Is Satan a human or supernatural concept for you?

[INTP]

Satan represents symbolically the aspect of negative things in the world. Its something that people made up to explain bad things before they understood bit better how the world works.

[MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION] how can satan be the opposite of god, if god is in all? also, how can god the the opposite of satan if god created everything, including satan. if god created satan, which causes bad things, isnt god himself then the cause of bad things? since it couldnt be an accident, because god knows all things. personally i think the view of god being some aspect of good and opposite of satan is bullshit. i dont even think the word god is very appropriate today, i prefer the word universe and dont see it as good or bad, but neutral overall, even tho some people might experience it more negatively or positively.

 

[Riva]

Satan is a supernatural concept created by the faithful - believers of God - to make sense of all the unjust that takes place/has taken place.

Either that or a

Supernatural concept created by the God himself to use as a scapegoat for his lack of foresight or to scapegoat his intentional antisocial handiwork.

I'm going with the former but I like the way how the latter sounds.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Satan is a neccesity. It is the arguement that was needed to explain the unexplainable questions of unfairness, sorrow and pain in the presence of a loving and all-knowing diety called God. Without satan, no one would believe in God, and if no one would believe in God, the masses would not as easily be rallied together and slay others in the name thereof.

Just my thoughts.

 

[skylights]

Supernatural concept, the embodiment of "evil", or disobedience, selfishness, and destruction. I was raised Catholic and always felt kind of bad for Satan, because we were taught that he is the only being deserving of hatred. IMO, that attitude is a major failure to understand the nature of love.

There's an idea (I believe it's from the Jewish tradition) that Satan is kind of God's fall guy (no pun intended) in the sense that he serves God by tempting man, and thus plays the villian to higher purpose. Evil is revealed, rather than inspired in man by the Devil. This is a notion that's echoed in tarot where the Devil represents how man becomes enslaved by his own pleasures and excesses, thus creating his own hell.

If you think about it, all these elements are present in the story of The Fall. The original sin was man knowing a will apart from that of God's, namely his own, because he erred in his illusion of individuality. As all sin somehow derives from this fundamental error what becomes clearer and clearer is that Satan is in many ways equatable with the ego.

Yes, I was going to bring up the Tarot card too. It is a card depicting self-binding that prevents growth, and has been related to the Jungian Shadow. The most interesting thing about the card is that it's not a card of doom and gloom, but an alert to greater possibilities if we can overcome ourselves. For my own personal understanding, I see Satan less as a representation of "bad" and more as a representation of self-sabotage.

It must be noted that since Satan is essentially representative of fighting oneself, you do not want to defeat him, unless you're keen on destroying yourself in the process. Love, on the other hand, heals.

 

[Coriolis]

Satan is a neccesity. It is the arguement that was needed to explain the unexplainable questions of unfairness, sorrow and pain in the presence of a loving and all-knowing diety called God. Without satan, no one would believe in God, and if no one would believe in God, the masses would not as easily be rallied together and slay others in the name thereof.

Just as "the ether" was used to explain gravity, until we were able to understand how it really works.

 

[Mole]

For the history of the Devil, just click on -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mYFJ4irxM&feature=g-vrec

 

[Lark]

I think that both God and the Devil were "humanised" during the rennaisance and afterwards, I think that was to do with art and the wish to depict each of them and anthropomorphism.

Although when I think about it both God and the Devil shouldnt be conceived of in that fashion, if they exist at all its in some ineffable fashion which would be more deserving of a label like supernatural.

 

[Little_Sticks]

You also need to apply human morality to reach our definition of evil. Animals without capacity for moral choice are not evil, for example. If a bear eats you, it's not because the bear wanted to murder and expunge you, it is because the bear was hungry or you are encroaching on its territory, and it is reacting out of survival instincts. Interestingly, we expect people to behave differently, even if they think they are operating out of survival; love is the capacity to treat another as if they were yourself, rather than viewing them as "Other" and thus an enemy or parasite. In general, evil seems to be like a black hole, force that has imploded upon itself so that its world is only as big as itself and no other entities are caught inside the event horizon to be viewed as kin. Everything is a threat or food; everything is an enemy or prey; there is only the self, and the self cut off from community soon becomes lost on its own private wasteland.

Although animals are thought to have less awareness and a lesser capacity for thought, it does not mean the choices they make are automatically in no way moral choices. Animals have been known to sacrifice themselves for people and other animals. As a person who is really good at gaining the trust of animals, I am very offended by your lack of respect for their intelligence.
And it's silly how people think animals are beneath human beings when we argue and bicker over what we "expect" of other people, rather than what our instincts "need" of other people. Animals sound more "reasonable" to me. And because of this, I don't give a shit what you or anyone expects of "me" or other people and it doesn't make me evil, no matter how hard you preach it.

And people group up all the time against other groups. They are both capable of loving and hating. And I think your explanation of evil sucks because it assumes people who are concerned with their survival are evil. Some people get betrayed and that doesn't make them evil for having to look out for themselves and it doesn't make them evil for being weary about "loving" other people; love is earned and for those badly hurt, they "require" more patience because they instinctively "need it"; what they don't need is a stupid social expectation that is going to hurt them and then label them as "evil" because they aren't ready to handle certain "expectations".

Pffff. Whatever, Jennifer. Now you can go ahead and give a trademark snide comment.

 

[Totenkindly]

If you're going to be purposefully antagonistic, why should i bother to engage? It gets old.

Besides the blatant misrepresentation of my position (I wasn't arguing that animals were "beneath" us) and the resulting needless slander of my character, I honestly doubt you were trying to argue for the execution and/or incarceration of animals when they perform acts that people would consider "evil" but that's exactly one of the direct outcomes of your logic here. No one is faulting your love for animals, and this thread isn't even necessarily about animals except to explore why humans need to label things as evil.

There's a difference between instinctive behavior and purposefully attacking another out of malice. Your post is one of the latter; a lion or shark stalking and killing prey is the former.

 

[miss fortune]

a dualistic concept to balance out a belief in an ultimate good... the concept of something that can act as the stick opposing the carrot of the boundless love of it's opposite... something to cause fear if you do something against the social mores and that could harm your society- much like religion's historical function of being a very effective way to get people to follow the laws and customs

so neither human or supernatural, merely conceptual

of course without humans would you even have "good" or "evil"? nobody considers a lion evil for eating somebody... that's just what lions do... evil can only be human, generally speaking... would that mean that the devil could only be human and by that token god?

 

[sprinkles]

a dualistic concept to balance out a belief in an ultimate good... the concept of something that can act as the stick opposing the carrot of the boundless love of it's opposite... something to cause fear if you do something against the social mores and that could harm your society- much like religion's historical function of being a very effective way to get people to follow the laws and customs

so neither human or supernatural, merely conceptual

of course without humans would you even have "good" or "evil"? nobody considers a lion evil for eating somebody... that's just what lions do... evil can only be human, generally speaking... would that mean that the devil could only be human and by that token god?

Even if one considered the lion to be evil, the lion wouldn't care. That's what separates us. Morality requires conscience and realization. A reason or motivation to do or not do things aside from the merit of the actions themselves.

As you said, that's just what lions do. Animals act according to their nature.

They can be bonding and compassionate, but they don't do that just because it's "good". They do it from their natural motivation.
They can also rip your face off, but they don't do that because they are "evil", they do that from their natural motivation as well.

There's nothing in nature that doesn't work properly.

 

[Antimony]

Does the person of Satan conceptualised as more humanistic or more supernaturalistic in your thinking? In different times in history Satan has been conceived as one or the other and sometimes a blending of both, which impresses you as more correct?

I think you can still answer this if you are a naturalist or non-theist, there is still an archetypical, symbolic legacy or heritage in which Satan features.

I think that you can take this a few different ways. From a classic, Christianity point of view he is more supernatural, even if he resides in a human body. He is more a conscious entity.

Then there is the idea that he is "evil". Not necessarily conscious, just whatever people consider evil.

Then there is he doesn't exist, and there are just varying shades of grey when you think of evil. I'd hazard that a lot of people who believe in Satan believe the last two more (at least, that is what I have encountered with people).