INFP or ISFP

[highlander]

The major problem, as even [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] pointed before in another thread, is that Carl Jung (where MBTI and cognitive functions comes from) have sometimes a relatively confusing writing. Jung made clear that the pair of a judging function (J functions on Jung are Fi,Fe,Te and Ti) pairs with a perceiving function (P functions on Jung are Ne,Ni,Se,Si). However, he never made clear if the auxiliary function of an Introvert function is another introvert function or an extrovert one. Some people does the case through they are opposites, which is the popular vision on community, and some others gets the alternative one. I am fond of the widest one: It can be both, which is the literal interpretation. That means that a pair for Si can be either Fe,Fi,Te or Ti. So, ISFJ can be either Si-Fi or Si-Fe. Its not that I reject Si-Fe for ISFJ, but rather that I do read Si-Fi as ISFJ as well.

I had a look and pretty much ISFP for me. A ISFP that looks like a ISTP in the eye of others (low Fe means low emotion and perhaps feeling expression, which makes you appear as a Thinker to others).
Conscientiousness is related to Judging, you got low or mid scores. Even in some facets that were out of Conscientiousness but does somewhat relate perceiving, although in one or two you seemed like a J (that is ok, it is not that unusual to have a reverse preference or being a P with one or two J traits).
Openness to Experience is related to intuition, and you score on the sensor zone in general, although not on imagination.
The score for Introvert is clear.
The Feeling vs Thinking is more or less unclear because Big Five doesnt help much (Agreeableness is only weakly connected to feeling), but if you lead with Fi over Ti (since ISXP is clear), which makes you ISFP. Fi-Si ISFP instead of a Fi-Se one, but others might see you as ISTP because Fe is low and emotion/feeling expression is low as well.

The back of the functions are not that much reliable, specially here if we were to mirror Se-Fe that would make you Ti-Ni that is pretty much INTP. INTP goes completely against the Big Five results, which is unsurprising because typing using the cognitive functions on the back doesnt usually works well (the inferior function might be useful sometimes for deciding one or another dichotomy, though).

However, you seem highly neurotic. The image were cut, but neuroticism is imminently higher than 70. This makes you go to what the community calls "shadow mode", and that makes pretty much J/P and T/F to doubt. There is not much you can do about it unless find a way to reduce neuroticism and that comes at a very hard, or, sometimes, it is environment related. So, for the moment, you are more like a Fi-Si ISFP, Fi-dom, Si-aux, but on long-term, you might be more like on a ISFP Fi-Si mode due to neuroticism rather than actually being Fi-Si ISFP (so, no auxiliary Se). The high Fi, high Si, low Se, low Fe unusual pattern might be caused by high Neuroticism. Ah, it is useful for you to monitor your results over time. Because I had hypothesized that Fi-Si might be a ISFP/INFP in transition to ISTJ, but that transition is supposed to be so slow that it should take years.

Enneagram is another story, but using the Big Five results, type 6 is the best match, 4 is ok but not that good match (due to Openness to Experience). Disregarding Neuroticism/Emotional Stability, type 9 is a good match.

This is a fascinating analysis. I'd very much like to learn more about the correlations you mention.

 

[KylinZhang]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] That's my result. I had taken it before I took the Big 5 test. I assumed that mbti type doesnt change my mbti type doesnot change. Anyway, I am not feel sympathy or empathy because of two main reason. I think my life is not good, why I need to care other people/ they dont care my emotion, why I need to care theirs. Empathy/Sympathy with someone who is miserable make me sad and depressed even if I have never sufferred from something they experience. If openess to experience relates to intuition, I dont have any reason to deny. I dont like adventure, sport and art (I always think ISFP often enjoy their life, especially something like sport, art, travelling . . .). About culture or philosophical concept, it depends on how much I am interested in them, but most of time I think I use Si, excel information than use Ne. I just use Ne only when I want to answer questions which people can confirm that's true of false.

 

[highlander]

@Vendrah That's my test's result. Btw, why ISFJ does not come with Si Fe? [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] I don't like myself INFP but I don't want to be ISFP cuz of too low Se, that's so bad.

BTW, that looks like an interesting test. Can you provide a link to it?

 

[Pionart]

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] I don't know dichotomies vs functions, I am so sorry. Is my Si too high for an ISFP? I do this test twice, I forgot the result of Te/Ti/Ne/Ni but in two tests, Se and Fe are always ranked 7th and 8th; Fi Si are always domt. One said I am ISTJ, one said I am ISFP. But I think I am still an INFP. [MENTION=22833]Legion[/MENTION] I think too. I wrote what I had in brain at that moment=))). No any logic or coherence. Maybe that's one of the reason why I rarely has high mark in my literature lesson

ISFP can have high Si, but they generally have high Se as well. I could only see INFP and ISTJ fitting the test results but i can see you are INFP. I suppose you are Si subtype.

 

[Vendrah]

This is a fascinating analysis. I'd very much like to learn more about the correlations you mention.

Thanks.
I like to use Enneagram- Big Five - MBTI interchangeably and together. Instead of taking these judgments of "this one is the best and the other is astrology", "No, I hate this one" or etc..
We are on the online community, we might have a lot of misinfo but we dont need to choose. Its different from a company or even individuals where paying for everyone of them, on detailed, costs a lot and sometimes is unfeasible to take serious multiple tests.

Merging MBTI and Big Five gives a division of 6 dichotomies-group: E/I & Extraversion, N/S & Openness to Experience, F/T, J/P & Conscientiousness, Agreeableness and Neuroticism. I take Agreeableness as not feeling because the correlation is too weak and I had seen feelers with low Agreeableness (crossing forum results), although I have not seen Thinkers with high agreeableness yet.

For MBTI and Big Five, firstly, there is the wikipedia table (correlations from 0 to 1):

The connections arent a 100%... Also notice that Openness has a small component on perceiving.
I got deeper into that department on my own TC member blog, and I had crossed test results from Big Five threads with the Dario Nardi thread, and with that I had found the correlations with from cognitive functions & Big Five from facets to facets and 'dichotomy' based on functions (like Ne+Ni>Se+Si):
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...ies-stats-studies-possibly-4.html#post3226085

Some few facets change on the map I had listed.. Such as Cautiousness passing from Conscientiousness to Introversion. That is based on the correlations I had found.

About the enneagram, that table I had shown earlier comes from an article called "But Is It Real? A Review of Research on Enneagram". The other table I like to use is yours and there is this one from a website that has gone down, it is independent from here but the results are pretty similar:

And finally I had listed the impossible, most common, etc.. of enneagram and MBTI types, also predicting some dichotomies borderlines, based on these relations, here.

Although I only explained the data part, there is some strong conceptual stuff related to these, specially on the facet department. Showing data is way quicker, though.

 

[Vendrah]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] That's my result. I had taken it before I took the Big 5 test. I assumed that mbti type doesnt change my mbti type doesnot change. Anyway, I am not feel sympathy or empathy because of two main reason. I think my life is not good, why I need to care other people/ they dont care my emotion, why I need to care theirs. Empathy/Sympathy with someone who is miserable make me sad and depressed even if I have never sufferred from something they experience. If openess to experience relates to intuition, I dont have any reason to deny. I dont like adventure, sport and art (I always think ISFP often enjoy their life, especially something like sport, art, travelling . . .). About culture or philosophical concept, it depends on how much I am interested in them, but most of time I think I use Si, excel information than use Ne. I just use Ne only when I want to answer questions which people can confirm that's true of false.

I had mentioned, although not that directly, that based on Big Five the best match is 6, and 4 and 9 are good matches. These are, although in a different order, your 3 top results. That is not a bad coincidence and also means that you seem to not self-reporting badly.

It is true that there is a problematic facet for every enneagram for you, so you wont fully belong to one enneagram type. But your everyone of your top enneagram results belong to a different enneagram triad - heart (4), head (6) and gut (9), so I have a suggestion for 4-6-9, in any order, for enneagram.

If MBTI type change or not that is a great question. Some believe it does, some wont, and I... I am more on the it wont side. Deeply, it wont. Superficially and in adaptive terms, it will.

I think my life is not good, why I need to care other people/ they dont care my emotion, why I need to care theirs. Empathy/Sympathy with someone who is miserable make me sad and depressed even if I have never sufferred from something they experience.

I get that you should have some bad story behind.
A lot of us on the forum does as well.
A lot of people are neurotic here too..

If openess to experience relates to intuition, I dont have any reason to deny. I dont like adventure, sport and art (I always think ISFP often enjoy their life, especially something like sport, art, travelling . . .).

Yeah, it does relate to intuition.
But the facets that mainly relates are Imagination, Artistic Interest, Intellect (with Ti interference). Artistic Interest is spread as if a SFP stuff when it is more related to Intuition instead. You are close to an intuitive type on imagination facet, but taking in consideration everything you are mostly a sensor. When you wide the view on dichotomies with facets, merging Big Five & MBTI facets and considering cognitive functions its quite hard to be fully intuitive or fully sensor, these are rare cases.
ISFP is the 'intuitive sensor', so that is not unusual for ISFP.

Adventure is more or less neutral, it relates to Se and a little bit to Ne, it relates more to type 7 on enneagram and Perceiving.
Liberalism basically is a P component.

 

[highlander]

Thanks.
I like to use Enneagram- Big Five - MBTI interchangeably and together. Instead of taking these judgments of "this one is the best and the other is astrology", "No, I hate this one" or etc..
We are on the online community, we might have a lot of misinfo but we dont need to choose. Its different from a company or even individuals where paying for everyone of them, on detailed, costs a lot and sometimes is unfeasible to take serious multiple tests.

Merging MBTI and Big Five gives a division of 6 dichotomies-group: E/I & Extraversion, N/S & Openness to Experience, F/T, J/P & Conscientiousness, Agreeableness and Neuroticism. I take Agreeableness as not feeling because the correlation is too weak and I had seen feelers with low Agreeableness (crossing forum results), although I have not seen Thinkers with high agreeableness yet.

For MBTI and Big Five, firstly, there is the wikipedia table (correlations from 0 to 1):

The connections arent a 100%... Also notice that Openness has a small component on perceiving.
I got deeper into that department on my own TC member blog, and I had crossed test results from Big Five threads with the Dario Nardi thread, and with that I had found the correlations with from cognitive functions & Big Five from facets to facets and 'dichotomy' based on functions (like Ne+Ni>Se+Si):
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...ies-stats-studies-possibly-4.html#post3226085

Some few facets change on the map I had listed.. Such as Cautiousness passing from Conscientiousness to Introversion. That is based on the correlations I had found.

About the enneagram, that table I had shown earlier comes from an article called "But Is It Real? A Review of Research on Enneagram". The other table I like to use is yours and there is this one from a website that has gone down, it is independent from here but the results are pretty similar:

And finally I had listed the impossible, most common, etc.. of enneagram and MBTI types, also predicting some dichotomies borderlines, based on these relations, here.

Although I only explained the data part, there is some strong conceptual stuff related to these, specially on the facet department. Showing data is way quicker, though.

I see. Interesting. I know the least about the big 5 but like your idea of correlating the different systems. I pulled together this analysis here about 5 years ago

 

[Vendrah]

I see. Interesting. I know the least about the big 5 but like your idea of correlating the different systems. I pulled together this analysis here about 5 years ago

I already read your analysis before and I am familiar to it. That is what I was referring to as 'your table'
I had shown another source that you might not know for comparison. The other source from the website that is gone has very similar patterns from what you have found.

 

[Pionart]

The problem with [MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] 's analysis is that it can tell you that ISFJ can have high Si and Fi, but it can't tell whether you are ISFJ, ISFP, INFP or ISTJ, because all of those types can get that score.
From looking at your functions manifest in an order, I can see that you are either INFP, or at least displaying INFP cognition in this thread.

 

[Vendrah]

The problem with [MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] 's analysis is that it can tell you that ISFJ can have high Si and Fi, but it can't tell whether you are ISFJ, ISFP, INFP or ISTJ, because all of those types can get that score.
From looking at your functions manifest in an order, I can see that you are either INFP, or at least displaying INFP cognition in this thread.

No, I can tell it isnt ISTJ or INFP, Fi-Si is ISFP and Si-Fi ISFJ (and that goes for the literal Jung interpretation), and Big Five show clear preference towards P over J.

However, the person in question - that is not actually the OP, who disappeared - has low scores of Fe and Se, which makes a quite different case.

 

[highlander]

The problem with [MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] 's analysis is that it can tell you that ISFJ can have high Si and Fi, but it can't tell whether you are ISFJ, ISFP, INFP or ISTJ, because all of those types can get that score.
From looking at your functions manifest in an order, I can see that you are either INFP, or at least displaying INFP cognition in this thread.

I actually disagree. There are a number of persuasive points for ISFP.
1. Under Extraversion in Big 5, Excitement Seeking score is very high. I would guess that could correlate with Se
2. Under Agreeableness, Altruism and Sympathy are very low. The mix of scores there seems to indicate Fi preference vs. Fe
3. Most revealingly, Openness score overall is pretty low for an Intuitive of any type

She indicates Enneagram 4.

From the Wiki Study:

Enneagram 4 - Enneagram 4 is strongly correlated with a preference for intuition as well as feeling. It is also more likely to be associated with introversion than extraversion. The types most likely to be Enneagram 4 are in order of likelihood, INFP (42% - 57% of INFPs are 4), INFJ (29% - 44% of INFJs are 4), ISFP (27% - 35% of ISFPs are 4) and ENFP (23% - 25% of ENFPs are 4). Between 56% and 65% of Enneagram 4s are made up of these three types. An additional 19 - 31% of Enneagram 4s are ISFJs and ESFPs because it is not an uncommon type for them and their overall prevalence in the population as a whole.

It would be pretty unlikely for an ISTJ to be an Enneagram 4 (3% probability according to my analysis in the Wiki)

So my conclusion is the two likely types are INFP or ISFP with more evidence leaning towards ISFP.

 

[KylinZhang]

I still follow this thread, I just dont know what to say. It seems like I am not good at both INFP and ISFP, feel like myself uncomplete at all

 

[Vendrah]

I actually disagree. There are a number of persuasive points for ISFP.
1. Under Extraversion in Big 5, Excitement Seeking score is very high. I would guess that could correlate with Se
2. Under Agreeableness, Altruism and Sympathy are very low. The mix of scores there seems to indicate Fi preference vs. Fe
3. Most revealingly, Openness score overall is pretty low for an Intuitive of any type

She indicates Enneagram 4.

From the Wiki Study:

Enneagram 4 - Enneagram 4 is strongly correlated with a preference for intuition as well as feeling. It is also more likely to be associated with introversion than extraversion. The types most likely to be Enneagram 4 are in order of likelihood, INFP (42% - 57% of INFPs are 4), INFJ (29% - 44% of INFJs are 4), ISFP (27% - 35% of ISFPs are 4) and ENFP (23% - 25% of ENFPs are 4). Between 56% and 65% of Enneagram 4s are made up of these three types. An additional 19 - 31% of Enneagram 4s are ISFJs and ESFPs because it is not an uncommon type for them and their overall prevalence in the population as a whole.

It would be pretty unlikely for an ISTJ to be an Enneagram 4 (3% probability according to my analysis in the Wiki)

So my conclusion is the two likely types are INFP or ISFP with more evidence leaning towards ISFP.

Thanks, I wasnt thinking that much clearly yesterday, which is rare (not because I was drunk or on drugs), but that is pretty much it. The cognitive function results were a little bit confusing, so I had jumped to Big Five instead (which goes towards ISXP, I put ISFP because Fi is the highest cognitive funciton).