to trust (they have decent coverage on Gaza, for instance), focusing primarily on topics of interest.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes, I am aware that the system is tweaked and in many states people are actively discouraged from helping others get to vote (WTF!? Not being allowed to hand out water to people waiting in line to vote? Did I get that right?!)

Yeah, there was a story like this a few years ago. I think this was in Georgia.

Point of the story: bring your own water.

 

[The Cat]

As I said before I wasn't born in a democracy and thus I don't take it for granted. In other words you can't realize true importance of this social mechanism until you lose it. However at that point it is already too late. Therefore when you see some primaries where only about a few percentage of locals voted you indeed have to wonder what is with those people. Especially since in the primaries you have multiple choices (in most cases). Therefore there is no way that with some of these people you don't have at least 50:50 overlap. Plus if a half decent person wins in a primary you will even have someone to vote for in the general.

In other word I had to go through hiding from air strikes so that I could vote when I grow up. While someone is too lazy to drive 10 blocks in order to vote. I am sorry but your socio-economic problems are indeed on you. After all without participation of the messes democracy is falling apart basically by definition. While staying home is basically voting for just that.

You can also realize it if you bond yourself in military service to it. But then being in the service aint exactly living free while you're in it. But I agree that there's a lot out there who need a reality check about the precarious nature of the things they never think anything about outside of bbqs once a year.

 

[The Cat]

I agree with this.



How might getting out in the field be relevant in a solidly blue state like Illinois? Primaries or gubernatorial I can see the value of. If I still lived in Pennsylvania, I wouldn't have any excuse.

As an aside, I'd love to read a really good book on electoral politics covering some portion of the period from 1960 through 1992. Election results looked very different back then; usually the winner would carry the majority of the states. It's entirely different from the way we talk about and conceive of it now.



I mostly read the NPR website these days which I'm inclined to trust (they have decent coverage on Gaza, for instance), focusing primarily on topics of interest.

You got phones that go across state lines don't you? But even in your own back yard, I promise its not as blue as you think is. The Field is where ever the game is being played or the battle's being fought. There's fields all around you playing games you'd be good at.

 

[Virtual ghost]

How might getting out in the field be relevant in a solidly blue state like Illinois? Primaries or gubernatorial I can see the value of. If I still lived in Pennsylvania, I wouldn't have any excuse.

It is quite simple really.

1. There are plenty of races down ballot, many of these will go to the other party if average amount of people votes. However if more people votes that should be less of a case. Plus from what I understand once you have large enough majority in a state you even get some extra powers. What makes fundamental changes much more easy,


2. From what I have seen Illinois is barely a soild state, so it probably still requires some nudges to get it to soild zone. In other words when party strategists are organizing campaign money they still have to spend some of it in a state like Illinois. Therefore when in soild state you would have very large turnout the strategists could in the start send all the money into an actual swing state. Since higher turnout would surely favor the democrats, especially in a blue state. The same goes for winning down ballot races in a blue state through higher turnout, it saves money that can go elsewhere. For example the key to winning Arizona could be in the voting habits of people in Illinois. Since they can free the money that could swing/win Arizona (which is a toss-up state). In other words when people in Marylend, Rode island and New Jeresy would do it like this there would be plenty of extra money that can go to Arizona and win it. I don't know exact numbers but you should get the idea how the mechanism works. If Illinois would become D+35 state like California that would surely change a few things.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You can also realize it if you bond yourself in military service to it. But then being in the service aint exactly living free while you're in it. But I agree that there's a lot out there who need a reality check about the precarious nature of the things they never think anything about outside of bbqs once a year.

True, going to Iraq for the sake of the flag should also do the trick. Which is realizing that some people are just too relaxed about all of this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Regarding the Illinois question.

Illinois Elected Officials


This is who represents the state. In other words if the state would become another 15 points more blue due to much higher turnout there would be even less of red in this mix. Plus many of these 200 races would become totally none competitive. The same goes for county level seats and city authorities. What would free the money that can be spent in swing states. Plus so much of the blue could inspire certain changes in surrounding states and house districts (some of which are competitive even as it is).


People need to start thinking about the big picture. Since that is what is actually winning continent size elections.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Good times bad times finally made a video about US.
Since this internal crisis is evidently linked to what will be going on in Ukraine (or Middle east for that matter).

when your favorite geo-political youtube channel starts covering your home it's never a good sign

Yeah.

 

[Tomb1]

As I said before I wasn't born in a democracy and thus I don't take it for granted. In other words you can't realize true importance of this social mechanism until you lose it. However at that point it is already too late. Therefore when you see some primaries where only about a few percentage of locals voted you indeed have to wonder what is with those people. Especially since in the primaries you have multiple choices (in most cases). Therefore there is no way that with some of these people you don't have at least 50:50 overlap. Plus if a half decent person wins in a primary you will even have someone to vote for in the general.

In other word I had to go through hiding from air strikes so that I could vote when I grow up. While someone is too lazy to drive 10 blocks in order to vote. I am sorry but your socio-economic problems are indeed on you. After all without participation of the messes democracy is falling apart basically by definition. While staying home is basically voting for just that.

USA leads the world in delivering Air Strikes (hiroshima, nagasaki, cambodia, gaddafi's house)....so that's not a bad thing the State is falling apart organically imo...the State takes the last word on big matters anyway and usually finds ways to bend the masses to its own agenda irregardless of how people vote. People's lives here probably end up just as structured as they end up in most dictatorships but here its accomplished without putting guns to people's heads.

the way i see it democracy with a state is a flawed system...corruption is a byproduct of giving power to politicians and ignorance is a byproduct of giving power to the masses....so neither representative nor direct forms of democracy work in any meaningful way.

 

[Virtual ghost]

USA leads the world in delivering Air Strikes (hiroshima, nagasaki, cambodia, gaddafi's house)....so that's not a bad thing the State is falling apart organically imo...the State takes the last word on big matters anyway and usually finds ways to bend the masses to its own agenda irregardless of how people vote. People's lives here probably end up just as structured as they end up in most dictatorships but here its accomplished without putting guns to people's heads.

the way i see it democracy with a state is a flawed system...corruption is a byproduct of giving power to politicians and ignorance is a byproduct of giving power to the masses....so neither representative nor direct forms of democracy work in any meaningful way.

I am pretty sure you are generally wrong in your approach to the topic. However I will openly say why I think that.


First off all in my book you are wrong about the the idea that US is example of representative democracy (or that the concept can't work). In other words US system is as it is exactly because not enough people votes. Today the fresh news is that Biden won South Carolina primary with 96% out of the 131 000 votes cased. Also the GOP will have their own primaries there in a few weeks and the number of votes will be some similar number. However Wikipedia says that South Carolina has 5.1 million people. So when we sum the numbers of both parties and minors we come to the logical conclusion " Where the heck is remaining 4 million people !?". In other words this answers your complains about representative democracy. Because in practice you don't have that, because in other to have representative democracy people actually have to vote. Therefore in they vote in larger numbers some kind of extra candidate would bubble up to the surface eventually. However the voters instead skip the primaries and then they wonder why they have two bad options in the general (and then they skip the general election as well in most cases). What basically leads to complete collapse of the concept that the people are and should be represented. However that simply isn't proof that representative democracy fundamentally doesn't work.



While another reasons why US isn't good example of genuine representative democracy is because it has only 2 relevant parties. In a normal healthy representative democracy any group of citizen can form their own party at any time (the process if kinda similar to starting a company). Plus the system should always be build in a way that becoming politically relevant is much more easy than in US. In US you need about 50% of the vote to get a house seat, while in my local European system you only need 5%. Which is exactly why I have 20 parties in the parliament. Therefore in a sense it can be said that this is even too much of diversity. However we have pretty affordable socialized medicine, complete ban on GMO food, government pays for college, streets with minimal crime, subventions for buying electric cars, and many other stuff average US citizen never even heard of. However all of that is because people show up on the election day when it matters. Yes, everyone has it's own problems but ours are still fairly mild when compared to what average Joe is going through in US. However none of those benefits and perks came on their own, people had to protest and vote for decades to get things where they are now. However all of that came to life because political culture of the people and the whole political system is organized in much more reasonable manner. So that the the whole loop is much more constructive. But it must be emphasized that the engagemnt of the people was what created this (and that isn't just the election day). While all the problems that exist in the system basically come from the lack of taking part in various processes. Because certain people are just intelelctually lazy, but luckly such people don't have critical mass (while in US they evidently do).



In other words multiparty system allows "awarding" bad parties with 0 seats. So if you suck and do nothing for the people they can wipe you out completely on the election day. Plus on the top of that there is the concept of snap elections. So if you really suck the people can torpedo you even before the end of your term. So you have to be careful when it comes to what you are doing when you govern. However since people can throw you out basically at any time there is less of those little checks and balances. What means that elected representatives have much easier time achieving what they have promised. What means that the fare share of policy is actually delivered. What in the end creates general trust in the system and that makes sure that reasonable amount of people votes. Since without voting democracy is automatically dead.



What altogether sums why I think you are wrong in this issue. In order to have representative government you first need to have people that will say what they want. As I said none of the perks or the mentioned political system came to life on their own, but instead they were build by citizens over time. What is absolutely vital element if you want to have meaningful results. Thus if you don't vote you will evetually get US style system (or something even worse). What is especially the case because all political figures act differently when it is obvious that people are paying attention. Since they know that they must not mess up what is following. Thus active public is vital in keeping the ship floating. However what just happened in South Carolina is basically in the domain of *crickets*.