[NT] Hurt feelings and NT's

[SillySapienne]

That was extraordinarily bad timing, then.
The context was completely wrong for that sort of joke.
It was pretty clear he was being quite serious and in "analysis" mode, and your "joking" tone didn't deviate from your "serious" tone.
(I don't actually think you have a large degree between the two.)

So is that an Fi thing, or an Fe thing... or just bad timing... or what?

I don't argue with the po-lice.

Yes, ma'am, whatever you say.

 

[garbage]

This is what I mean about feeler overconfidence in diagnosing others' feelings !

It does make me wonder why NT's are seen as the arrogant type, because we all have a tendency to see the world through our strengths and shut out everything else. I guess it's because we as NT's will cling to the notion that we're objective and thoughtful and therefore correct. I think we all have the capacity to be arrogant about our strengths and shut out everything else.

Yesterday, my Fe-dom friend spouted off some interesting social cues that he picked up on, and he was very surprised that I didn't see them. Likewise, I used to be (and sometimes still am) bewildered at the fact that time management classes actually exist.. because time management is easy, right?

I dunno. I was an arrogant dick in my early college years and didn't think that I needed to change anything about myself or listen to anyone. I got over that when I realized it wasn't going to work for me.

The truth is that we should all listen to what others have to say, because it might be founded. A feeler might be right in their assessment of our emotions. Likewise, we might be right in telling them that their assessments are full of shit.


There. I've explained why a feeler might be obsessed over delving into others' emotions.

 

[SillySapienne]

It does make me wonder why NT's are seen as the arrogant type, because we all have a tendency to see the world through our strengths and shut out everything else. I guess it's because we as NT's will cling to the notion that we're objective and thoughtful and therefore correct. I think we all have the capacity to be arrogant about our strengths and shut out everything else.

Yesterday, my Fe-dom friend spouted off some interesting social cues that he picked up on, and he was very surprised that I didn't see them. Likewise, I used to be (and sometimes still am) bewildered at the fact that time management classes actually exist.. because time management is easy, right?

I dunno. I was an arrogant dick in my early college years and didn't think that I needed to change anything about myself or listen to anyone. I got over that when I realized it wasn't going to work for me.

The truth is that we should all listen to what others have to say, because it might be founded. A feeler might be right in their assessment of our emotions. Likewise, we might be right in telling them that their assessments are full of shit.


There. I've explained why a feeler might be obsessed over delving into others' emotions.

Awesome post!!!

Are you sure you are an ENTJ?



I kid, I kid.

 

[Stigmatic]

I dunno. I was an arrogant dick in my early college years and didn't think that I needed to change anything about myself or listen to anyone. I got over that when I realized it wasn't going to work for me.

I am not and have never been an arrogant dick. There are some things I think I am more of an expert on than others, but it is never about themselves.

The truth is that we should all listen to what others have to say, because it might be founded. A feeler might be right in their assessment of our emotions. Likewise, we might be right in telling them that their assessments are full of shit.

Yes, but what I see is that some feelers do not really want to listen to what you have to say unless it supports their pet hunches. If you say they are full of shit they do not accept it.

There. I've explained why a feeler might be obsessed over delving into others' emotions.

Thanks, and no offense to a self-styled arrogant NT, but I would like to hear a feeler on it, too.
It just occurred to me. You are an NT trying to explain something you are not! Just like I have said feeler's do. New twist!

 

[garbage]

Awesome post!!!

Are you sure you are an ENTJ?



I kid, I kid.

Haha, I'm willing to accept that my post could be completely wrong, too. But I somehow doubt that it's completely off-base.

(Funny you mention type.. I actually introduced myself to the forums as ESFJ doh and went to great lengths afterward to actually find my type. My very first assessment, about two years ago, pegged me as ENTJ, and I ended up coming back to that after reading up more on the functions and observing what came most naturally to me.)

I am not and have never been an arrogant dick. There are some things I think I am more of an expert on than others, but it is never about themselves.

I didn't mean to say that you were, if you read it that way. I've seen arrogance and stubbornness in all types; I was just throwing out the fact that I used to be that way myself.

Yes, but what I see is that some feelers do not really want to listen to what you have to say unless it supports their pet hunches. If you say they are full of shit they do not accept it.

I agree. Some do that, just as some of us are always convinced that we're right when it comes to our strengths, too. I know I've run across NT's that I couldn't even convince to listen to my counterpoints on some topic.

Thanks, and no offense to a self-styled arrogant NT, but I would like to hear a feeler on it, too.
It just occurred to me. You are an NT trying to explain something you are not! Just like I have said feeler's do. New twist.

Oh, yeah.. I'd love to hear their perspective on it, too. Or at least their perspective on my perspective.. seems at least CC agrees with it.

You're right, though. I am trying to explain something that I'm not, and I freely admitted that I could be wrong, too. I use phrases like "I think" and "I guess" to try to get that across. I don't pretend to understand feelers' thought processes. I could be trying for too holistic an approach, seeing a pattern (of every type playing to their strengths and being overconfident in them at times) that isn't there. I invite everyone to give their own approach to the same problem.

From my perspective, feelers have been right in assessing me, and they've been wrong in assessing me. I could've been wrong in judging them in being right and wrong at times, too.


.. it's all a big, confusing mess.

 

[Siegfried]

I have found your view to be well thought out. Each type has a capacity to rely too much on their strengths and ignore evaluating to improve weaknesses. There are times when the feeling function is better in a T, and vice versa, type is one thing, other factors come into play for a person and circumstance. If one constructively critques his or her self, that person is going to be far more balanced personality than others and will improve their own character further. Singling out any type to have a significant monopoly on flaws is not fair, its easy to criticise other types, since can see where the person has flaws where you have strengths, but it takes a mature outlook to see his or her self aswell and see where they are coming from, its all about being a healthy example of a human being. I think that be recognising things like this you've shown that you're a mature example of ENTJ.

 

[Stigmatic]

Haha, I'm willing to accept that my post could be completely wrong, too. But I somehow doubt that it's completely off-base.

I'm sorry. I did not mean to suggest they were.

I agree. Some do that, just as some of us are always convinced that we're right when it comes to our strengths, too. I know I've run across NT's that I couldn't even convince to listen to my counterpoints on some topic.

Very true. I suppose the reason it floors and annoys some NTs is that the strength is not just some objective fact out there, but claim to knowledge about the person him or herself that is often based on very little but a person's principles - innate or learned - of how people work. Where we have things like diagnosing strangers with childhood trauma for not feeling much, it comes off as a greater affront to me. Perhaps it is a personal-impersonal thing. I can imagine a feeler being rightly upset that a T would not consider the feeler's thoughts on a personal matter correct only because it is a matter of thought rather than feeling.

You're right, though. I am trying to explain something that I'm not, and I freely admitted that I could be wrong, too. I use phrases like "I think" and "I guess" to try to get that across. I don't pretend to understand feelers' thought processes. I could be trying for too holistic an approach, seeing a pattern (of every type playing to their strengths and being overconfident in them at times) that isn't there. I invite everyone to give their own approach to the same problem.

From my perspective, feelers have been right in assessing me, and they've been wrong in assessing me. I could've been wrong in judging them in being right and wrong at times, too.


.. it's all a big, confusing mess.

To be clear, it wasn't a criticism. It just struck me that I was saying feelers do it and there it was I had a T doing it.

 

[Night]

Very true. I suppose the reason it floors and annoys some NTs is that the strength is not just some objective fact out there, but claim to knowledge about the person him or herself that is often based on very little but a person's principles - innate or learned - of how people work. Where we have things like diagnosing strangers with childhood trauma for not feeling much, it comes off as a greater affront to me. Perhaps it is a personal-impersonal thing. I can imagine a feeler being rightly upset that a T would not consider the feeler's thoughts on a personal matter correct only because it is a matter of thought rather than feeling.

For my dime, this desire is more a description of intellectual defiance to being pigeonholed/indiscriminately categorized on the basis of subjective observation. Emotions are intimate to the user, as is the thought process that decides how/when to implement them...

As such, it stands to reason that an outside observer will lack the contextual meat necessary to make a detached determination as to why I express emotion the way I choose to.

 

[Tallulah]

For my dime, this desire is more a description of intellectual defiance to being pigeonholed/indiscriminately categorized on the basis of subjective observation. Emotions are intimate to the user, as is the thought process that decides how/when to implement them...

As such, it stands to reason that an outside observer will lack the contextual meat necessary to make a detached determination as to why I express emotion the way I choose to.

Absolutely. Also, a person only has how he/she would feel in the same situation to go on, and since their processes are likely different from mine, they're probably not going to react in the same way that I would. I find it pretty condescending to be told by someone (or even have it implied) that they know how I feel, and I'm just repressing it.

 

[Salomé]

A conscious fight to maintain "rationality" and push down feeling is ALWAYS a signifier of unresolved major personal issues. ALWAYS.
Note: I have personal experience here.

If this is not just personal opinion, please cite your sources.

An emotionally intelligent, empathetic person will sometimes understand what an emotionally unintelligent person is feeling before, or better than that person does, or will.

This can be true. IME.

Do you think by virtue of being a feeler you are more emotionally intelligent? Do you think you are less intellectually intelligent as a feeler?
I do not think so. Preference =/= ability.

Neglected muscles atrophy.

This is what I mean about feeler overconfidence in diagnosing others' feelings ! Sometimes common sense is a better guide than spidey senses.

LOL!

 

[JocktheMotie]

I just think it's a matter of how our cognitive processes work. While NTs that aren't fooling themselves will admit to having "feelings" and emotion, it just doesn't really factor in to our decision making or behavioral framework at all. We don't really consider them important when it comes to making a decision or examining a situation.

If an NT says "I don't really have feelings" I think he is just trying to insist "they're there, but irrelevant, so there's no point explaining to you the distinction."

But yes, NFs do seem to want to see emotions follow their course in everybody as they do themselves. Which is fine, because that's how you work. But feelings don't play the same role with NTs as they do NFs, so what Stigmatic is saying is essentially true, in my opinion.

 

[redacted]

It is fear. They need to believe others have deep wells of repressed emotion because they can then appraise themselves healthy for dealing with theirs. The thinker's common low regard for feeling - the forte of the NF - is insulting to the feeler unless they see it as pathology. It is a selfish will to power, no matter how much they couch it in concern for "the health" of the thinker.

Interesting point, and certainly true for many NFs.

But we are talking about assessments about other people's emotional depths or lack thereof, where the FPs are super-confident in their ability to tell you how you feel and how you deal with feelings better than you are, and therefore ascribe pathology if you say they are wrong. Why the need to see pathology? Let's probe the feelers on this. Because they are more often wrong on diagnosing me than thinkers are.

If they consistently project, and project wrongly, then it's probably for the reasons you cited above.

If this is not just personal opinion, please cite your sources.

Sorry, I can't exactly cite personal observations.

I will tell you that I essentially spend 5+ hours a day, if not longer (and have consciously for at least 6 years) thinking about/systematizing/discussing other people's feelings and motivations. Not that this is necessarily reason to believe me...but I bet I've spent a lot more time thinking about it than most people.

I don't go around telling people they're traumatized, either. Sometimes I'll bring something like this up after getting to know someone really well, but only if I know I'm right (they've alluded to things, etc.)

 

[Sunshine]

Your observations contrast with mine.
Do you listen when NTs talk about their experiences with feelings? What do you think about the fact that so many do not agree with your description? Do you believe you know them better than they know themselves?

That's irrelevant if you know a T type really well and have actually observed them supress/deny emotions. When someone is shouting and throwing things and the veins on their neck are popping and you say, "Why are you so angry?" and they say "What? I'm not angry." denial is happening.

Just to be clear my point is not that Ts always deny their emotions, it's just that sometimes some do. But sometimes we all do.

And you're a T so you want the truth right? I also think that Fs do, overall, if even slightly, have an easier time dealing with their emotions (just like Ts have an easier time stringing together a logical argument for a debate) because Fs are not so concerned with things always being logical. Emotions are often not logical at all. They're there. They happen. Sometimes they come out of nowhere and have no apparent souce. They don't always make sense.

 

[A Schnitzel]

Anywho, I think you guys are all missing the big picture here.

And that would be that it would me much better if you all came over to my house for a hot tub party instead of arguing back and forth in this thread.

What kind of booze do you have?

 

[Sunshine]

Anywho, I think you guys are all missing the big picture here.

And that would be that it would me much more fun if you all came over to my house for a hot tub party instead of hanging out in this thread.

=P =P =P

 

[Jack Flak]

Anywho, I think you guys are all missing the big picture here.

And that would be that it would me much more fun if you all came over to my house for a hot tub party instead of hanging out in this thread.

=P =P =P

That's sensor thinking if I've ever heard it.

 

[Samurai Drifter]

Get my feelings hurt at being called cold-hearted? Hahahaha.

 

[Jack Flak]

I kinda feel hurt if someone thinks I'm INFP.

 

[Sunshine]

Get my feelings hurt at being called cold-hearted? Hahahaha.

Is that because it's true? Or because it's not true? Or does the truth or lack of truth in it have nothing to do with it? Oh wait it's probably just because you don't value warm-heartedness. I'm still curious if truth or lack of truth matters though.

EDIT! I was assuming it doesn't bother you at all but you just said that it doesn't hurt you. Does it affect you in a negative way sometimes?

 

[Stigmatic]

neglected muscles atrophy

This is true, but a feeler may well use thinking enough to not be thought as neglecting the function, and vice versa. Muscles may atrophy, but what I am getting at is the assumption that the muscles are atrophied when the outward show does not match what a feeler calculates how you must feel.

If an NT says "I don't really have feelings" I think he is just trying to insist "they're there, but irrelevant, so there's no point explaining to you the distinction."

It translates to "I don't have any feelings worth talking about." It is rare to hear that bald statement, "I have no feelings". What I hear more is "I don't have strong feelings." Anyone making the former statement invites ridicule.

That's irrelevant if you know a T type really well and have actually observed them supress/deny emotions.

your subjective observation, of course. But it is very relevant if you don't know the thinker, as in the case of communities. It seems that NFs will have their reactions by any means. If you do not respond to the first stimulus, the will have it by henpecking your lack of reaction.

And you're a T so you want the truth right? I also think that Fs do, overall, if even slightly, have an easier time dealing with their emotions (just like Ts have an easier time stringing together a logical argument for a debate) because Fs are not so concerned with things always being logical. Emotions are often not logical at all. They're there. They happen. Sometimes they come out of nowhere and have no apparent souce. They don't always make sense.

I certainly agree that Fs are more comfortable in the realm of their emotions - recognizing and classifying them. Many, though not all, are better with dealing with them as they arise. What I was curious about is where they extend this facility to presume to know how others - sometimes strangers - are feeling and insist on trauma or repression if the evidence does not match their assumptions.

Thank you Evan and other feelers for taking a shot at an explanation from the source.