Tiltyred
New member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2008
- Messages
- 4,322
- MBTI Type
- INFP
- Enneagram
- 468
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
The link to them is on this page: http://cognitivetype.com/profiles/fi.html
Thanks!
The link to them is on this page: http://cognitivetype.com/profiles/fi.html
Yes, great observation. There is that need to remain emotionally distanced, because you must remain relatively objective and able to make the tough decisions.Most of the above deals with a cool, aloof demeanor that seems dismissive of the joy or pain others are expressing. It's a resistance to being affected, so as to keep the purity of your own feelings. This is important for maintaining integrity at times & being willing to go against the tide & take a stand for what is right, but other times, it just makes you look cold, or a downer, or self-absorped, etc.
Yes, great observation. There is that need to remain emotionally distanced, because you must remain relatively objective and able to make the tough decisions.
But [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] I wouldn't be so freaked out by that, because, we still experience the feelings of pity or concern for others. We still internalise the emotive aspect, and acknowledge it, but we have to mentally separate the crucial data from the 'irrelevant details'. If we didn't do this we'd never be able to make decisions. We'd be stuck in the state of feeling sorry for everyone, or being worried about all the possible negative outcomes on individuals, or that people won't like us, or just endlessly regretting the fact that we ended up in this difficult situation in the first place - and all this would just completely paralyse us. IxFPs are naturally inclined to search desperately for win-win situations, but the real world doesn't work like that. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, accept that some negative outcomes are inevitable, and that in many cases, not everyone can win. Learning this is essential for gaining maturity in a IxFP - it's about finding a way to reconcile our natural idealism with realism.
I think you also need to realise that this is done on the foundation of strong principles. It is not the abandonment of empathy and decency, it is about surrendering to a 'greater good' (as much as I dislike the implications that phrase has) and more pressing form of decency. It is not based on shifting, unstable ground, where we just capriciously harden our hearts whenever it suits us. Hell, we may be shutting down our own feelings and preferences just as much.
Just in my experience of being me, nobody is automatically out to begin with, and it's not even that easy to get out. The only catch is that the "out" button might be somewhere you don't expect. Fortunately, it gets more forgiving with maturity.I'd rather not get into specifics but you hit the nail on the head with that bolded sentence. When you're "out", you cease to exist for the IXFP. The judgment has been made. It can be a bit shocking because others don't realize that side is there.
This is something I most definitely do, but I haven't ever consciously considered what it's for. This makes a lot of sense, though. It's also very validating of something that isn't outwardly easy for others to read.It's a resistance to being affected, so as to keep the purity of your own feelings. This is important for maintaining integrity at times & being willing to go against the tide & take a stand for what is right, but other times, it just makes you look cold, or a downer, or self-absorped, etc.
I wouldn't be so freaked out by that, because, we still experience the feelings of pity or concern for others. We still internalise the emotive aspect, and acknowledge it, but we have to mentally separate the crucial data from the 'irrelevant details'. If we didn't do this we'd never be able to make decisions. We'd be stuck in the state of feeling sorry for everyone, or being worried about all the possible negative outcomes on individuals, or that people won't like us, or just endlessly regretting the fact that we ended up in this difficult situation in the first place - and all this would just completely paralyse us. IxFPs are naturally inclined to search desperately for win-win situations, but the real world doesn't work like that. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, accept that some negative outcomes are inevitable, and that in many cases, not everyone can win. Learning this is essential for gaining maturity in a IxFP - it's about finding a way to reconcile our natural idealism with realism.
With respect to "shifting" or "unstable ground" though, do you admit that it can sometimes appear this way to others because of the complete about face nature of the decision relative to actions leading up to it (i.e., seems to come out of the blue).
I imagine it might look like there's no rhyme or reason in it, and that might make others nervous. I think the thing to remember is, that essentially IxFP objective distancing is the same as what TJs do (although, maybe done in reverse order? ). With the TJ version, the rationale is more externally defined and expressed, so it won't look so shakey and unpredictable. But there is a consistency to the IxFP approach, it just might not be immediately apparent to others.That's a great explanation.
With respect to "shifting" or "unstable ground" though, do you admit that it can sometimes appear this way to others because of the complete about face nature of the decision relative to actions leading up to it (i.e., seems to come out of the blue).
Yeah, my explanation probably leans more towards the INFP realm, but I think the basic idea still applies: Fi's subjectivity, complexity, passivity and idealism, being reconciled with Te's objectivity, certainty, definitiveness and activeness. Maybe you're right and ISFPs are less likely to be paralysed by choices but they can just as easily have the wary uncertainty. A good ISFP friend of mine is a lot less decisive than I am and worries a lot more when it comes to win-lose or lose-lose situations. I think with ISFPs it's simply that they think through each path one at a time and then when they perceive negatives, they move on to another - and when they've gone through multiple options without finding a win-win, they can start to get rather anxious. And I did emphasise it's a maturity thing for IxFPs. Many adult Fi-doms can develop those skills; in fact, I would say to be healthy one you have to, at least to some degree.Hmmm interesting interpretation, I read OA's response in a different way. I can't quite put it into words atm, but I want to note that what I think you're talking about here is generally more INFP so-dom than INFP-other-dom. And this feels more INFP than ISFP, I see the ISFP's in my life as being way less about the Ne possibilities, and therefore a lot less about win-win scenarios. Actually, they remind me that I need to stick by principles on occasion ... a quick example - an ISFP friend opposes the use of plastic disposable cutlery. She will NEVER use it. I on the other hand, although I oppose disposable cutlery in general, will use it on occasion when it is the most expedient and sensible option. So I see her as basically living out some aspects of her Fi values very seriously, when I at times will take into account more options in the moment and optimize. Her resolve sometimes makes me look at my own, which is kind of neat. And I think that works both ways, in that sometimes you do need to adapt to the many variables, and she sees value in that from my end.
At any rate, I do agree about the foundation of strong principles. It is very hard to explain what it's like to have your primary lens to the world be an ethical / valuing sense. How every experience, how every word heard or spoken, how every interaction, heck even eating breakfast in the morning and the clothes you wear is about how it feels and how it filters to the internal core of valuation. Is this right/wrong ... good/bad ... acceptable/unacceptable and THEN to figure out the whys of that feeling.
Will expand more later.
I think you also need to realise that this is done on the foundation of strong principles. It is not the abandonment of empathy and decency, it is about surrendering to a 'greater good' (as much as I dislike the implications that phrase has) and more pressing form of decency. It is not based on shifting, unstable ground, where we just capriciously harden our hearts whenever it suits us. Hell, we may be shutting down our own feelings and preferences just as much.
Oh, and I just wanted to say, in this example both your ISFP friend and you are basically attempting a form of emotional distancing and of tempering idealism with realism. She's remaining steadfast to her views and distancing herself from the temptation, because she knows inconvenience sometimes has to be endured for a greater good. OTOH you are attempting to do what is right and are distancing yourself from your own guilt (of not following an absolute stance), because you see that sometimes in life compromise is necessary.an ISFP friend opposes the use of plastic disposable cutlery. She will NEVER use it. I on the other hand, although I oppose disposable cutlery in general, will use it on occasion when it is the most expedient and sensible option. So I see her as basically living out some aspects of her Fi values very seriously, when I at times will take into account more options in the moment and optimize. Her resolve sometimes makes me look at my own, which is kind of neat. And I think that works both ways, in that sometimes you do need to adapt to the many variables, and she sees value in that from my end.
I'd rather not get into specifics but you hit the nail on the head with that bolded sentence. When you're "out", you cease to exist for the IXFP. The judgment has been made. It can be a bit shocking because others don't realize that side is there.
Yes, great observation. There is that need to remain emotionally distanced, because you must remain relatively objective and able to make the tough decisions.
But @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=8936" target="_blank">highlander</a> I wouldn't be so freaked out by that, because, we still experience the feelings of pity or concern for others. We still internalise the emotive aspect, and acknowledge it, but we have to mentally separate the crucial data from the 'irrelevant details'. If we didn't do this we'd never be able to make decisions. We'd be stuck in the state of feeling sorry for everyone, or being worried about all the possible negative outcomes on individuals, or that people won't like us, or just endlessly regretting the fact that we ended up in this difficult situation in the first place - and all this would just completely paralyse us. IxFPs are naturally inclined to search desperately for win-win situations, but the real world doesn't work like that. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, accept that some negative outcomes are inevitable, and that in many cases, not everyone can win. Learning this is essential for gaining maturity in a IxFP - it's about finding a way to reconcile our natural idealism with realism.
I think you also need to realise that this is done on the foundation of strong principles. It is not the abandonment of empathy and decency, it is about surrendering to a 'greater good' (as much as I dislike the implications that phrase has) and more pressing form of decency. It is not based on shifting, unstable ground, where we just capriciously harden our hearts whenever it suits us. Hell, we may be shutting down our own feelings and preferences just as much.
Just in my experience of being me, nobody is automatically out to begin with, and it's not even that easy to get out. The only catch is that the "out" button might be somewhere you don't expect. Fortunately, it gets more forgiving with maturity.
Yes, this is emotional protection also. As Jung notes - Fi is like a sensitive plant shrinking back from the object.
But I'm also referring to resisting the affect of external valuations, often communicated with emotional affect; it's to keep from being swayed from popular ideas that may not represent what is truly significant to the human experience. For feeling to grow in depth, to create & refine an inner guage of value concepts, you have to strip away the external contexts to funnel down into the fundamental concepts of what is important for humans - outside of culture, time, and very specific experiences.
When swayed, it is with Ne - what shows a connection to some ideal, even if it's just potential, so that you se such a myriad of ways for a value-concept to manifest the flexibility is kept intact. This is where the INFP NOT "door-slamming" in any permanent way is more common than not. It is very hard to kill all potential. it really takes a lot to drain something once full of it. The kind of depression that can plunge you into is rough. So sometimes you have to just let go of potential before you reach that point. It's more of an emotional protection again. And I think this paragraph reiterates what you said - basically, there is not always the win-win or the potential.
Ahh, using photos of an ISTP really enforces my idea that you're actually ISTP.
IxFPs are more the power behind the throne types I would think. Why do the dirty work when you can get others to do it for you?
I could see that in these terms. If Fi's gift is to really, deeply, genuinely know the interior of something... then its potential is to be able to know how best to destroy that.
(This is the original source for all theories on cognitive functions, btw)
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
He talks a bit about the ways morality can and cannot be derived by the functions, and in what manners they will manifest themselves and such.
To be fair, the Te profile is just as scary, in places - but the Te parts are more like being afraid of your dad. The Fi parts are more like being afraid of what's under your bed.
Sorry, all thoughtless stupid evil is committed by NTPs.
Hmm...I've had some pretty diabolical ideas of how to wreak havok on society and create chaos. Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has tried them before. But I don't have a desire to act on those ideas, nor any homicidal inclinations that I'm aware of. But if I were to snap, it would probably be targeted killings of people who have enraged me rather than random, spontaneous attacks on innocent people; which makes the aforementioned ideas useless.
Ahh, using photos of an ISTP really enforces my idea that you're actually ISTP.