[INTP] INTP 2 INTP (possibly of use to others)

[Seanan]

I am truly sorry to have made you uncomfortable.
I did qualify my rant. I know it's how INTPs make me feel.
Xander understands me.

Your question made me uncomfortable... which I have learned is typical of my interaction with INTPs. As a matter of fact, 100% of the time when someone has asked me a question that made me feel uncomfortable, 100% of the time, it was an INTP!

Your question made me uncomfortable because it was a question probing the depths of my feelings. In my experience, INTPs will frankly approach and ask me the most personally invasive questions without seeming to realize that they don't have the right to know, or at least to ask, without permission. Almost like someone with one of those syndromes that causes them to say things that are socially inappropriate.

Maybe some INTPs are not self aware enough to realize that they have every intention of getting inside my head and figuring out why I feel a certain way, without obtaining my permission first. So they ask a question - like you did. I give a concise answer, as I usually do, but they didn't want concise! They want complete! ( know this now.) So they come back at me for more. And then more! Soon I am feeling badgered and like my privacy is being invaded.

As I say, if you want to entirely understand the fullness of someone's feelings, especially and INTJs, you must first reveal your motive.
I certainly do not care to have someone probing about the sanctity of my thought-life without knowing why.

My apologies. I'm pretty sure I must be one of those because I actually don't understand what you're saying. I follow a bit but not all... and that's sincerely said.. not just some sort of game. I don't know how one asks permission to ask. I thought asking was, in fact, asking permission... no matter..... but you see my confusion.

As for asking questions you deem inappropriate? How does one know? Within reason of course IE: asking what sexual position you like when that's not already a topic of conversation. I think most people gauge other people's reactions based on what their own would be. If you've noticed any of my own posts here, I'm a pretty open person... and freely share especially when I think it might help someone. I really can't think of much that would offend me if asked... not anything seriously asked that is. Now, if I thought someone was asking flippantly to play with or embarrass me, I would simply call them on it or ignore them and consider the source/true intentions.

I don't remember asking you anything but will, surely, try not to jump your boundaries.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I do, in a way, understand what you're saying... but, I have experienced similar with "Fs." I mentioned on another thread that I have two "F" email buddies and they write asking something personal... what I think or feel on it... I answer and they never reply back. Talk about being used! But for what has always been my question there. Am I something to get their curiosity fulfilled with? What are they doing with the information they asked for? Do they have any thoughts about what I said? Its really curious mode of behavior to me.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I'm not an INTP but I certainly have a piece of advice, since I find INTP's the most annoying, infuriating and exasperating of all the types. (Not that they actually ARE that way... only that they rub ME the wrong way... usually.)

Anyway... you know how you love to get inside people's heads, so you can figure out how they think - or whatever it is that you're doing in there?

GET PERMISSION FIRST!
AND DON'T OVERSTAY YOUR WELCOME!

I'm not saying this about you. I'm sure you're a very nice person, but INTJ's can be equally annoying with the "I'm flexible so long as you understand I'm right, you're wrong" mentality.

 

[INTJMom]

My apologies. I'm pretty sure I must be one of those because I actually don't understand what you're saying. I follow a bit but not all... and that's sincerely said.. not just some sort of game. I don't know how one asks permission to ask. I thought asking was, in fact, asking permission... no matter..... but you see my confusion.

As for asking questions you deem inappropriate? How does one know? Within reason of course IE: asking what sexual position you like when that's not already a topic of conversation. I think most people gauge other people's reactions based on what their own would be. If you've noticed any of my own posts here, I'm a pretty open person... and freely share especially when I think it might help someone. I really can't think of much that would offend me if asked... not anything seriously asked that is. Now, if I thought someone was asking flippantly to play with or embarrass me, I would simply call them on it or ignore them and consider the source/true intentions.

I don't remember asking you anything but will, surely, try not to jump your boundaries.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I do, in a way, understand what you're saying... but, I have experienced similar with "Fs." I mentioned on another thread that I have two "F" email buddies and they write asking something personal... what I think or feel on it... I answer and they never reply back. Talk about being used! But for what has always been my question there. Am I something to get their curiosity fulfilled with? What are they doing with the information they asked for? Do they have any thoughts about what I said? Its really curious mode of behavior to me.

I think if a person is an INTP they should automatically plan to go through the rest of their life prefacing their interrogation of INTJs with something like this:
I kinda like to understand what makes people tick.
Do you mind if I ask you some questions?

Then the INTJ understands the motive behind the question and can answer them in the appropriate way.


I don't know if these invasions bother anyone else the way they do INTJs.
I despise being somebody's science experiment.

But now that I know what they're doing and why, I get it, so I don't need the preface.
But I highly recommend it for someone who doesn't know them.

 

[INTJMom]

I'm not saying this about you. I'm sure you're a very nice person, but INTJ's can be equally annoying with the "I'm flexible so long as you understand I'm right, you're wrong" mentality.

LOL! We are kind of amusing that way, aren't we?

 

[cafe]

Is it possible to deflect questions with humor in some way? Or even a "Why do you ask?" No one is obligated to answer anyone else's questions. If the person asking the question is doing it out of benign curiosity, it seems premature to take it as an forcible invasive procedure.

 

[Jae Rae]

What's going on in his head is really much more interesting to him that what is going on in anyone else's.

Maybe if psychology is a hobby it could be a problem, though. But wouldn't most INTPs still rather research it by reading articles and studies than to deal with live subjects? That's just my impression. I don't know.

I agree completely with this. My INTP husband would be the last to ask a personal question about what someone's thinking or feeling. He likes to get inside the head of baseball players, but he only reads about them.

My ENTP friend is bold and brassy, and much more likely to ask questions that are personal and/or put others on the spot.

Jae Rae

 

[Martoon]

I know this is a little broad in nature but let's face it, us INTPs are special (the best ). We deserve to have the best guides and wisdom at our disposal

First up (just to get the ball rolling, not necessarily the best piece of advice).
Stabbing the sore bit.
Sometimes when approached with a problem or upon analysing a fault, it is better to dress the answer in diplomacy.

So what you're saying, then, is that I shouldn't do this:

Don't you mean we INTPs are special? (And you call yourself an NT. )

So I shouldn't do that, right?

I'm not an INTP but I certainly have a piece of advice, since I find INTP's the most annoying, infuriating and exasperating of all the types. (Not that they actually ARE that way... only that they rub ME the wrong way... usually.)

Anyway... you know how you love to get inside people's heads, so you can figure out how they think - or whatever it is that you're doing in there?

GET PERMISSION FIRST!
AND DON'T OVERSTAY YOUR WELCOME!

I hope you don't mind if we leave early, though.

LOL!

Wow. You must have run into some INTPs that were night and day from my husband. Seriously, good luck getting him to give a flying flip about what's going on in anybody's head. He has hobbies, after all.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

What's going on in his head is really much more interesting to him that what is going on in anyone else's.

Again, thinking the same thing. Why would someone presume that the inside of their head is more interesting than the inside of mine? Don and I are looking to be very similar.

Hmmm. My husband is more into gov/econ. He does watch our retirement account like a hen tending her chicks.

Okay, now we're looking decidedly dissimilar. Government? Bleah. Economics? Likewise. If you threw politics in there, I'd conclude we're from different planets.

And retirement account? Hmmm, I'm 40. I suppose I should think about getting one of those.

In my experience, INTPs will frankly approach and ask me the most personally invasive questions without seeming to realize that they don't have the right to know, or at least to ask, without permission. Almost like someone with one of those syndromes that causes them to say things that are socially inappropriate.

What I'm about to do here is a meta-answer; I'll demonstrate what I'm discussing via the method in which I discuss it.

In one sense, you completely lost me with what you said. But in another sense, I think I might have an idea of what it is you're seeing.

First of all, privacy is a very important value to me. I hate having people watch me, or wanting to know what I'm thinking, etc. And I respect it in other people. I'm very uncomfortable asking people about very personal things. Even it's a situation where that's something I should do, it's difficult for me.

But if someone makes some kind of assertion, or offers an opinion, and it's relevant or interesting to me, I don't just see it as a "vote". I want to learn from it and use it to test and edify my own opinions and processes. I like to iron out the inconsistencies and move things in the direction of The Truth. So I like to know why you think what you do, and attempt to bring clarity to both of us. Here's what I think, and how I came to that, here's what you think, and how you came to that. Let's compare notes, and see if we can both improve our understanding.

So above, where I said I think I might have an idea of what it is you're seeing, yeah, in a certain way I was "getting inside your head". But only because you've made a specific observation (INTPs you know are prone to asking you very invasive questions), and that's inconsistent with what I know of INTPs. So rather than concluding that one of us is right and the other wrong, I'd like to compare how we've come to our respective conclusions, and resolve the inconsistencies (INTPs hate inconsistencies ).

I'm not saying this about you. I'm sure you're a very nice person, but INTJ's can be equally annoying with the "I'm flexible so long as you understand I'm right, you're wrong" mentality.

 

[Seanan]

I wonder if someone can help me with this. I don't mean to derail (although it has already been I think with th INTP bash) but I don't know where I would even put a thread for this question.

In reading INTJMom's take on INTPs, I could be wrong but it seems to be a subjective and emotional viewpoint... please correct me if I err... and I thought the only difference between "J" and "P" was comfort with closure or not. I've been trying to approach this "invasive" thing objectively but it seems impossible and, thus, appears emotional based on personal values? So do INTJs present as more "F" than INTPs? Thanks.

 

[INTJMom]

...
So above, where I said I think I might have an idea of what it is you're seeing, yeah, in a certain way I was "getting inside your head". But only because you've made a specific observation (INTPs you know are prone to asking you very invasive questions), and that's inconsistent with what I know of INTPs. So rather than concluding that one of us is right and the other wrong, I'd like to compare how we've come to our respective conclusions, and resolve the inconsistencies (INTPs hate inconsistencies )...

I think the deal is that it's because I'm an INTJ that the questions affect me the way they do, as I stated at the beginning.

I don't believe INTPs have that effect on all types, but they have that effect on me. I guess I'm assuming they affect other INTJs that way also.

According to others in this thread, there are some INTPs who have no interest "getting inside" other people's heads. Frankly, I am relieved to hear it!

The fact is that whenever I have been asked invasive questions, when the person's type has been known, that person has been an INTP.




Thank you for correcting Xander's horrendous grammar.

 

[Tallulah]

INTJMom, your experience with INTPs sort of surprises me. Anytime I've been asked questions I felt were invasive, they were not from INTPs. They were from NFs. I have a good friend that's an ENFJ, for instance, that was always asking questions, even personal ones, and before I knew her, I resented her trying to force the connection. Another friend, an INFJ, respects my privacy, but she will occasionally ask me personal questions that I haven't volunteered any opinions on.

INTPs don't generally care about your feelings or your personal values as much as they care about your thoughts. Thoughts can be bandied about, poked, prodded, and it's still nothing personal to us. Just something to think about and try to get at the truth. I think INTJs are more value-based than INTPs, so they can get offended that we can pick ideas and viewpoints apart. Your conclusions might mean more to you then ours mean to us. Ours are always subject to revision with the addition of new information.

I think you're assuming some negative motivations on the part of INTPs that aren't there. I will say that you shouldn't get into a serious discussion with an INTP unless you're prepared to provide proof for your POV. Objectivity is key.

 

[INTJMom]

I wonder if someone can help me with this. I don't mean to derail (although it has already been I think with th INTP bash) but I don't know where I would even put a thread for this question.

In reading INTJMom's take on INTPs, I could be wrong but it seems to be a subjective and emotional viewpoint... please correct me if I err... and I thought the only difference between "J" and "P" was comfort with closure or not. I've been trying to approach this "invasive" thing objectively but it seems impossible and, thus, appears emotional based on personal values? So do INTJs present as more "F" than INTPs? Thanks.

For me it has more to do with being someone's scientific experiment... asking questions without revealing their purpose.

My thoughts and feelings are sacred to me. I don't mind sharing them, but I don't want them twisted around to mean something they don't mean.

 

[INTJMom]

INTJMom, your experience with INTPs sort of surprises me. Anytime I've been asked questions I felt were invasive, they were not from INTPs. They were from NFs. I have a good friend that's an ENFJ, for instance, that was always asking questions, even personal ones, and before I knew her, I resented her trying to force the connection. Another friend, an INFJ, respects my privacy, but she will occasionally ask me personal questions that I haven't volunteered any opinions on.

INTPs don't generally care about your feelings or your personal values as much as they care about your thoughts. Thoughts can be bandied about, poked, prodded, and it's still nothing personal to us. Just something to think about and try to get at the truth. I think INTJs are more value-based than INTPs, so they can get offended that we can pick ideas and viewpoints apart. Your conclusions might mean more to you then ours mean to us. Ours are always subject to revision with the addition of new information.

I think you're assuming some negative motivations on the part of INTPs that aren't there. I will say that you shouldn't get into a serious discussion with an INTP unless you're prepared to provide proof for your POV. Objectivity is key.

I think I've explained where I'm coming from in my previous post.

NFs affect you similarly to the way INTPs affect me.

 

[Tallulah]

For me it has more to do with being someone's scientific experiment... asking questions without revealing their purpose.

My thoughts and feelings are sacred to me. I don't mind sharing them, but I don't want them twisted around to mean something they don't mean.

I agree with that. I just ask people straight up, "Why do you want to know?"

 

[bluebell]

I need advice from other INTPs on making big or important decisions. I still don't have a new floor after 3 years of researching and I really, really, want one. I have allergies and this carpet just has to go.

Um, hopefully someone else will be able to answer this. I'm in a similar boat but with a fallen-down fence, a roof that needs repairing, and a revolting colour scheme in my lounge room that needs to be painted over. My procrastination has only been for a year so far though.

What's going on in his head is really much more interesting to him that what is going on in anyone else's.

Maybe if psychology is a hobby it could be a problem, though. But wouldn't most INTPs still rather research it by reading articles and studies than to deal with live subjects? That's just my impression. I don't know.

Psychology is one of my current obsessions and I read a bit about it. But I tend to compulsively observe and try to work out what makes people tick. I never ever ask intrusive questions though - I just observe and think about it.

Your question made me uncomfortable... which I have learned is typical of my interaction with INTPs. As a matter of fact, 100% of the time when someone has asked me a question that made me feel uncomfortable, 100% of the time, it was an INTP!

Your question made me uncomfortable because it was a question probing the depths of my feelings. In my experience, INTPs will frankly approach and ask me the most personally invasive questions without seeming to realize that they don't have the right to know, or at least to ask, without permission. Almost like someone with one of those syndromes that causes them to say things that are socially inappropriate.

Like Tallulah said, your experience with INTPs surprises me. I've only ever had that experience with Fs (just a few weird ones in particular - most people don't do this). My guess is that they've been mis-typed. Tests and self-typing aren't infallible.

 

[INTJMom]

I agree with that. I just ask people straight up, "Why do you want to know?"

I'm gonna remember that from now on.

 

[INTJMom]

...
Like Tallulah said, your experience with INTPs surprises me. I've only ever had that experience with Fs (just a few weird ones in particular - most people don't do this). My guess is that they've been mis-typed. Tests and self-typing aren't infallible.

Maybe you haven't noticed because it doesn't bother you. It bothers me, so I notice.

The majority of INTPs I am referring to have been here on this site, and they are not ones I consider to be people who don't know themselves or don't understand MBTT.

And DON'T EVEN anybody ask me who they were because 1- for the most part, I don't remember, and 2- I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone.

I don't have a grudge against any of these people, it's just a reality that I have learned comes with the territory - for me - of dealing with INTPs.

I'm gonna go tone down that font now.
It's just a little loud.

 

[bluebell]

Maybe you haven't noticed because it doesn't bother you. It bothers me, so I notice.

The majority of INTPs I am referring to have been here on this site, and they are not ones I consider to be people who don't know themselves or don't understand MBTT.

Heh. My mistake - I assumed they were people you knew IRL, not online. There's no obligation for anyone to answer any question, online or IRL, but online it's so much easier to brush off questions than IRL.

And on a site like this, trying to understand how others think/feel/operate is quite common. *shrug*

 

[rainfall]

As I say, if you want to entirely understand the fullness of someone's feelings, especially an INTJs, you must first reveal your motive.

Bah, motive. I mean, anyone knows that playing with someone's mind is a great amount of fun. Just all those secrets and feelings of inferiority so desperately hidden under armor of toughness... All those feelings, vulnerability... What other motive could there be? It's just fun to poke in there. Plus, I love that freakish face people make once they know I can see right through them, through all the ways they lie and pretend, and see what's really inside.

I certainly do not care to have someone probing about the sanctity of my thought-life without knowing why.

Vot an interesting tezt subjekt! I muzt kontinue obzervation!

 

[mippus]

Maybe I should clarify why I asked the "what is this anger?" question. It was not out of some detatched, scientifice interest, and -no offence, INTJmom- not even out of compassion. I felt the previous post was an attack and I was startled by it, especially since I didn't see it coming. I wanted to understand what I/we did wrong...

Please ignore this post if it has become irrelevant to you...

 

[mippus]

Bah, motive. I mean, anyone knows that playing with someone's mind is a great amount of fun. Just all those secrets and feelings of inferiority so desperately hidden under armor of toughness... All those feelings, vulnerability... What other motive could there be? It's just fun to poke in there. Plus, I love that freakish face people make once they know I can see right through them, through all the ways they lie and pretend, and see what's really inside.

Can I add that I don't see this as a typical INTP-thing? Maybe as a caricature-of-INTP-thing, but most of us do have empathic and social skills...