If Christ was completely without sin...

[Oberon]

Well, they don't call it the "Incarnation" for nothing. He was God in the meat, which is by definition carnal.

 

[Mole]

So was he or wasn't he carnal?

And should he have been if he wasn't?

He is a figure of myth. He can be anything we want him to be. But what we want him to be reveals us to ourselves.

And we are revealed as misogynist.

 

[Lark]

Exactly. Sex outside of marriage wasn't as prevalent and accessible then as it is today. It happened, but not to the extent of today.

If you consider only adultery is mentioned in the ten commandments and only once, it kind of gives an impression of how balanced a view of sexuality there was. I dont see him as having had much of an opportunity to be a thief or anythng else either, he fufilled most of the commandments in a positive sense throughout his ministry.

 

[KDude]

You guys keep talking as if the idea of him being single is fact. You don't know that.

 

[Lark]

Got some references for that?

I read it in the adolescent diaries of Karen Horney.

Adolescent Diaries K Horney: Amazon.co.uk: Horney: Books

Sorry but I cant find it with a google book search, my anti-virus doesnt like what I find when I do that search, no doubt evidence I'm making the whole thing up but anyway...

 

[Mole]

...carry out the will of his Father (to die for mankind)...

Yes, the myth teaches that the Father was offended by us and in order to forgive us, he tortured His Son to death.

This is blood sacrifice to appease an angry God.

 

[Lark]

You guys keep talking as if the idea of him being single is fact. You don't know that.

Might or might not have been, James could have been his brother and James and a couple of other members of he 12 apostles could have been married. I dont see how this is controversial.

 

[miss fortune]

... isn't anger one of the deadly sins?

and didn't jesus pitch a fit and toss the moneylenders out of the temple?

I dunno, but it doesn't seem that Jesus was completely without sin

Unless you consider it being a clean slate whenever he prayed for forgiveness, but by that definition John Gotti died without sin

 

[Mole]

You guys keep talking as if the idea of him being single is fact. You don't know that.

You guys keep talking as though a myth were literally true.

 

[IZthe411]

You guys keep talking as if the idea of him being single is fact. You don't know that.

If he was, it would have been explicitly stated, don't you think? I mean, the point of the Bible is to show how God's purpose for mankind is to be fulfilled through Jesus.

Then there's the evidence that he was a single man, including him not having a permanent residence, and, as he lay on the torture stake dying, the woman he ensured care for was his mother- who was a widow at that point, and not a wife and kids.

 

[IZthe411]

Yes, the myth teaches that the Father was offended by us and in order to forgive us, he tortured His Son to death.

This is blood sacrifice to appease an angry God.

Not exactly.

His death balanced the scales of justice. Since a perfect man caused the situation, another perfect man needed to give his life make it perfect. Anything less would have perverted God's perfect justice.

 

[gromit]

It is fascinating that sin is equated with carnal desire.

And this is because the carnal desire is the desire for women.

And the misogynists believed women were inferior and dirty, not much more than animals and to be treated as chattels.

And Christ after all was above all that - he was not only man but God as well. He couldn't actually desire women, that would be beneath his dignity.

Christ is the perfect misogynist image - untainted by women.

Do you think homosexual men are misogynistic?

You guys keep talking as if the idea of him being single is fact. You don't know that.

This is a good point...

You guys keep talking as though a myth were literally true.

Also a good point. There are parts of the story, though, that are generally-accepted history by Christians and non-Christians alike.

 

[Oberon]

Not exactly.

His death balanced the scales of justice. Since a perfect man caused the situation, another perfect man needed to give his life make it perfect. Anything less would have perverted God's perfect justice.

Don't argue with Victor. It accomplishes nothing useful.

 

[Mole]

Not exactly.

His death balanced the scales of justice. Since a perfect man caused the situation, another perfect man needed to give his life make it perfect. Anything less would have perverted God's perfect justice.

It must be obvious that to talk of perfect men and perfect justice is to speak in terms of myth.

This is a very powerful myth that underlies our society. However it is also a misogynist myth based on child abuse.

God orders Abraham to gut and sacrifice his son, then God sacrifices his own Son. This is simply child abuse and its mythical justification.

 

[IZthe411]

It must be obvious that to talk of perfect men and perfect justice is to speak in terms of myth.

This is a very powerful myth that underlies our society. However it is also a misogynist myth based on child abuse.

God orders Abraham to gut and sacrifice his son, then God sacrifices his own Son. This is simply child abuse and its mythical justification.

Maybe Abraham/Isaac was symbolic of what God as a father would do to his son for the sake of all humankind?

 

[Lark]

Maybe Abraham/Isaac was symbolic of what God as a father would do to his son for the sake of all humankind?

This is a bit daft, it was just the son of God that died but God incarnate, you might aswell say that the passion of Christ endorses suicide.

 

[IZthe411]

This is a bit daft, it was just the son of God that died but God incarnate, you might aswell say that the passion of Christ endorses suicide.

Not sure what you are saying here?

 

[Lark]

... isn't anger one of the deadly sins?

and didn't jesus pitch a fit and toss the moneylenders out of the temple?

I dunno, but it doesn't seem that Jesus was completely without sin

Unless you consider it being a clean slate whenever he prayed for forgiveness, but by that definition John Gotti died without sin

Hmm, I reckon that the expelling of the moneylenders with a whipwas more than paid for by the scourging at the pillar, dont you think?

Its not anger BTW its wrath, although I'm not sure that tossing some tables and chasing people constitutes wrath really.

 

[Oberon]

... isn't anger one of the deadly sins?

and didn't jesus pitch a fit and toss the moneylenders out of the temple?

I dunno, but it doesn't seem that Jesus was completely without sin

You should probably take that up with him when you see him. :rolli:

 

[miss fortune]

Hmm, I reckon that the expelling of the moneylenders with a whipwas more than paid for by the scourging at the pillar, dont you think?

Its not anger BTW its wrath, although I'm not sure that tossing some tables and chasing people constitutes wrath really.

that was my point... anger, wrath, throwing an amazing temper tantrum... any of those probably aren't on the New Testament God's List of Holy Virtues (now the old testament one... that's a bit more questionable )

I just remember that because I heard an interesting sermon on Jesus understanding sin because he himself had even sinned, which was proof that repentant sinners could enter Heaven... that was one of the few times I actually paid attention when forced to go to church... it was a guest minister that sunday!